official Team Fortress 2

[Guest]

All you have to do is try and do more skillful things as demo/soldier, you will suck at first but eventually you will get better. I played about 200 hours of soldier before I bothered to even try and pull of airshots (Just because I hadn't got into the competitive scene, I just messed around) etc... Now I can do single ones quite regularly, and pull of the odd double one here and there (I find it easier with pipe bombs than rockets actually, eventhough I play soldier in 6v6 :D). The problem with public games is that normally there are too many players for the medics to heal, or the medics just stay on heavies for no apparent reason, even if you are killing everything.

I saw you playing on the specialattack server yesterday and you indeed did some very nice airshots!

It's not something I master yet, but I hope I will eventually! (I have about 120 hours as solly now :))

I also had an amazing score on dustbowl, 26 kills / 0 deaths.

Granary was also going good, 52 kills / 11 deaths :)

[Minimoose]

I saw you playing on the specialattack server yesterday and you indeed did some very nice airshots!

It's not something I master yet, but I hope I will eventually! (I have about 120 hours as solly now :) )

I also had an amazing score on dustbowl, 26 kills / 0 deaths.

Granary was also going good, 52 kills / 11 deaths :)

The medics were healing me then, which was awesome :D I got like 100 points on fastlane with the next score about 40... (Kritzkrieg <3)

[Blackhearted]

So a couple of questions i have:

1. Can i set crosshairs to change based on the class i choose? I mainly ask because i find picking off people as sniper with the little solid dot of xhair #5 much better than the default team color dot. But i only want the dot when on sniper and find it kinda annoying having to constantly switch in the menu.

And 2. I've had a (reasonably rare) crash recently that yells at me with something about "Privileged instruction" or the like. Anyone know what this means and why i'm (occasionally) seeing it?

[Pc_Madness]

And 2. I've had a (reasonably rare) crash recently that yells at me with something about "Privileged instruction" or the like. Anyone know what this means and why i'm (occasionally) seeing it?

I think I may be getting this as well. I presumed it was my graphics card dying somehow but perhaps not. :) ATI 4870. :)

[ViZioN]

And 2. I've had a (reasonably rare) crash recently that yells at me with something about "Privileged instruction" or the like. Anyone know what this means and why i'm (occasionally) seeing it?

Never had that crash yet but I'm starting to get the hl2.exe crash on exit almost every time now :(

[Blackhearted]

I think I may be getting this as well. I presumed it was my graphics card dying somehow but perhaps not. :) ATI 4870. :)

Yea, i don't think it'd be the gpu(a 9600gt in my case). Since apps that put more stress on it have no problem, for me atleast.

[ViZioN]

Has anyone had any problems with their configs? More specifically their mouse controls. I've been having a problem as Demoman when shooting stickies. If I release the left mouse button the sticky doesn't fire but instead it continues charging. I've tried defaulting my controls in options but the problem still persists. Any ideas? :unsure:

[Blackhearted]

Has anyone had any problems with their configs? More specifically their mouse controls. I've been having a problem as Demoman when shooting stickies. If I release the left mouse button the sticky doesn't fire but instead it continues charging. I've tried defaulting my controls in options but the problem still persists. Any ideas? :unsure:

That sounds somewhat similar to something i sometimes see, but not only with my mouse. An annoying little thing where i'll sometimes keep firing (and/or moving) for a second or two even when i have already let off the button. I don't really know what causes it or how to fix it though.

[ViZioN]

That sounds somewhat similar to something i sometimes see, but not only with my mouse. An annoying little thing where i'll sometimes keep firing (and/or moving) for a second or two even when i have already let off the button. I don't really know what causes it or how to fix it though.

Hmm. Yeah I'm a bit stumped too. I'll try deleting my config tomorrow and see if that does anything. I don't think I've modified it at all really from the original but meh :p

[ViZioN]

Updates to Team Fortress 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:

Gameplay changes

• Added a duck timer that prevents duck spamming while running around on-ground
  
• In-air, players are only allowed to duck once before they touch ground again
  
• Fixed several bounding box issues with jumping, falling, and rocket jump air-walking. Bounding box should be much more accurate there now
  
• Increased backstab check so that Spies can side-stab again
  
• When disguising, Spies now always start showing the primary weapon in their disguise, and can then switch it with the last-disguise key
  

TF2 Fixes

• Fixed flamethrower loophole that resulted in the flame effect being stuck on while the flamethrower wasn't really firing
  
• Fixed exploit that allowed players to circumvent the force-fire timeout on the pipebomb launcher
  
• Fixed a bug that caused Natasha's slow on hit effect to be inverted from 75% to 25%
  
• Restored sawmill_logs.mdl file, fixing some user maps that used it
  
• Fixed some localization issues with Scout achievement strings
  
• Removed the "Final" phrasing in the map loading screen
  

Engine fixes

• Fixed a server crash on startup under Linux
  
• Fixed a buffer overflow issue related to network string tables
  
• Gamestats uploading is now done asynchronously. This fixes the client timeout issues on map changes
  

CP_Junction

• Fixed an exploit where engineers could build a teleporter exit in an invalid area
  
• Fixed a few bad overlay assignments and other minor issues
  

[Blackhearted]

• Fixed several bounding box issues with jumping, falling, and rocket jump air-walking. Bounding box should be much more accurate there now
  

So what exactly does that mean? I'm not familar enough with the source engine to know what bounding boxes do.

• Increased backstab check so that Spies can side-stab again
  

Oh boy. As if backstabs need made easier...

• Fixed flamethrower loophole that resulted in the flame effect being stuck on while the flamethrower wasn't really firing
  
• Fixed a bug that caused Natasha's slow on hit effect to be inverted from 75% to 25%
  

Hm. Does that mean natasha is usable now? About time if it is. That flamethrower bug was rather annoying too.

• Gamestats uploading is now done asynchronously. This fixes the client timeout issues on map changes
  

so does this mean my stats will actually update more than once every full moon?

On a related note. I'm surprised they didn't give in and nerf the sandman. Everyone has been crying about it non-stop since the update, even though it's not as bad as they make it seem. I'm not surprised however, that we still have no multicore support.

[Andre S. Veteran]

So what exactly does that mean? I'm not familar enough with the source engine to know what bounding boxes do.

In most game engines, characters are approximated by boxes or spheres to make collision detection much faster. I don't know what kind of issues they fixed but it had something to do with the game approximating the space occupied by characters.

[Nagisan]

So what exactly does that mean? I'm not familar enough with the source engine to know what bounding boxes do.

Bounding boxes is another term for hit boxes....basically, they are what is used to tell if a bullet/projectile collided with the model. This update from the sounds of it means that a falling/jumping characters hit boxes will be more accurate.....which means aimed at the character model, you have a better chance of hitting it than before. If before you hit the edge of a character model, it might not register the hit.....with more accurate hit boxes, that same shot should now register as a hit.

On a related note. I'm surprised they didn't give in and nerf the sandman. Everyone has been crying about it non-stop since the update, even though it's not as bad as they make it seem. I'm not surprised however, that we still have no multicore support.

No kidding.....the sandman though not completely terrible since the scout rush has died down some, it still OP.....its practically impossible to dodge it (this is going by the speed at which it travels and the speed at which a game character can move, and EXCLUDING any factors for lag and human reaction time).....so if a scout has good aim, he can hit virtually any target he wants. Beyond that, at medium range everything but a heavy is stunned long enough to kill.....and even when the heavy comes out of his stun he still has to re-spin his minigun, so he will likely be killed anyway. Its just too powerful for an ambush/hit and run class to have.

[Blackhearted]

Bounding boxes is another term for hit boxes....

Ah. they coulda just used hit/collision boxes then. Would have made more sense.

No kidding.....the sandman though not completely terrible since the scout rush has died down some, it still OP.....its practically impossible to dodge it (this is going by the speed at which it travels and the speed at which a game character can move, and EXCLUDING any factors for lag and human reaction time).....so if a scout has good aim, he can hit virtually any target he wants. Beyond that, at medium range everything but a heavy is stunned long enough to kill.....and even when the heavy comes out of his stun he still has to re-spin his minigun, so he will likely be killed anyway. Its just too powerful for an ambush/hit and run class to have.

I kinda disagree. Depending on the distance most classes, aside from a spun up heavy(and maybe soldier), could dodge it if they see it. Also the stun isn't always long enough to get you a kill against many classes. From my use of it i've found that: most classes with more than 125 hp(or a medic-buffed 125hp class) can survive being stunned at mid range quite often due to travel time to target, switch time to the shotgun, the spread of the shotgun, and of course... this games great(cough) random damage "feature". Of course, this is only referring to the scout alone. If there's say... a sniper behind the scout then yeah, the stunned target is dead. But the same thing goes in reverse too. A stun target that isn't alone is one that you'll die from attacking.

Personally i think it's mostly fine. The fast disappearance of the ball after a hit, as well as the 10 second recharge balance it quite nicely. It(the ball) also does next to no damage itself. And besides, it actually gives the scout a reason to look at his third weapon. As the default bat is next to useless.

[Nagisan]

I kinda disagree. Depending on the distance most classes, aside from a spun up heavy(and maybe soldier), could dodge it if they see it. Also the stun isn't always long enough to get you a kill against many classes. From my use of it i've found that: most classes with more than 125 hp(or a medic-buffed 125hp class) can survive being stunned at mid range quite often due to travel time to target, switch time to the shotgun, the spread of the shotgun, and of course... this games great(cough) random damage "feature". Of course, this is only referring to the scout alone. If there's say... a sniper behind the scout then yeah, the stunned target is dead. But the same thing goes in reverse too. A stun target that isn't alone is one that you'll die from attacking.

Personally i think it's mostly fine. The fast disappearance of the ball after a hit, as well as the 10 second recharge balance it quite nicely. It(the ball) also does next to no damage itself. And besides, it actually gives the scout a reason to look at his third weapon. As the default bat is next to useless.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=816110 (the URL gives exact distances it would take accounting for human reaction time and the speed of the character, excluding latency and character acceleration, so those numbers are a little on the low side).

If you were to add in latency (it already added in human reaction time...missed that the first time I looked at it) it would be pretty darn hard to actually dodge it....not impossible, but highly impractical.

As for the damage, the absolute least damage 2 FaN shots can do point blank is 164......which is enough to kill all 150 and lower HP classes (without being buffed).....and even then, pyro's and demo's are so low that a single pistol shot could finish them (or 2 at the least). The only thing that can live through a close-range sandman hit without buffed health is a soldier or heavy, the soldier unless they have perfect aim, will generally die in the next shot after the stun (or the scout can switch to his pistol and finish the soldier off before he has a chance to aim and fire), whereas the heavy has to spend a second to spinup his gun.

As for the bat, its not that useless.......as a scout being my main class, I get at least a few kills per round with the bat....usually against spys.

EDIT: Ok, time to switch from the sandman after firing a baseball, to the FaN is ~0.88 seconds (calculated by making a demo at 60 FPS and analyzing how many frames it took after firing the sandman, to how many frames it took to fire the first FaN shot). Beyond that, it only takes 0.33 seconds after the first shot to fire the second shot (~20 frames at 60 FPS), from there, it takes around 75 frames to switch from the FaN to the Pistol and fire the first pistol shot, which equates to 1.25 seconds. So total, it takes a scout 2.46 seconds to do (2 FaN shots + 1 pistol shot at minimum damage) 184 damage.....enough to kill everything (non-overhealed) in 2.5 seconds except a soldier and heavy.....it only takes roughly 12 frames between each pistol shot if you fire fast enough, which is .2 seconds....so you could finish a soldier off (again at all minimum damage) in 2.7 seconds. Now, I have not timed how long the stun lasts at its minimum range.......but I have seen people come up at medium range and kill anyone they stun.

Edited March 6, 2009 by mwpeck

[Nagisan]

Ok just did another quick test (too late to edit my last post)......at minimum distance required to stun (I kept throwing the ball and backing up until it stunned) the target was stunned from frame 90 to frame 270. That is 180 frames of being stunned, rendered at 60 frames per second......in other words the MINIMUM stun duration is 3 seconds. Considering a scout can switch to and deal enough damage to kill EVERY class except a heavy (excluding overhealed) in 2.7 seconds, a 3 second MINIMUM stun is a bit OP. Now, I know not every scout will be able to stun their target and not every scout will be able to hit their targets with perfect aim, but this is something that should NEVER be possible, not something thats typically not possible, except for the best scouts in the game. And the minimum distance to stun is close enough to hit the target with all pellets from the FaN, so its close enough to do its max possible damage without even having to move.

[Minimoose]

I have been saying it's op since release, and this pretty much confirms it. It should not stun, it should cause double vision (aimer moving slightly round the screen and double images moving around each other, so aiming becomes very hard, but does not make you defenceless. It could also slow you down by 25% or something around that). If you have a decent scout on your team, heavy medic combo's suck because the heavy just gets raped if he is stunned, and since he can't dodge it, he is going to be stunned.

The sandman also makes it too easy for snipers, I was playing yesterday and I suck at sniping but I was killing lots due to the opposite team being stunned all the time.

It also nerfs ubers, since when I'm playing as scout I just always stun the medic then the uber doesn't work...

[Blackhearted]

The sandman also makes it too easy for snipers, I was playing yesterday and I suck at sniping but I was killing lots due to the opposite team being stunned all the time.

It also nerfs ubers, since when I'm playing as scout I just always stun the medic then the uber doesn't work...

Sniping is stupidly easy in this game even without stun. I dominate people even without a scouts help. Nerfing the sandman won't suddenly make you or others get headshotted less. As for ubers, well... so they're not the easy win button they used to be. Oh well. next people will be wanting airblast and sentry knockback removed :rolleyes:

To be blunt though... I don't think it's that overpowered at all. We're talking a typical 1 stun and maybe kill on some classes(if random damage goes in your favor) every 10 seconds. Unless you try to seek out your ball while killing which will significantly hinder your chance of killing. Now, lets compare it to the other worst game mechanic, the backstab. It's not a projectile so it's can't be sidestepped, there's no time between the hit and your death for a teammate to intervene(as with the stun), it's a guaranteed kill vs ANY class no matter any variable(which the stun is not), it doesn't require back hits, and it has no cooldown whatsoever meaning you could take out a small army in the time it takes a scout to kill one. When you compare it to something that is and has been op since day one, the stun looks fine.

[Nagisan]

Sniping is stupidly easy in this game even without stun. I dominate people even without a scouts help. Nerfing the sandman won't suddenly make you or others get headshotted less. As for ubers, well... so they're not the easy win button they used to be. Oh well. next people will be wanting airblast and sentry knockback removed :rolleyes:

To be blunt though... I don't think it's that overpowered at all. We're talking a typical 1 stun and maybe kill on some classes(if random damage goes in your favor) every 10 seconds. Unless you try to seek out your ball while killing which will significantly hinder your chance of killing. Now, lets compare it to the other worst game mechanic, the backstab. It's not a projectile so it's can't be sidestepped, there's no time between the hit and your death for a teammate to intervene(as with the stun), it's a guaranteed kill vs ANY class no matter any variable(which the stun is not), it doesn't require back hits, and it has no cooldown whatsoever meaning you could take out a small army in the time it takes a scout to kill one. When you compare it to something that is and has been op since day one, the stun looks fine.

Ubers from what I understand were designed to prevent stalemates.....with the ability to stun an uber, stalemates are more common than before.

As for the backstab, that actually requires work to get....you have to infiltrate the enemy team, act as one of their own and NOT be randomly spy-checked. The sandman on the other hand just takes luck or halfway decent aim and you get the kill......very little skill involved compared to what a spy has to do.

[Doli]

I havent experienced the Scout pack yet because of school. I might play during spring break or when the semester is over but I after reading the complaints about the pack I might miss it if Valve makes changes to it by then. I missed the annoying scout rush :p

[Dance.]

Mwpeck, infiltrating the team is not a spy's job. Well, atleast a decent spy's job. A spy meets the enemy half way for a single, important kill (uber ready medic etc.). Getting into the specifics is too long but all I can tell you is that you should be meeting your enemy more into your half rather than theirs. People view spies as super offensive tools but in reality the most efficient spy is one who cripples the opponents offense. Think about it :) !

And as for ubers, they're made so that in cp maps the offensive teams can push forward. If it wasn't for an uber who in the world would stop 2 sentries with 2 spy checking pyros :) ? Of course they have their uses in different maps but all in all its mainly meant so that the offensive team can push and that the better team would be decided by time taken and not by the number of captured points ;).

[Vice]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=816110 (the URL gives exact distances it would take accounting for human reaction time and the speed of the character, excluding latency and character acceleration, so those numbers are a little on the low side).

If you were to add in latency (it already added in human reaction time...missed that the first time I looked at it) it would be pretty darn hard to actually dodge it....not impossible, but highly impractical.

I'd say I can only dodge about half of them and only really on Engineer, Scout and other classes that walk normal or higher then normal. I've not once dodged one as a heavy so far. I agree with some others here that its over powered even if its not used that much by all the gamers it just takes a few people who only play scout 24.7 to dominate the entire playing field with it.

I think the ball should be made a little slower but give it a rebound chance to hit someone (So if it misses it can still bounce off a wall and maybe hit someone and have the same effect). Definetly remove its ability to stop ubered players I mean whats the point in even having Uber at that point? Not to mention how hard it is to charge it up in the field if you don't just wanna sit in the spawn charging it. :laugh: And perhaps making the timer a little lower also.

I think Valve screwed up with the Sandman because its a weapon that is obviously looking forwards when all the classes have there unlockables. Its a overpowered weapon for a future where all the classes have a dominant weapon to choose from but right now that just isn't the case.

Mind you I thought the same thing about when the Pyro update came out and they got the Back Burner but I don't think that way anymore. Perhaps its just because every server I join has 3+ scouts all using the sandman religiously.

[Minimoose]

I'd say I can only dodge about half of them and only really on Engineer, Scout and other classes that walk normal or higher then normal. I've not once dodged one as a heavy so far. I agree with some others here that its over powered even if its not used that much by all the gamers it just takes a few people who only play scout 24.7 to dominate the entire playing field with it.

I think the ball should be made a little slower but give it a rebound chance to hit someone (So if it misses it can still bounce off a wall and maybe hit someone and have the same effect). Definetly remove its ability to stop ubered players I mean whats the point in even having Uber at that point? Not to mention how hard it is to charge it up in the field if you don't just wanna sit in the spawn charging it. :laugh: And perhaps making the timer a little lower also.

I think Valve screwed up with the Sandman because its a weapon that is obviously looking forwards when all the classes have there unlockables. Its a overpowered weapon for a future where all the classes have a dominant weapon to choose from but right now that just isn't the case.

Mind you I thought the same thing about when the Pyro update came out and they got the Back Burner but I don't think that way anymore. Perhaps its just because every server I join has 3+ scouts all using the sandman religiously.

You realise that they changed the Backburner because it was over powered right?

[Elliot B.]

HL2.exe hanging on shutdown has finally been fixed :D

[ViZioN]

HL2.exe hanging on shutdown has finally been fixed :D

Awesome :D Glad they've fixed that. It's been too long!