MS: Sony has failed to deliver on promises

[shakey]

And what area would that be?

As for the 'other' two being more important? Please

am i actually wrong???? a console needing plenty of games, and out of those games, having most of them good, to be considered a good console?? do we live in bizarro world now where a console with crap games, crap selection, will win?? Seriously, have i gone that retarded?

The 1 area the ps3 has right now, is that the console isnt breaking on anyone. As far as games, its selection is very poor, and the performance of most of those games, when compared to their others, are sub par. So yes, in the main parts where a console counts, the ps3 isnt showing it. MS has a console that breaks down constantly to people, yet their library of games is huuuuge already, and out of that library, there are many many great games. Hence why the 360 is doing so well with what would normally be considered a crappy console.. so i must ask again, am i just retarded in my view of what a good console is? screw movies, screw internet, its about the games and gameplay and if the console will do it.

[popisdead uk]

It does seem a little odd if we don't have any real financial incentives to see sales, but that is pretty much the only way to determine the 'winner' in the console war. How else are we supposed to quantify it?

Its going to be tough though. With all 3 of this generation consoles launching at different times, the sales figures are not going to be easy to determine the 'winner' (between the PS3 and 360). The Wii is clearly the 'winner', but its a god damn awful console so, again not the best way to determine.

Looking at the PS3 sales, they are above that of the PS2 at this point and similar to the 360 so its not doing badly? Personally I can't see the PS3 coming anywhere but top of the sales.

am i actually wrong???? a console needing plenty of games, and out of those games, having most of them good, to be considered a good console?? do we live in bizarro world now where a console with crap games, crap selection, will win?? Seriously, have i gone that retarded?

The 1 area the ps3 has right now, is that the console isnt breaking on anyone. As far as games, its selection is very poor, and the performance of most of those games, when compared to their others, are sub par. So yes, in the main parts where a console counts, the ps3 isnt showing it. MS has a console that breaks down constantly to people, yet their library of games is huuuuge already, and out of that library, there are many many great games. Hence why the 360 is doing so well with what would normally be considered a crappy console.. so i must ask again, am i just retarded in my view of what a good console is? screw movies, screw internet, its about the games and gameplay and if the console will do it.

The Ps3 doesn't have a crap selection of games. It has as many crap games as any console would at this point in its life cycle as well. Why do you think it does?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Its going to be tough though. With all 3 of this generation consoles launching at different times, the sales figures are not going to be easy to determine the 'winner' (between the PS3 and 360). The Wii is clearly the 'winner', but its a god damn awful console so, again not the best way to determine.

Looking at the PS3 sales, they are above that of the PS2 at this point and similar to the 360 so its not doing badly? Personally I can't see the PS3 coming anywhere but top of the sales.

No ones the winner till the end.

The end being the point in which each console is dead as a doorstop.

The Wii may be firing through sales just now, but if Sony reach their 10 year cycle with the PS3, even with selling less than the Wii monthly at the moment, they could beat Nintendo with stamina.

Hare and tortoise syndrome :p

I really don't see the Wii kicking about like it is now in 8-10 years time - Happy to be proven wrong, but I think HD will be to much of the norm then, and Nintendo will want to go HD before 8 years time with a device that replaces the Wii, not runs alongside the Wii (Like the PS4 will do to PS3, or Xbox 3 will do to 360, or like the PS2 has done to the PS3).

Not future proofing your console as best as you can for release is a risky choice (this generation that is things like disk space, online services, HD, ect) - You may find yourself forced to update your inventory due to a landslide in the market, or big changes in the technical world.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Audioboxer

[ritsuke Veteran]

Even if the PS3 wins out over them it won't have the same lead it had cme the end of the last generation.

Absolutely. I'm very happy with the trend, this generation. Whoever comes in 1st, 2nd, 3rd is only relevant when we are speaking about income. More consoles in the wild = greater, potential audience. In what area they come in 1st, 2nd, 3rd is far more complicated, as you've pointed out and I completely agree with.

(Not directed at you, Smigit :-) ) Yes, place does matter (consoles sold) since it will dictate what games we will potentially get... but it's just a product. Get rid of the damn thing if it's not living up to your expectations. Having an emotional temper tantrum on the internet is not as powerful as taking away your credit card or giving clear, constructive criticism.

Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have taken very different approaches and seem to be illuminating their own stumbles, which will help the industry, in the long term.

Hopefully, they will all learn from each other.

I'm also worried that this will further embed each console maker into a tight niche, which is certainly a double-edged sword for the consumer.

Focus tends to bring higher quality, but continues the wallet pain from having to own every console to get it all.

[magik]

Its going to be tough though. With all 3 of this generation consoles launching at different times, the sales figures are not going to be easy to determine the 'winner' (between the PS3 and 360). The Wii is clearly the 'winner', but its a god damn awful console so, again not the best way to determine.

Looking at the PS3 sales, they are above that of the PS2 at this point and similar to the 360 so its not doing badly? Personally I can't see the PS3 coming anywhere but top of the sales.

Well, I think everyone can safely agree that the Wii is essentially in it's own category as it holds its own niche market.

In that case, the 'winner' could be determined based on hardware sales and software/service profits between the 360 and PS3 exclusively. The reason why you must include software/service profits now is because this generation of consoles is much beyond anything that we have seen previously and now consoles are rated against their 'overall package'. Which is why Blu-Ray is a major selling point for the PS3 and one of the main reasons why I think saying things like "It's a game console, who needs to watch movies on it?" is a moot point. I'm actually very close to a PS3 purchase myself because Blu-Ray is the winning format.

Needless to say, I'm putting 'winner' in quotes because I don't literally mean the winning console as there will be no clear winner, IMO. The 360 may lead in overall profits in the US, but I don't think you'll be able to completely call the PS3 a loser because I think Blu-Ray will eventually come to play a huge role. This is also another reason why Microsoft will be making a huge mistake in not adapting Blu-Ray for the 360 this generation...

I'm getting a bit off topic here, but I think you can see where I'm coming from now.

[popisdead uk]

The US will always be good to the 360.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Funny thing is, he's right.

Totally :yes:

This whole sense of "give it one more year" "this time next year" is BS and as we've seen already, never follows through and it's delay after delay along with the broken promises (N)

[popisdead uk]

Totally :yes:

This whole sense of "give it one more year" "this time next year" is BS and as we've seen already, never follows through and it's delay after delay along with the broken promises (N)

Not 100% true is it. Even Microsoft (yes, really) have told lies that people suck in. :)

So the PS3 has a few titles missing. Its still a damn fine console regardless.

[shakey]

maybe i used the wrong word for the PS3 game selection. POOR was what i meant. When i go into blockbuster, i can walk through about 9-10 shelves of 360 games, but only 4 shelves of ps3 games. And thats for multiple stores. Their library is very small. Its like the n64's release. I would expect something as big as the ps3 to have more games out by now. The selection is very limited, and from that limited selection, most of those games would be better played on the 360, performance wise.

[magik]

Not 100% true is it. Even Microsoft (yes, really) have told lies that people suck in. :)

For example?

[popisdead uk]

maybe i used the wrong word for the PS3 game selection. POOR was what i meant. When i go into blockbuster, i can walk through about 9-10 shelves of 360 games, but only 4 shelves of ps3 games. And thats for multiple stores. Their library is very small. Its like the n64's release. I would expect something as big as the ps3 to have more games out by now. The selection is very limited, and from that limited selection, most of those games would be better played on the 360, performance wise.

Its not been out as long, what do you expect? All the big (non exclusive) games are out on both.

[Scorbing]

Who is Microsoft to critisize Sony on their promises? Microsoft failed on their promises for Vista with WinFS and other things. They have no right to put Sony down.

[popisdead uk]

For example?

God damn you! I'm trying to play TOCA/GRID or whatever its called. :laugh:

I can't link you to any examples right now, but they have. HDMI wasn't needed being one of the top of my head. HDD's not needed being another.

They all do it. I'm not saying that Sony are right to delay, but if its for the best I can wait. I don't want a broken product.

[BajiRav]

God damn you! I'm trying to play TOCA/GRID or whatever its called. :laugh:

I can't link you to any examples right now, but they have. HDMI wasn't needed being one of the top of my head. HDD's not needed being another.

They all do it. I'm not saying that Sony are right to delay, but if its for the best I can wait. I don't want a broken product.

HDMI not needed = true

HDD not needed (except for back-compat/DLC) = true

probably only thing that you can say they lied about is "every controller will be wireless"

[magik]

God damn you! I'm trying to play TOCA/GRID or whatever its called. :laugh:

I can't link you to any examples right now, but they have. HDMI wasn't needed being one of the top of my head. HDD's not needed being another.

They all do it. I'm not saying that Sony are right to delay, but if its for the best I can wait. I don't want a broken product.

HDMI - They said that HDMI was not needed for Hi-Def gaming. Which is true. They also always said that they would support HDMI "when it made sense to do so", and they did.

HDD - Although there are very few exceptions (the only ones I can think of is Football Manager and Final Fantasy), the HDD is really not needed to play other games.

So, no, I don't see the lies there. That is as far as Microsoft's Entertainment division is concerned. Their Windows division is a whole 'nother can of worms of which I'm not including in this specific issue. ;)

[popisdead uk]

HDMI not needed = true

HDD not needed (except for back-compat/DLC) = true

probably only thing that you can say they lied about is "every controller will be wireless"

Most people want DLC, and some game utilise the HDD. Also, having consoles without HDD's could be seen as holding back certain games. Having a HDD is the better solution.

If HDMI isn't needed why have all 360's now got HDMI? MS said they were not brining out an 'Elite' console, then did.

Look, all I'm trying to say is that ALL companies, not just MS and Sony tell fibs to get sales.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Most people want DLC, and some game utilise the HDD. Also, having consoles without HDD's could be seen as holding back certain games. Having a HDD is the better solution.

If HDMI isn't needed why have all 360's now got HDMI? MS said they were not brining out an 'Elite' console, then did.

Look, all I'm trying to say is that ALL companies, not just MS and Sony tell fibs to get sales.

All of the SKU's have HDMI because it's cheaper and more effective for them to be produced, rather than keeping 3 completely different SKU's in production :)

And iirc, they never said the Elite wasn't coming, they stuck to their usual "no comment" tactics, and they'd be right to do so. Saying otherwise would see a slow down in sales and piles of old stock gathering. MS are not the only ones to do this, it happens in all different types of markets, nevermind consoles.

So please, keep drowning while you think of an example where MS lied..

[popisdead uk]

So please, keep drowning while you think of an example where MS lied..

I'm not drowning. If you honestly think they haven't then fine. Judging from your posts its clear you are a big 360 fan, so I don't expect you to see the lies.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I'm not drowning. If you honestly think they haven't then fine. Judging from your posts its clear you are a big 360 fan, so I don't expect you to see the lies.

Seeing as you don't even know me, or been around here long enough, you shouldn't judge at all. I'm a fan of gaming and consoles altogether.

But anyways, that's going off on a tangent, please share the lies, that only you seem to know..

[popisdead uk]

Seeing as you don't even know me, or been around here long enough, you shouldn't judge at all. I'm a fan of gaming and consoles altogether.

But anyways, that's going off on a tangent, please share the lies, that only you seem to know..

You dont have to be posting to be active, its quite easy to search through somebodies posts.

Like I said, if you honestly think that Microsoft are hollier than thou - fine. I'm not here to preach or argue with you. I'm old enough to have been there, seen it, done it and there is NO company on this planet that don't lie. Microsoft are no different.

[magik]

Although it can be argued that Microsoft does lie (if you take the whole company as a whole, that is) it is without a doubt that Sony has the clear track record of repeatedly lying about their console especially. There are numerous examples. Our point (me, DrunknMunky, etc) was that Microsoft really has not lied about anything regarding their console (at least relatively speaking if not anything else), which is the reason why you're struggling to find an example of where they out-right lied about something.

That's all we're saying. If you're going to include Microsoft in the category of 'liars' then show how that is true.

[Ayepecks]

Funny thing is, he's right.

I hate to say it, but I agree.

I may not own a PS3, but I'm always rooting for all the consoles to do well. I'd honestly buy a PS3 if not for all the problems Greenberg mentioned. It has a few games I'm interested in, but everything about it seems so haphazard.

[popisdead uk]

Although it can be argued that Microsoft does lie (if you take the whole company as a whole, that is) it is without a doubt that Sony has the clear track record of repeatedly lying about their console especially. There are numerous examples. Our point (me, DrunknMunky, etc) was that Microsoft really has not lied about anything regarding their console (at least relatively speaking if not anything else), which is the reason why you're struggling to find an example of where they out-right lied about something.

That's all we're saying. If you're going to include Microsoft in the category of 'liars' then show how that is true.

Not struggling, just busy :D

They have and do lie (gaming division). Lets just agree to disagree.

[PiracyX]

Yep, he is right.

[American Ninja]

He is wrong but that is just my opinion.