MS: Sony has failed to deliver on promises

[popisdead uk]

It's amusing to see the quick Sony defense in this thread. I'm not sure what you're defending though, this guy is pretty much spot-on in everything he said.

I don't know about you, but I don't think it's okay to promise some amazing new feature or whatever and expect people to wait for years on end. Their competition has already been there for years now on many of those items. What is the hold up?

Nobody is defending the delays.

[BajiRav]

What?

The only delays consumers experience are ones that affect us after release/purchase.

How am I affected by any delay prior to the launch of the PS3 unless the actual launch itself is delayed? :/

And if you're going to comment on them launching last/not first, they did so with the PS1 (Saturn) and the PS2 (Dreamcast) as well.

You're really grasping at straws with that comment I think.

What? :wacko: I am not grasping any straws, but just pointing that what MS saying here might be borderline rhetoric but you can't deny that it is 100% truth.

Sony's history of delays with ps3 is well known and probably well documented on Neowin as well :rofl: . Who gives a **** about consumer experience...gamers who wanted to play ps3 had to wait because of the delay and then even after it came out, it had many things lacking from what was promised by sony or more particularly ken kutaragi.

I did not wish to point at who launched first or whatever...don't know how you got that impression.

[spenser.d]

Oh great - the boys are back to their old "finger pointing" and "bad mouhing" tricks again. Sone did it, now MS are doing it.

Who gives a damn? You only stoop to such levels when you run out of ideas how to market your own console!

I think you'll find you're wrong, as I doubt MS is out of ideas in the marketing sector. He's not badmouthing per se, he's pointing out a bunch of things that happen to be true.

-Spenser

[Sethos]

Nobody is defending the delays.

:rofl:

[popisdead uk]

Seems this post is full of the 'usual' bunch.

360 FTW. Its the bestest console ever. Sony sucks. 360 fanboys win (what? No idea).

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

It's amusing to see the quick Sony defense in this thread. I'm not sure what you're defending though, this guy is pretty much spot-on in everything he said.

I don't know about you, but I don't think it's okay to promise some amazing new feature or whatever and expect people to wait for years on end. Their competition has already been there for years now on many of those items. What is the hold up?

Putting "everyone" into either one of these categories

a) Sony Defence

or

b) Sony critics who agree will all

Is a little shallow.

Many of us will realise what is being poked at here, however we don't necessarily have to share the ruthless view on offer.

I don't think you can defend a delay as such - Well if something isn't ready it needs a delay, I mean if Home launched and it underwhelmed, what would be worse for Sony?

Everyone attacking the service, or some grumbles and moans about a delay to make it better?

However any delay, is going to frustrate, since if a date is put down you have faith in that date - If date's keep getting changed, you begin to lose faith. DNF theory :laugh:

Time is in their favour (Sony), which is why I don't feel the need to be as hostile towards them this early. As time ticks on, my view will change - And I mean TICK ON, 1 year into a 10 year cycle as I said above, isn't disastrous in light of how the console is actually selling, and the features we do have on our plates.

Some of you make it sound like the PS3 can't operate just now due to what's missing - It can operate just fine, just not to it's full potential yet.

And I now know everyone is going to say "but when will it hit it's full potential?!!?" - I don't know, I guess you could say the target of full potential is always one you'll be chasing as you're always looking to improve, but to stick with this topic, I believe Sony need to roll out the bulk of what's still missing in 2008, and perfect any niggles by mid-2009 and I think they will.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Audioboxer

[dysmatik]

:huh:

[magik]

Seems this post is full of the 'usual' bunch.

360 FTW. Its the bestest console ever. Sony sucks. 360 fanboys win (what? No idea).

Wow, way to kill the thread. If you don't like the discussion, just leave it be. Nobody is forcing you to 'talk'. :no:

[spenser.d]

Seems this post is full of the 'usual' bunch.

360 FTW. Its the bestest console ever. Sony sucks. 360 fanboys win (what? No idea).

If you don't like what you see, you can feel free to leave at any time. We're not stopping you, nor would we be sad to see you go.

-Spenser

[BajiRav]

Some of you make it sound like the PS3 can't operate just now due to what's missing - It can operate just fine, just not to it's full potential yet.

At least me (and probably magik/strifler6478/HawkMan too) are making a point that MS isn't necessarily lying here..badmouthing yes...but what they are saying is correct.

[SnowRanger13]

I've seen people saying 19 million for the Xbox, which would mean the PS3 was at 14 million, which I doubt very much.

19 Million Xbox 360 and 13 Million Playstation 3 is the most current numbers.

[Smigit]

What matters is where you're at at the end of the race - Sony harp on about their 10 year cycle, and so far they're the only ones who do so, and the only ones who have kept to it for each generation (PS2 is nearing 10 years now).

I don't see a 10 year cycle as a plus and theres other that believe such a strategy only holds Sony back. I think five or six years is fine for a console release, maybe seven tops but look how far systems have come in two decades and I think it's not really that great a move to aim for overly long cycles on a single platform. If they had dampened PS2 sales earlier then perhaps the PS3 would be in a better position now. Not saying it's in a bad position, but given the fact theres few exclusives on there currently it may have been better for some of the better titles such as the God of War sequal or whatever to have come out a bit later but hit the PS3 instead.

Anyway just thinking about that 10 year cycle. Doom 1 isnt even 20 years old so I'd hate to think Sony has plans to realistically support consoles for a full ten years. I know that doesnt mean they will release on every ten years but rather will support them with titles ect into the generation after, but still it's too long in this industry.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

At least me (and probably magik/strifler6478/HawkMan too) are making a point that MS isn't necessarily lying here..badmouthing yes...but what they are saying is correct.

It's pretty obvious they aren't "lying" as such, so what we're really discussing is how big an impact this has made for Sony so far, and how much of an impact could it make if things don't change.

That is where most of the debating is done.

[popisdead uk]

If you don't like what you see, you can feel free to leave at any time. We're not stopping you, nor would we be sad to see you go.

-Spenser

Getting personal for laughs now, eh? I will stay as long as I want, and take part. As far as I was aware the rules stated no flamebaiting, trolling and personal attacks? Seems to me you are guilty of at least 2 of those (not just in this thread).

I think that (as per usual) you are jumping on the 'hate Sony' bandwagon with no good reason. I find it quite pathetic if I'm being honest.

You clearly dont like the PS3 and Sony yet are compelled to post in the Sony section, why? Flamebaiting per chance?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

19 Million Xbox 360 and 13 Million Playstation 3 is the most current numbers.

That then makes the gap 6 million, and MS are reporting 5 million in this recent article - That is what is causing the confusion.

Someone is wrong.

[Osiris]

Doesnt this article itself really only lend itself to fanboys?

I mean I only just recently purchased a console.

I began with a near certainty of purchase a 360 and ended up with a PS3 for a variety of reasons.

Now im pretty technologically minded and keep up to date on tech news and I didnt know and couldn't have cared less about what Sony promised or whats coming. What's coming in terms of games and whats in the box right then and there in the store is what counts for me.

The point being regular consumers, much like myself, won't know/care what was promised or meant to be, it all comes down to the usual, value for money, hardware, uses and personal preferences etc.

[BajiRav]

That then makes the gap 6 million, and MS are reporting 5 million in this recent article - That is what is causing the confusion.

Someone is wrong.

May be the 5million is an approximation?

[Ricardo Gil]

Seems this post is full of the 'usual' bunch.

360 FTW. Its the bestest console ever. Sony sucks. 360 fanboys win (what? No idea).

Dude, just stop it. Saying (or even better, admitting) Sony f***** up when it comes to over promising has nothing to do with the competition.

It looks like you have some issues with either Microsoft or the 360 itself.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I don't see a 10 year cycle as a plus and theres other that believe such a strategy only holds Sony back. I think five or six years is fine for a console release, maybe seven tops but look how far systems have come in two decades and I think it's not really that great a move to aim for overly long cycles on a single platform. If they had dampened PS2 sales earlier then perhaps the PS3 would be in a better position now. Not saying it's in a bad position, but given the fact theres few exclusives on there currently it may have been better for some of the better titles such as the God of War sequal or whatever to have come out a bit later but hit the PS3 instead.

Anyway just thinking about that 10 year cycle. Doom 1 isnt even 20 years old so I'd hate to think Sony has plans to realistically support consoles for a full ten years. I know that doesnt mean they will release on every ten years but rather will support them with titles ect into the generation after, but still it's too long in this industry.

What happens is Sony have released the next console 5 years into the lifespan, but continued to support the old one for 10 years.

PS2 came out 5 years into PS1's life, PS3 came out 5 years into PS2's life.

It's the perfect setup, it's a fact not everyone jumps ship to the next console right away - I mean there is 127 million PS2 owners just now, taking the Wii, 360 AND PS3, we're not even at 127 million., quite far off infact.

What you don't want is a new console coming out, and support for your old console going right down the pan almost instantly.

I can see no wrong in having a 10 year life cycle, in terms of ambition and actually carrying out the plan.

[spenser.d]

Getting personal for laughs now, eh? I will stay as long as I want, and take part. As far as I was aware the rules stated no flamebaiting, trolling and personal attacks? Seems to me you are guilty of at least 2 of those (not just in this thread).

I think that (as per usual) you are jumping on the 'hate Sony' bandwagon with no good reason. I find it quite pathetic if I'm being honest.

You clearly dont like the PS3 and Sony yet are compelled to post in the Sony section, why? Flamebaiting per chance?

I've done neither and you shouldn't start accusing people of it. It's not a personal attack - nobody would be sad to see you (or most other people) go. It's just the internet. And I don't hate Sony. They're a fine company, but they've failed on so many promises that it's hard to care about them. Not to mention I'm more than happy with my 360. I have played the PS3 and it's a fun machine, but not worth my money.

You staying here is fine, but if you choose to do so, knowing the situation, than there's no reason for you to be complaining about it, as it's always been that way. You're the only one flamebaiting here because you're the only one being accusatory of other people here.

I know the rules here like the back of my hand. You weren't around for the debacle in December where a bunch of us prominent posters who post far more relevantly than you have were restricted for two weeks. I know the limits, and perhaps I'm pushing them, but again, it's just the internet.

-Spenser

[popisdead uk]

Dude, just stop it. Saying (or even better, admitting) Sony f***** up when it comes to over promising has nothing to do with the competition.

It looks like you have some issues with either Microsoft or the 360 itself.

Sony have promised things and not delivered, not once has anybody (myself included) said otherwise.

I own a 360, and many, many Microsoft products. I have no issues with them (apart from the 6 360's that have broken on me!). I just don't see why so many people jump onto the 'hate Sony' bandwagon.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

May be the 5million is an approximation?

You're guessing that it's an appox figure then, there is no indication at it being approx 5 million in the article - He clearly says 5, not around 5, just over 5, or just under 5.

Obviously in terms of the EXACT figure, I doubt it was 5,000,000 at the time of the article.

[BajiRav]

You're guessing that it's an appox figure then, there is no indication at it being approx 5 million in the article - He clearly says 5, not around 5, just over 5, or just under 5.

Obviously in terms of the EXACT figure, I doubt it was 5,000,000 at the time of the article.

Audio..that reasoning is just plain stupid...

[Sethos]

You're guessing that it's an appox figure then, there is no indication at it being approx 5 million in the article - He clearly says 5, not around 5, just over 5, or just under 5.

Obviously in terms of the EXACT figure, I doubt it was 5,000,000 at the time of the article.

Seriously Audio, that has to be the most pathetic point I've seen you argue on Neowin to date :laugh:

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Doesnt this article itself really only lend itself to fanboys?

I mean I only just recently purchased a console.

I began with a near certainty of purchase a 360 and ended up with a PS3 for a variety of reasons.

Now im pretty technologically minded and keep up to date on tech news and I didnt know and couldn't have cared less about what Sony promised or whats coming. What's coming in terms of games and whats in the box right then and there in the store is what counts for me.

The point being regular consumers, much like myself, won't know/care what was promised or meant to be, it all comes down to the usual, value for money, hardware, uses and personal preferences etc.

The article is showing the nitty gritty world of competition these corporations are taking part in, and it also shows why the gaming world right now is a very hostile place.

While things said in these articles hold truths, they way they are usually put across ensures they come across as smack talk to the group/supporters they are pointed at, and to those backing the article, it seems like cold hard truth.

It's a shame the thread is going down the pan again, I just hope the mods can see everything I've posted is respectful, and everyone who has replied to me, is just having a debate/conversation - I've not felt victimized or hard done at all in here.

Seriously Audio, that has to be the most pathetic point I've seen you argue on Neowin to date :laugh:

Well what does 5million mean?

It means 5 million to me, therefore if MS have sold 19, Sony have sold 14.

If it doesn't add up like that, SOMEONE isn't telling the truth.

I said clearly WHY I brought up the 5mil issue, and that is because over the web right now we've seen claims of a 6mil+ gap, sometimes more - MS have now said it's 5, so that is more credible than all the estimates we have on places like VGChartz (Their gap is 6.5 mil).