Lost - Season 5

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Grand Master

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w00t, awesome episode. Next week's episode will be even better, Ellie explains things.

Everything is moving along quite well with the plot and answers. Another 12 more episodes to go :D

So, apparently being taken by smokey and coming back makes you dedicated to the Island w/ knowledge of the Island. I wonder if this is responsible for the Hostiles/the Others dedication/actions.

I also liked the mention of "Death" to describe the Island in this episode. Plays well with the underworld theory. You know the one with the four toe statue being Anubis and all.

Edited by NeptuneSaK
Grand Master

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I wonder if that temple was the temple richard took the others when the freighter crew arrived for safety.

It's possible. We always assumed it was a Dharma station because Ben made the Dharma logo on the map with "The Temple" on it. So, it could just be the a simple Temple built by the Ancients. Or perhaps Dharma built over it like the Orchid.

Smokey guards over it, making it the safest place. So, yeah, I think its the same.

On another note, poor Locke. Its always his legs that get hurt. :/

Edited by NeptuneSaK
Grand Master

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I also liked the mention of "Death" to describe the Island in this episode. Plays well with the underworld theory. You know the one with the four toe statue being Anubis and all.

The island is not purgatory. They shot that down way back in S2.

So the important question is: Why did Ben want to leave the island? To threaten Widmore? Did he think that was the only way he could get at Penny?

Grand Master

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Not sure episode, maybe he had enough of the Island (though he is coming back!) or just wanted to get back at Widmore for killing Alex. He looked shocked to see Desmond though.

Is it pretty much confirmed now that Faraday's mother is the same woman Faraday spoke to when the bomb was hanging?

Grand Master

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The island is not purgatory. They shot that down way back in S2.

What led you to believe it was in purgatory? The constant bringing back the dead theme fits in well with worshiping the dead on the Island - which is likely what all the Ancient ruins are built around.

So the important question is: Why did Ben want to leave the island? To threaten Widmore? Did he think that was the only way he could get at Penny?

Got the following from Lostpedia forums,

Locke was supposed to lead the Others, but Ben managed to mess around with him on that.

Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, but Ben did it instead.

Locke was supposed to bring back the O6, but Ben is doing that now.

So, the Island went on the constant flashes due to Ben making the wheel stuck. Seems like Ben is thinking ahead as usual, getting revenge and finding a way back to the Island.

Grand Master

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Not sure episode, maybe he had enough of the Island (though he is coming back!) or just wanted to get back at Widmore for killing Alex. He looked shocked to see Desmond though.

Is it pretty much confirmed now that Faraday's mother is the same woman Faraday spoke to when the bomb was hanging?

He didn't seem to know that Eloise was Faraday's mother. I was shocked by that. Ben is very, very rarely surprised. We've only seen it there, and with Alex's death.

What led you to believe it was in purgatory? The constant bringing back the dead theme fits in well with worshiping the dead on the Island - which is likely what all the Ancient ruins are built around.

I don't understand your question? You said that it fits with the 'underworld theory'. I was telling you (as a fact) that Cuse and Lindelof stated that the island is not purgatory, therefore the 'underworld theory' is not correct.

Got the following from Lostpedia forums,

Locke was supposed to lead the Others, but Ben managed to mess around with him on that.

Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, but Ben did it instead.

Locke was supposed to bring back the O6, but Ben is doing that now.

So, the Island went on the constant flashes due to Ben making the wheel stuck. Seems like Ben is thinking ahead as usual, getting revenge and finding a way back to the Island.

I understand that, but that doesn't answer why Ben lied to Locke so that Ben could leave the island. We know now that Ben did it when he wasn't supposed to, but the question is why.

Also, I don't think Locke was ever supposed to lead the Others. Jacob has asked him to help him (Jacob) and to move the island. Thats all.

Ben told him to lead the Others, as Ben told him that Ben needed to move the island.

Richard was the one that explained they needed to come back, so that might be true. But remember, the only reason they started listening to Ben was because Locke died. So from a certain point of view, it was Locke that brought them back together, and it will be Ben to physically bring him back.

Another note: Was this the first episode (completely) without any flashbacks or flashforwards? I think we are supposed to treat these events as happening at the same time, now, as far as I can tell. Up until now, you'd see 'three years ago' or 'three years later'.

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Grand Master

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I don't understand your question? You said that it fits with the 'underworld theory'. I was telling you (as a fact) that Cuse and Lindelof stated that the island is not purgatory, therefore the 'underworld theory' is not correct.

Ignore the underworld part. Still, the role of Death still stances in regards to the Ruins, and the use of the dead people to communicate with the living. I like the idea of the the statue being of Anubis, the ruins worshiping the gods of the Dead, etc.

I understand that, but that doesn't answer why Ben lied to Locke so that Ben could leave the island. We know now that Ben did it when he wasn't supposed to, but the question is why.

Well, we can be certain Ben has his own agenda planned out. He already stated he was going to kill Penny since Widmore changed some unknown rules. So, let's leave it that for now, and assume he left for revenge alone.

Also, I don't think Locke was ever supposed to lead the Others. Jacob has asked him to help him (Jacob) and to move the island. Thats all.

Ben told him to lead the Others, as Ben told him that Ben needed to move the island.

Richard was the one that explained they needed to come back, so that might be true. But remember, the only reason they started listening to Ben was because Locke died. So from a certain point of view, it was Locke that brought them back together, and it will be Ben to physically bring him back.

I agree to an extend. Both Locke and Jack were needed to led the Others and the Island. Locke was a man of faith, who is turning towards science (time travel and all). While Jack was a man of science now turning to faith (meant to be on the Island, etc). I think the writers touched on this issue in an interview that both were leaders together.

Locke dieing is a goal for Ben. Why should Locke led the Others, when Ben doesn't want to lose power. Though we see now Christian is a supporter of Locke, not Ben. Which adds to the fact that Locke should be leading the Others. But, I guess that's all over now, unless Locke comes back alive when he returns to the Island.

Another note: Was this the first episode (completely) without any flashbacks or flashforwards?

Correct. The writers held onto their promise. Haha.

Grand Master

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Anythings possible at this point.

Anyways, to add to the revenge bit on Ben. We know Sayid and Ben have a falling out - we might see it soon. Perhaps, Ben gives the order to kill Penny to Sayid, which he ends up refusing.

I think the 'falling out' was Sayid walking away.

The Canton - Rainier anagram of course is correct. All the other ones we've seen have been correct, so why would there be an incorrect one now?

Grand Master

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Tonight's ...

No. I was thinking before tonight's episode. Sayid went to work for Ben as a hitman, but from what I saw during the first couple of episodes of Season 5, Sayid warned Hurley about Ben and told him to stay away from Ben. Though, I'm basing this falling out occurring primarily on the fact of all the hitman w/ tranquilizers sent by Ben to capture Sayid and Hurley. Which seems likely due to the time constraint. So, if this were the case, why would Ben need to send people to capture Sayid when he is already working for him. Therefore, I assumed a falling out occurred between Sayid and Ben prior to tonight's episode.

However, it could be Widmore or the Economist sending the hitman w/ tranquilizers. Not so much Widmore, since hes easy to find. Desmond and Sun are able to do it, so can Sayid then. So, if its not Ben sending the hitmans, its the Economist. Who, still remains unknown and hard to find.

Grand Master

episode

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No. I was thinking before tonight's episode. Sayid went to work for Ben as a hitman, but from what I saw during the first couple of episodes of Season 5, Sayid warned Hurley about Ben and told him to stay away from Ben. Though, I'm basing this falling out occurring primarily on the fact of all the hitman w/ tranquilizers sent by Ben to capture Sayid and Hurley. Which seems likely due to the time constraint. So, if this were the case, why would Ben need to send people to capture Sayid when he is already working for him. Therefore, I assumed a falling out occurred between Sayid and Ben prior to tonight's episode.

However, it could be Widmore or the Economist sending the hitman w/ tranquilizers. Not so much Widmore, since hes easy to find. Desmond and Sun are able to do it, so can Sayid then. So, if its not Ben sending the hitmans, its the Economist. Who, still remains unknown and hard to find.

Ahh I get what you're saying now. I thought you meant something was happening in the future.

I still think Ben has Sayid kill Locke, and that causes him to change his mind about what he is doing.

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