official Team Fortress 2

[Andre S. Veteran]

It's called FUN, games are entertainment, they're meant to be FUN.

With that kind of reasoning you could justify fishing mini-games in TF2. Hey, if some people find fishing mini-games fun, why not?

Sure games are meant to be fun, that doesn't mean anything that could be considered fun fits any game. Games are built around a core experience which represent 90% of the fun. Other features are welcome as long as they reinforce, not conflict with, the core experience. And my feeling of the item system in TF2 is that it does little to enhance the core gameplay while slightly detracting from it. So, it's a minor annoyance.

The previous system where one obtained only tactically relevant items, through achievements, made a lot more sense.

Yeah there's an objective, but the item window shows up when you die. As such you're useless at that time anyways.

If I respawn in 3 seconds but it takes me 10 seconds to do the cleanup necessary to keep that first dead ringer, that's 7 seconds I wasn't helping my team out, which can be huge. It happened, and it was frustrating. Especially when you've been playing TF2 for more than 2 years and that this sort of thing couldn't happen before.

[maeby]

just bought tf2, installing now. need something to tide me over until cataclysm. i remember sitting at my comp waiting for them to release tfc back in the day, i had a blast with that game, so im really looking forward to playing this

[Ayepecks]

With that kind of reasoning you could justify fishing mini-games in TF2. Hey, if some people find fishing mini-games fun, why not?

Sure games are meant to be fun, that doesn't mean anything that could be considered fun fits any game. Games are built around a core experience which represent 90% of the fun. Other features are welcome as long as they reinforce, not conflict with, the core experience. And my feeling of the item system in TF2 is that it does little to enhance the core gameplay while slightly detracting from it. So, it's a minor annoyance.

The previous system where one obtained only tactically relevant items, through achievements, made a lot more sense.

If I respawn in 3 seconds but it takes me 10 seconds to do the cleanup necessary to keep that first dead ringer, that's 7 seconds I wasn't helping my team out, which can be huge. It happened, and it was frustrating. Especially when you've been playing TF2 for more than 2 years and that this sort of thing couldn't happen before.

Fishing mini-games? Stop being asinine. That has no place in a multiplayer first-person shooter. You know what does have a place, though? Customization. And Valve is giving users a chance to customize their characters in exchange for playtime, essentially. I fail to see how hats detract from the core gameplay in any way, shape or form. Can you please enlighten me?

You act like you can't still obtain weapons and achievements. You can. Valve just added item drops by player demand (not everyone has the same opinions as you, ya know). This gives players who maybe aren't as skilled a chance to obtain weapons and other items. And adding a crafting system allows people to get rid of weapons they have multiples of (as well as the forthcoming trading system). Everything you're critiquing has a purpose that disproves your critique, you just don't seem to realize it.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all. I honestly have no clue what you're saying. I've been playing Team Fortress 2 since it was a beta and I don't understand what you're saying. You mean to say you get an item drop and it takes you 10 seconds to click on the "OK" button? Because that should take you half a second to comprehend and either discard if you don't want it, as you claim, or proceed without equipping it. There are three buttons there. You must be pressing the wrong button if I'm comprehending what you say. And guess what -- whenever you earned that weapon through achievements, the same screen came up.

[x-scratch]

my nephew deleted some of my weapons is it possible to get them back from random drops??

such as sandwhich , jarate & sandman, huntmans i think its the bow?

& im not making it up that my nephew deleted it , not really annoyed he did but hate not having them now

[Nagisan]

my nephew deleted some of my weapons is it possible to get them back from random drops??

such as sandwhich , jarate & sandman, huntmans i think its the bow?

& im not making it up that my nephew deleted it , not really annoyed he did but hate not having them now

Yes you can get them through the random drop system. If you absolutely need to get a specific item back, you can look into using duplicates to craft an item, but if you just want 1 of everything, you can wait for them to drop from the random drops.

[x-scratch]

ok cool , as far as randon drops go i have only got 1 thing dropped in 3 days was something for the spy gold stop watch

[Andre S. Veteran]

Fishing mini-games? Stop being asinine. That has no place in a multiplayer first-person shooter.

I am fully expecting you and anyone else to agree with me that a fishing mini-game has no place in TF2, this is precisely why I chose this example, to illustrate my point that a feature cannot be justified solely on the basis that it is fun by itself. But apparently you had missed that.

You know what does have a place, though? Customization. And Valve is giving users a chance to customize their characters in exchange for playtime, essentially. I fail to see how hats detract from the core gameplay in any way, shape or form. Can you please enlighten me?

Exactly for the reason you have so well formulated, because it's "in exchange for playtime". This is basically my point: it's a feature that detracts from the core experience; you can either be playing TF2 or crafting items, the two conflict with each other. It's not a huge problem, just a minor annoyance. But still an annoyance.

You act like you can't still obtain weapons and achievements. Valve just added item drops by player demand (not everyone has the same opinions as you, ya know). This gives players who maybe aren't as skilled a chance to obtain weapons and other items. And adding a crafting system allows people to get rid of weapons they have multiples of (as well as the forthcoming trading system). Everything you're critiquing has a purpose that disproves your critique, you just don't seem to realize it.

I never suggested it was currently impossible to obtain weapons and achivements. It's not the random drops I have a problem with, it's getting multiple times the same item and being forced to do something with all that junk at some point, because the inventory is not infinite. That could not happen with the previous system. I'll illustrate that in the next paragraph.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all. I honestly have no clue what you're saying. I've been playing Team Fortress 2 since it was a beta and I don't understand what you're saying. You mean to say you get an item drop and it takes you 10 seconds to click on the "OK" button? Because that should take you half a second to comprehend and either discard if you don't want it, as you claim, or proceed without equipping it. There are three buttons there. You must be pressing the wrong button if I'm comprehending what you say. And guess what -- whenever you earned that weapon through achievements, the same screen came up.

Aight let's run through this:

"You found Natasha! Keep or discard?" - click keep

"Unfortunately you have no room in your inventory left. Make room for it, or discard?" click make room for it

Find an item in the inventory of which I have multiple copies. Select and click delete

"Are you sure? The item will be destroyed, you can't get it back - Yes no" - click yes

Close inventory, accept Natasha

Yeah 10 seconds is a good estimate. I don't want to accidently delete an item of which I have only one copy. And it's not like this happened once or twice. In a two hour play session I can that expect to happen at least twice. Plus think about the mental context switch. I am trying to understand what the red team is doing and what my team is doing, and while I'm dead I'd rather be exchanging info with my team mates or at least watching an area or a team mate. Instead, I'm doing WoW-style inventory management and item crafting. When I'm done doing that, I've lost focus, I'm going to make mistakes because of that.

I hope that enlightens you. ;)

[mounty]

I'm just tired of all the buzz around something that has zero tactical relevance. In-game people spend more time boasting about how they got the latest pointless item before anyone else than coming up with a plan to take over the enemy base. Also you can't totally ignore the feature because of how the game constantly nags you with new items which you've already got ten times before. When your inventory is full, you have to refuse the new items, with a confirmation dialog, or do some tedious clean up if you want to keep it... Precious lost seconds for the team!

It's not a major annoyance, but still. TF2 used to be more streamlined.

I agree completely and complained about it myself some months ago, and subsequently received nothing but derision. Frankly the more of this pointless guff that Valve add, the more I grow to dislike TF2. I've pretty much lost interest in playing the game at all. It makes me rather angry too as I loved vanilla TF2, by far one of the best FPS I've played in 10 years!

[Ayepecks]

I am fully expecting you and anyone else to agree with me that a fishing mini-game has no place in TF2, this is precisely why I chose this example, to illustrate my point that a feature cannot be justified solely on the basis that it is fun by itself. But apparently you had missed that.

Exactly for the reason you have so well formulated, because it's "in exchange for playtime". This is basically my point: it's a feature that detracts from the core experience; you can either be playing TF2 or crafting items, the two conflict with each other. It's not a huge problem, just a minor annoyance. But still an annoyance.

I never suggested it was currently impossible to obtain weapons and achivements. It's not the random drops I have a problem with, it's getting multiple times the same item and being forced to do something with all that junk at some point, because the inventory is not infinite. That could not happen with the previous system. I'll illustrate that in the next paragraph.

Aight let's run through this:

"You found Natasha! Keep or discard?" - click keep

"Unfortunately you have no room in your inventory left. Make room for it, or discard?" click make room for it

Find an item in the inventory of which I have multiple copies. Select and click delete

"Are you sure? The item will be destroyed, you can't get it back - Yes no" - click yes

Close inventory, accept Natasha

Yeah 10 seconds is a good estimate. I don't want to accidently delete an item of which I have only one copy. And it's not like this happened once or twice. In a two hour play session I can that expect to happen at least twice. Plus think about the mental context switch. I am trying to understand what the red team is doing and what my team is doing, and while I'm dead I'd rather be exchanging info with my team mates or at least watching an area or a team mate. Instead, I'm doing WoW-style inventory management and item crafting. When I'm done doing that, I've lost focus, I'm going to make mistakes because of that.

I hope that enlightens you. ;)

I'm well aware what you meant to do. But you're arguing semantics when you argue that a game is supposed to be fun. You knew what he meant, so don't try to be cute, because it makes no sense. I was well aware of what you were trying to do. That doesn't make it any better of a comparison, as what you were comparing to made absolutely no sense given the context of the discussion. Nice try, though.

Please don't act like crafting items takes a great deal of time. Either you're playing dumb or you truly are that ignorant to assume that crafting items takes away from the actual gameplay experience in the game. Crafting items literally takes seconds, so if your argument is that you're wasting "precious seconds", sorry, but I'm unswayed by your weak rebuttal. The two do not conflict with one another in any way, shape, or form. The option of crafting actually compliments the gameplay, as it gives you a reward for playtime. You clearly missed the point of what I meant when I said "in exchange for playtime." By playing, players are rewarded with item drops. They have to do nothing other than play. You missed the point entirely.

The inventory system is not infinite, no, but if you play enough to actually fill up your inventory, I have a hard time imagining that you don't already have all the weapons. If that is the case, then you don't have to clean out your inventory, all you have to do is discard item drops. Given that there are four pages of inventory, I have a hard time imagining most players filling it up. You'd have to play hundreds of hours, if not close to a thousand, to fill it up, I'd imagine.

Tell me: if this has happened to you two or more times, why do you not simply clean out your inventory of multiple items? If that is really the case, you would have over two pages of inventory left -- probably closer to three, if I remember correctly. I'm sorry, but I don't but that this has actually happened to you as often as you claim -- what's your Steam ID? Your argument is trivial in that you complain of a process that literally takes you a few seconds, maximum, to deal with out of months of playtime, as you will probably rarely have to actually utilize your inventory if you don't want to.

[Lewism]

I have all the weapons available and it only takes the first page of items when it's sorted properly. I can use the 2nd page to craft any leftover items.

http://www.tf2items.com/id/lewism8

Once it's sorted, it takes 2 second to craft your new duplicate

And I got the Trippler's Tricorne earlier today!

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I don't see a Bonk :p

[Fid]

Alright guys... a question (having gotten back into TF2).

For a medic, which is better... the normal medi gun or the kritzkrieg?

See - I'd have thought the KK would be better being the newer weapon, but it only grants 100% crits... whereas I always think having a short period of invulnerability is much better? Certainly if you're healing a heavy and have 100% ubercharge so you can both go running and gunning in.

However last night while playing on a server, one of the clan members was asking if I could use the KK.

So... which is better in most cases? Or are there situations on when to use the medi and when to use the KK?

Sorry if this is a really obvious and stupid question!

Cheers!

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

It's situational, some situations will need the Kritzkreig, others will need the Medigun.

[D!ABOL!C]

It's situational, some situations will need the Kritzkreig, others will need the Medigun.

To add to that, it also depends on your play style as well.

I pretty much play D-Bowl only maps, so I use the medigun on offense and the kritzkrieg on defense. The key to either of course is your team mates. You could get ubers and kritzkriegs all day long, but if you don't have at least one teammate capable of doing any damage with it, it they can both be worthless.

I will say though, kritzing a heavy right when he turns a corner and he mows down 6 to 8 people... Oh man the awesomeness.

[Nagisan]

I have all the weapons available and it only takes the first page of items when it's sorted properly. I can use the 2nd page to craft any leftover items.

http://www.tf2items.com/id/lewism8

Once it's sorted, it takes 2 second to craft your new duplicate

And I got the Trippler's Tricorne earlier today!

I prefer to put items I want to keep on the 2nd page, that way when I get duplicate items, they appear on the first page together without sorting or anything. I then have to simply identify 2 items from the same class on one of the first 2 crafting pages.

Alright guys... a question (having gotten back into TF2).

For a medic, which is better... the normal medi gun or the kritzkrieg?

See - I'd have thought the KK would be better being the newer weapon, but it only grants 100% crits... whereas I always think having a short period of invulnerability is much better? Certainly if you're healing a heavy and have 100% ubercharge so you can both go running and gunning in.

However last night while playing on a server, one of the clan members was asking if I could use the KK.

So... which is better in most cases? Or are there situations on when to use the medi and when to use the KK?

Sorry if this is a really obvious and stupid question!

Cheers!

As others have said, its situational. Ubers are generally more useful on offense, while Kritz are generally more useful on defense. A well-placed kritz though can be extremely useful even on offense, same with an uber on defense.

Also, do not think of unlock weapons as better. Weapons are generally designed to be sidegrades, which means depending on the situation, one is better than the other.

For example, the Force-a-Nature. Compared to the Scattergun, it is a horrible combat weapon for a scout. It has good mobility and good killing potential if you land both shots at close range, but against multiple people or even an aware person, the scattergun is almost always better, yet the FaN is much newer.

In TF2, newer does NOT mean better, it simply means a slightly different way to use the class (if the weapon was designed properly).

And to everyone else, quit whining about it taking too long to craft some items that you do not care about. How about this, before you join your favorite server tonight, take 2 minutes to craft ALL your duplicates. Now, play for the next 6-7 weeks just accepting all weapons in 2 seconds well before you respawn.

Once you are full again, take another 2 minutes before or after you play to craft all those duplicates.

[Fid]

To add to that, it also depends on your play style as well.

I pretty much play D-Bowl only maps, so I use the medigun on offense and the kritzkrieg on defense. The key to either of course is your team mates. You could get ubers and kritzkriegs all day long, but if you don't have at least one teammate capable of doing any damage with it, it they can both be worthless.

I will say though, kritzing a heavy right when he turns a corner and he mows down 6 to 8 people... Oh man the awesomeness.

Ah, this makes sense.

At the moment I'm playing the Orange maps, absolutely love them right now.

I see the point about 'sideways' upgrades, very helpful Nagisan, thanks.

Yay, can't wait to get home and play more TF2 now! :D Cheers all!

[Andre S. Veteran]

I'm well aware what you meant to do. But you're arguing semantics when you argue that a game is supposed to be fun. You knew what he meant, so don't try to be cute, because it makes no sense. I was well aware of what you were trying to do. That doesn't make it any better of a comparison, as what you were comparing to made absolutely no sense given the context of the discussion. Nice try, though.

I explained why it made sense, you didn't explain why it wouldn't.

Please don't act like crafting items takes a great deal of time. Either you're playing dumb or you truly are that ignorant to assume that crafting items takes away from the actual gameplay experience in the game. Crafting items literally takes seconds, so if your argument is that you're wasting "precious seconds", sorry, but I'm unswayed by your weak rebuttal. The two do not conflict with one another in any way, shape, or form. The option of crafting actually compliments the gameplay, as it gives you a reward for playtime. You clearly missed the point of what I meant when I said "in exchange for playtime." By playing, players are rewarded with item drops. They have to do nothing other than play. You missed the point entirely.

It takes time I could be focusing on what will I do when I respawn. If the respawn time is shorter than the time needed to get rid of all the nag screens (as illustrated previously), it actually makes me sit idle in the spawn for a few seconds. Besides, the new system doesn't reward playing the game, technically, it just rewards being in a game for enough time. People are encouraged to sit AFK while they go do something else because they might get an item during that time. When the system was based on achievements, it gave players an additional incentive to play different classes and maps and be useful to their team. Plus again you would only receive meaningful items.

Hats are a reward if you actually care about hats. For those who don't, it's a minor annoyance.

The inventory system is not infinite, no, but if you play enough to actually fill up your inventory, I have a hard time imagining that you don't already have all the weapons. If that is the case, then you don't have to clean out your inventory, all you have to do is discard item drops. Given that there are four pages of inventory, I have a hard time imagining most players filling it up. You'd have to play hundreds of hours, if not close to a thousand, to fill it up, I'd imagine.

I must have played 80-100 hours since the new drop system was devised and that was enough to fill it up. I would sometimes get 8 items in a single drop. I saw players get more than that.

Tell me: if this has happened to you two or more times, why do you not simply clean out your inventory of multiple items? If that is really the case, you would have over two pages of inventory left -- probably closer to three, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, that's what I do now. A one-minute marathon of item-deleting every few weeks. Is it fun? No. That's why I'm calling it a minor annoyance, and that's why I think the previous system was better.

[Ayepecks]

Ugh, there's no point even continuing this discussion any further because you're so bent on proving your red herring fallacy has a point that you're missing the point. You never argued why adding a fishing game made sense, so don't try and further your fallacy, please. You tried to use a silly comparison to show that hats in this game are silly, yet you seem to miss the point that customization is a big feature in many games. A fishing game is not. And for good reason. Just drop it and discuss the actual issue at hand.

You readily admit that it's a "minor annoyance," at worst, and you act as if it's causing you some great deal of pain and suffering by having to discard items. Tell me: if it is such an annoyance to you, why do you not simply clean out your inventory once and then discard every single item that comes your way through drops? If you do this, then you will have no duplicates, and you can obtain the weapons through achievements as I'm sure you already have. Why are you even accepting these items, however, if you don't want them? All you have to do is click "discard." It takes, at most, one second. Given that the majority of servers have respawn times, as is the default in Team Fortress 2, it won't affect your gameplay one iota.

You're being nitpicky and acting like this is a major issue for you. It takes a second out of your gameplay time every hour if you click discard every time. A valuable second! Man, you could have moved the game's equivalent of a few meters in that precious second! You could have glanced to your right -- or better yet, your left -- with that second!

The eight items in a single drop was a glitch when Valve was testing the system. That is not commonplace, and it occurred for a few hours one time. Don't act as if that is a regular occurrence.

[Andre S. Veteran]

All I said in the beginning was that it's a minor annoyance for reason A and B, yet that seems to **** off some people so much that they have to quote me on every statement I made to try and disprove what I said. It's not because I answer back that I'm suddenly considering the issue a major annoyance, it's just that the discussion takes such grand proportion that it looks like we're discussing a major issue. Is it futile? Yeah just as much as those stupid hats. :laugh:

You still missed the point of my comparison though. I wasn't using it to show hats are a silly feature. I was using it to counter the argument that hats are a good feature because a lot of people find them fun. I was showing that such an argument is weak and insufficient because it could be used to justify fishing mini-games. It didn't demonstrate the silliness of hats, it demonstrated the weakness of my opponent's rebuttal. And as such it was a valid argument. You're on the defensive because my disliking of hats ****es you off, so you interpret everything I say like a direct attack, causing you to miss the point. You keep saying "Don't act like you're saying..." when I'm not implying anything, I said what I explicitly said and it doesn't go any further than that.

I happen to still play a LOT of TF2 and I still consider it the greatest fps one can play online. I'm just slightly annoyed by the new drop/item crafting system, which slightly takes away from the cooperative-based nature of the game towards an individual development-based play. That's all.

[Ayepecks]

All I said in the beginning was that it's a minor annoyance for reason A and B, yet that seems to **** off some people so much that they have to quote me on every statement I made to try and disprove what I said. It's not because I answer back that I'm suddenly considering the issue a major annoyance, it's just that the discussion takes such grand proportion that it looks like we're discussing a major issue. Is it futile? Yeah just as much as those stupid hats. :laugh:

You still missed the point of my comparison though. I wasn't using it to show hats are a silly feature. I was using it to counter the argument that hats are a good feature because a lot of people find them fun. I was showing that such an argument is weak and insufficient because it could be used to justify fishing mini-games. It didn't demonstrate the silliness of hats, it demonstrated the weakness of my opponent's rebuttal. And as such it was a valid argument. You're on the defensive because my disliking of hats ****es you off, so you interpret everything I say like a direct attack, causing you to miss the point. You keep saying "Don't act like you're saying..." when I'm not implying anything, I said what I explicitly said and it doesn't go any further than that.

I happen to still play a LOT of TF2 and I still consider it the greatest fps one can play online. I'm just slightly annoyed by the new drop/item crafting system, which slightly takes away from the cooperative-based nature of the game towards an individual development-based play. That's all.

I understood the comparison perfectly fine, please don't insult my intelligence. You specifically stated your reasoning for using the analogy in the first post, and even if you hadn't it wouldn't be hard to comprehend. I called it a silly comparison because it is silly that you can even try and correlate the two. Why you are stuck on this horrible analogy that distracts from the discussion is absolutely beyond me. It is not a valid argument because it's absolutely asinine to try and compare the two because "people find it fun." You clearly misunderstood the point of his post and tried to get into an argument over semantics, as I stated from the get-go. His point was Team Fortress 2 players find it fun -- and I very seriously doubt Team Fortress 2 players would find a fishing minigame fun, in-game. If you respond "he said people" or anything along those lines, then I'm not even going to bother responding. You knew what he meant and yet you decided to jump all over the word he chose as the basis of your argument.

Your dislike of hats does not anger me in any way. That is absolutely your right, and I don't think any less of anyone who does or doesn't like hats in the game. What angers me is your absolutely ridiculous argument and the fact that you're clinging to your fallacy because for some reason you think it's a good argument. You could have said "I simply don't like hats because I feel they add nothing to the game," and it would have been infinitely better than your statements thus far.

I'm not taking anything you're saying as a personal attack, I'm not sure where you got that from. What I am taking as offensive is the fact that you honestly expect me or anyone with half a brain to buy your fishing minigame argument.

[Andre S. Veteran]

It is not a valid argument because it's absolutely asinine to try and compare the two because "people find it fun."

Why? You keep saying it's a foolish analogy, yet you don't back that up. It's an obvious, inflated analogy, sure; it's intentionally like that to make sure that no one argues that it could be a good idea. The fishing mini-game is definitely, obviously, a bad idea, and that's why I'm choosing it as an example.

Besides the two don't just share "people find it fun"; they also share "it's a gimmick" and "it detracts from the core experience". They share all the attributes I'm discussing, so it's a very relevant analogy.

His point was Team Fortress 2 players find it fun -- and I very seriously doubt Team Fortress 2 players would find a fishing minigame fun, in-game.

That's your point. If he had said "Team Fortress players find it fun" I simply would have replied that this obviously didn't take players like me into account.

[Ayepecks]

Why? You keep saying it's a foolish analogy, yet you don't back that up. It's an obvious, inflated analogy, sure; it's intentionally like that to make sure that no one argues that it could be a good idea. The fishing mini-game is definitely, obviously, a bad idea, and that's why I'm choosing it as an example.

That's your point. If he had said "Team Fortress players find it fun" I simply would have replied that this obviously didn't take players like me into account.

I have backed up my argument time and time again. I'm not going to go back and quote all my posts for you to see that. You simply choose not to agree with it, which is fine, that's your prerogative... but don't act as though I haven't backed up my point. I'm well aware why you chose the fishing mini-game as an example, as I think everyone who reads your post is capable of figuring out why you chose it. It's not rocket science.

Not every feature is going to be met with 100% satisfaction when you have a community as big as Team Fortress 2. Common sense dictates, however, that Valve would try to please as many players as possible. And the overwhelming response to item drops, hats and the like has been positive. So, yes, they took players like you into account, I'm sure... but they decided they'd rather please the vast majority of players.

[Chasethebase Veteran]

After coming back to this thread and reading the ensuing argument, my head readily hit my desk.

Dr_Asik. That is a stupid thing to even discuss and bring up, this "fishing game" would never find pride and place in TF2, at all. Water's scarce enough as it is in maps, you're more likely to find this in the Sims where it seems like a good addition to that series. The only way fishing has been added so far is through a hat for the Sniper, but if you want a fishing rod to beat people to death with then that's fine.

You're making a huge deal out of a really trivial thing. All you have to do is quickly click 'Discard' and be done with it. No big deal. Other examples of having customisation are Halo (Armour permutations and colours), Call of Duty to an extent (Custom Classes), and a few others. The main thing with TF2 is that it lets you readily change your loadout and get new items during play. This is a bonus because it means say, if you didn't have a Kritzkrieg and you needed it, and you found it. You could equip it and use it and win the game for your team. (Says a Medic who just scored 101, 30+ points ahead of the next scorer with it on Dustbowl 3-2).

Just drop it, you're making useless braindead arguments about a really trivial feature.

----

In other news, I found a Bonk and crafted the Crit-a-Cola. It's ok...I guess.

[Andre S. Veteran]

That is a stupid thing to even discuss and bring up, this "fishing game" would never find pride and place in TF2, at all. Water's scarce enough as it is in maps, you're more likely to find this in the Sims where it seems like a good addition to that series. The only way fishing has been added so far is through a hat for the Sniper, but if you want a fishing rod to beat people to death with then that's fine.

I know. *sigh* You don't get the point, but it's ok, I don't feel like explaining this anymore.

You're making a huge deal out of a really trivial thing. All you have to do is quickly click 'Discard' and be done with it. No big deal. Other examples of having customisation are Halo (Armour permutations and colours), Call of Duty to an extent (Custom Classes), and a few others. The main thing with TF2 is that it lets you readily change your loadout and get new items during play. This is a bonus because it means say, if you didn't have a Kritzkrieg and you needed it, and you found it. You could equip it and use it and win the game for your team. (Says a Medic who just scored 101, 30+ points ahead of the next scorer with it on Dustbowl 3-2).

I never made a huge deal out of it. Just saying it's a minor annoyance.

Not every feature is going to be met with 100% satisfaction when you have a community as big as Team Fortress 2. Common sense dictates, however, that Valve would try to please as many players as possible. And the overwhelming response to item drops, hats and the like has been positive. So, yes, they took players like you into account, I'm sure... but they decided they'd rather please the vast majority of players.

They're also shifting their player base. Those who originally appreciated TF2 for being straightforward are put off by the all the new features. Yeah I suppose there are a lot more people who enjoy gathering hats than people who enjoy a straightforward team-based shooter.

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I installed a new monitor tonight and fired up TF2. For some reason anti-aliasing wasn't working. I turned it up all the way to 8x and still every straight line had very obvious jaggies. Also my HUD had partly disappeared; I didn't see the timer nor the progress bar for the cart (playing goldrush). Anyone has the same issue?

[Nagisan]

I installed a new monitor tonight and fired up TF2. For some reason anti-aliasing wasn't working. I turned it up all the way to 8x and still every straight line had very obvious jaggies. Also my HUD had partly disappeared; I didn't see the timer nor the progress bar for the cart (playing goldrush). Anyone has the same issue?

Odd, have you tried type -autoconfig in your TF2 launch options? It will completely reset all graphical settings and usually fixes issues similar to what your having. A new monitor alone shouldn't cause that issue....even if resolution is changed it should adjust the HUD to fit the new resolution. Did you try restarting TF2 after making the changes? I have noticed that sometimes even changing small things that should have no effect on the HUD will end up causing the HUD to disappear. If it doesn't fix itself on second or third launch or so, try throwing -autoconfig into the launch options, it usually fixes most graphical issues as it re-creates the config file.