Lost - Season 5

By +Peewee210
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Grand Master

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Posted
Posted
Dharma in my argument being those people involved in finding the Island for US Army (1950s) and Dharma (1970s). Hence, the relation. Can't believe you won't accept the obvious.

DHARMA was founded in 1970, by Alvar Hanso. Go read the info on TLE.

Who's talking about them aging faster? Reread my argument, don't make up stuff. Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Daniel, Jin, and any other Losties are stuck in the 1970s. This is fact now.

You said that they would be losing 3 years of their lives.

Those flashes occurred right after Ben pushed the TDW. Jin has been floating all this time right after the freighter explosion. Sawyer, Locke, Juliet, Miles, Daniel, Charlotte have being trying to reach the Orchid right after the Island disappeared from the original timeline. Yes, they are moving back in time, however, they are not skipping time off their lives.

I don't know how to make you understand this, but I'll try.

The O6 leaves the island right before the wheel is turned. They live about three years off island. Ben leaves at the same time, instantly skipping 8 months of this time.

The people left behind start experiencing flashes. Most of the flashes are not given time frames as to how long they are.

Eventually they go to all kinds of time frames. 1988, 1954, the future, 2004, and eventually the 1970s. When they get to each of those periods, they interact with the island as it was then.

They get to the final period. For the sake of argument, lets call it September 1977. They join up with DHARMA, probably to blend in more than anything.

Now, the O6 come back on Ajira 316 and Kate, Jack, and Hurley experience a flash and appear back in the same time frame as those left behind. Whos to say its not Oct 1977?

I don't understand why, with all the time shifts, you think those three years are so important?

It makes absolute sense. If X amount of time went by in Y location, then X amount of time went by in Z location.

Not when location Z is traveling all over time.

Believe whatever you want, it will be explained soon enough.

And I'll be right, as usual.

Grand Master

Sir Topham Hatt

Posted
Posted

Okay, so there are some crazy thoughts going around, but I have a few to perhaps put some to sleep.

  • Widmore wants to get back to the island. He's been searching for it for ages, so why would it be him that built the Lampost? Surely if He could work out where the Island was going to be, it would mean He could go back?
  • What's all this with Ben killing/trying to kill Penny? What did Ben have against Penny?
  • I always thought Desmond was a white horse. While his character is important, I don't think there is any influence if He returns to the island or not?
  • Ben seemed to know a lot about the island (evident in Series 2/3?), yet that knowledge was not passed on to us.
  • I don't think they have ended up in the 1970's just because they didn't get the right people in the right way. If Hugo was supposed to be the guitar guy, then Hugo would have been missing from the plane, so surely it makes no difference? However perhaps having a guitar case there would something that was "the same".
  • Perhaps Sayid was arrested and was being transported. He just happened (with a little help from the island? Ben? (is that how He got hurt?)) to be on the same plane. Hurley likes Sayid so he just followed him?
  • We already know Widmore was there before the original plane crash, so perhaps him working for Dharma is him being on the island, but somehow, for some reason, he has to leave.
  • I don't understand much about Daniel Faraday either. I relate him more to that other guy who was in "the others" camp who doesn't seem to age (I forget the name!), who warned John and told him the secret. Daniel seems to be a somewhat white horse who knows a lot about the time travelling effects of the island, which is why He was there in Dharma time (we've seen that) but he doesn't seem to have aged even though it is 30/40 years later.
  • The people who shot Saywer and co in the boat could've been Sayid and the others who were not back on the island with Jack, Kate and Hurley?
  • While I am not sure on this, how do we know anyone else on the plane is back on the island? Just because there was an extra person in first class, I get the feeling he isn't that important. Then again, why make him say he was sorry a blah blah?

Just some thoughts.

Grand Master

Mathachew Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Widmore wants to get back to the island. He's been searching for it for ages, so why would it be him that built the Lampost? Surely if He could work out where the Island was going to be, it would mean He could go back?

Good point in that Widmore is, as far as we can tell, from the island and likely isn't aware of how Dharma found the island while being aware of what they did on the island.

What's all this with Ben killing/trying to kill Penny? What did Ben have against Penny?

Ben wants revenge because Alex was killed by one of Widmore's men.

Ben seemed to know a lot about the island (evident in Series 2/3?), yet that knowledge was not passed on to us.

All in due time.

I don't think they have ended up in the 1970's just because they didn't get the right people in the right way. If Hugo was supposed to be the guitar guy, then Hugo would have been missing from the plane, so surely it makes no difference? However perhaps having a guitar case there would something that was "the same".

We know they're in the 70s because 1) The Dharma van looked brand new (we've seen them years later being decrepit) and 2) Jin was wearing a Dharma suit. Hugo wasn't replacing Charlie so much as he was trying to match what happened before: Charlie had a guitar on the plane.

I don't understand much about Daniel Faraday either. I relate him more to that other guy who was in "the others" camp who doesn't seem to age (I forget the name!), who warned John and told him the secret. Daniel seems to be a somewhat white horse who knows a lot about the time travelling effects of the island, which is why He was there in Dharma time (we've seen that) but he doesn't seem to have aged even though it is 30/40 years later.

Daniel's in a Dharma suit because everyone is back in the 70s.

The people who shot Saywer and co in the boat could've been Sayid and the others who were not back on the island with Jack, Kate and Hurley?

It's been speculated on who it could have been. For all we know, it could be the other passengers that were on the plane that we have yet to meet. We just don't know, but it's less likely to be some of the O6 shooting at them without hesitation.

While I am not sure on this, how do we know anyone else on the plane is back on the island? Just because there was an extra person in first class, I get the feeling he isn't that important. Then again, why make him say he was sorry a blah blah?

The difference between this plane and the last, besides the number of people on board, was that there was a flash like when the people on the island were moving through time. From the previews, we can see that the the woman who was escorting Sayid is on the island, so that's reason enough to believe that other people are there as well. Possibly just the people in first class, but unlikely.

Grand Master

ramesees

Posted
Posted
  • What's all this with Ben killing/trying to kill Penny? What did Ben have against Penny?

Well Widmore sent the modern army men to the island to find Ben etc.. and they ended up killing Alex, who Ben saw as a daughter. This was in Season 4 episode 9.

Then Ben visited Widmore in London and told him that he would get revenge by killing Penny (Widmore's daughter).

Grand Master

ATGC

Posted
Posted
DHARMA was founded in 1970, by Alvar Hanso. Go read the info on TLE.

So, they magically got all the data to find the Island? Make the Lamppost? The people originally working with the US Army went with Dharma. There is relationship between the US Army and the Dharma Initiative, considering the Dharma Initiative was made due to United Nations orders. Alvar Hanso was the bank, nothing more.

"The Sri Lanka Video of The Lost Experience appears to build on the last statement, explaining that the DHARMA Initiative was part of a project begun in response to the Valenzetti Equation commissioned by the UN in 1967, a mathematical formula that reportedly predicts the amount of time until the extinction of mankind."

Read up. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/DHARMA_Initiative

You said that they would be losing 3 years of their lives.

No. Where did I say this?

The O6 leaves the island right before the wheel is turned.

Correct.

They live about three years off island.

Correct.

Ben leaves at the same time, instantly skipping 8 months of this time.

Ben rejoins 10 months later, not right after. As the same will happen with Locke.

The people left behind start experiencing flashes. Most of the flashes are not given time frames as to how long they are.

The flash time period are obviously short. As mentioned by Sawyer, the flashes are getting closer and closer to each other.

Eventually they go to all kinds of time frames. 1988, 1954, the future, 2004, and eventually the 1970s. When they get to each of those periods, they interact with the island as it was then.

They get to the final period. For the sake of argument, lets call it September 1977. They join up with DHARMA, probably to blend in more than anything.

I understand your argument, but I don't buy it.

Now, the O6 come back on Ajira 316 and Kate, Jack, and Hurley experience a flash and appear back in the same time frame as those left behind. Whos to say its not Oct 1977?

I don't understand why, with all the time shifts, you think those three years are so important?

To establish a history with DI.

And I'll be right, as usual.

Yeah, just like Sayid killing Locke. :laugh: He committed suicide? Did you forget that already?

Grand Master

+Peewee210 Subscriber¹

Posted
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From Jin's initial reaction at NOT immediately recognizing Jack, Kate and Hugo, My thought was that he had been with Dharma for the ~3 years that they had been off the island (minus the time theyve shown so far with the flashes).

Yeah, I think someone mentioned that earlier and I agree, would make sense.

Proficient

Chris-Gonzales

Posted
Posted
mehhhh, "i agree"

this is why i never join forums...

you people act as if you're discussing world peace, or arguing the cure for cancer or something

you're talking about a television show...so call it what it is, act more respectful, and just TRY to be a little more tolerant

we all know everyone wants to be 'RIGHT' and know the 'MOST'... but honestly, put ur ###### and rulers away and just talk about 'lost' and CHILL OUT while you do so.

Why did you join this site? Just to respond by saying "this is why I never join forums" and to go off on a flame war? Please, keep your opinions to your self. This thread is about LOST, like you said

Grand Master

episode

Posted
Posted (edited)
So, they magically got all the data to find the Island? Make the Lamppost? The people originally working with the US Army went with Dharma. There is relationship between the US Army and the Dharma Initiative, considering the Dharma Initiative was made due to United Nations orders. Alvar Hanso was the bank, nothing more.

"The Sri Lanka Video of The Lost Experience appears to build on the last statement, explaining that the DHARMA Initiative was part of a project begun in response to the Valenzetti Equation commissioned by the UN in 1967, a mathematical formula that reportedly predicts the amount of time until the extinction of mankind."

Read up. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/DHARMA_Initiative

Magically? No. They had Eloise who had been on the island, possibly information from Faraday, and probably others.

So DHARMA was commissioned by the UN, per your link. Doesn't that refute your argument of US Army involvement since you know, the US and the UN are not the same thing? If the US was behind DHARMA as you think, they would have created it, not sit around and let the UN do it.

No. Where did I say this?
Living on the Island doesn’t mean you lose years off your life.

Thats what you said.

Ben rejoins 10 months later, not right after. As the same will happen with Locke.

Right, he didn't live those 8+ months. Jan - Oct. Same as Locke won't live a period, same as those left behind won't live all three years. Why do you insist that those still on the island are going to be different?

The flash time period are obviously short. As mentioned by Sawyer, the flashes are getting closer and closer to each other.

Some of them were not overly short. The duration really doesn't matter, except to say that they don't add much time to the on island timeline.

To establish a history with DI.

They don't need a history with DHARMA. Why do you feel that they need to so badly?

Yeah, just like Sayid killing Locke. :laugh: He committed suicide? Did you forget that already?

So I got one wrong. I've also just about perfectly nailed everything else I've theorized this season. Including how they got back.

I'm not saying that they aren't go to spend time working for DHARMA. But its not going to be 3 years or anywhere close to that.

Edited by episode
Grand Master

ATGC

Posted
Posted
Magically? No. They had Eloise who had been on the island, possibly information from Faraday, and probably others.

So DHARMA was commissioned by the UN, per your link. Doesn't that refute your argument of US Army involvement since you know, the US and the UN are not the same thing? If the US was behind DHARMA as you think, they would have created it, not sit around and let the UN do it.

Who was a major contributor to the United Nation in the 1950s? 1960s? 1970s? The United States. I'm sure LOST writers due their researcher.

The US Army didn't just chance upon by the Island out of dumb luck. I think they were involved in the creation of the Lamppost before pre-Dharma (people doing the research before joining Dharma). Since Eloise was already on the Island, why the hell does she need a picture of it beside the equations? LOST writers didn't put the photograph just for show. It was meant to be clue indicating a connection was present with the DI and US Army. After all, an electromagnetic area in California just doesn't go unnoticed by the military.

Thats what you said.

Can you read? "Living on the Island doesn’t mean you lose years off your life." How does this translate to, "You said that they would be losing 3 years of their lives."?

Right, he didn't live those 8+ months. Jan - Oct. Same as Locke won't live a period, same as those left behind won't live all three years. Why do you insist that those still on the island are going to be different?

By your logic, every time someone went off the Island they had to calculate specifically when to leave the Island? Like, each time Richard, Tom, Ethan went off the Island? They had to leave and wait 10 months? No. Ben and Locke are special cases because they are warped from deep underground to another location off the Island causing a 10 month delay for some reason.

Some of them were not overly short. The duration really doesn't matter, except to say that they don't add much time to the on island timeline.

They were all short, go watch the bloody episodes. It's not like they freaking camped out, went hunting for fish, slept, etc. As soon as the flashes started, a journey was set by the writers so they head for the Orchid station. As flashes get closer to each other, it was clear their journey was short, i.e. 1 week or else short. Jin wasn't floating for weeks in the freaking water, he would have been dead. Sorry, but you have no argument here.

They don't need a history with DHARMA. Why do you feel that they need to so badly?

Wait and see. I am positive a history is already established on Island. It might not be shown in the next episode, as its only Locke related, but after that for sure.

Grand Master

Nicholas-c Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

Epic episode!!! It is supporting my theory SO well! I have figured out why the swan exists etc!! WOWW! :p

Questons

1: (No one knows so far it seems) Where is Aaron ?

2: Why was "Jack, I wish" Only part left on the letter from Mr Bentham ?

3: (Not really queston, Confirmation) The O5 + Ben time travelled to 70's and the rest of the plane crashed on island in 2008/9, [Theory!] where the Survivors of Arija Airways shot at Faraday etc on the canoes ?

Other than that my theories are looking pretty damn solid :ninja: :cool:

Grand Master

ATGC

Posted
Posted
1: (No one knows so far it seems) Where is Aaron ?

Same can be said about Ji-Yeon, they aren't relevant at the moment. Kate stood by Clarie's wishes to keep Aaron away from the Island. Makes sense, she left him with Clarie's mother, as she was in the same city at the time or probably someone else.

2: Why was "Jack, I wish" Only part left on the letter from Mr Bentham ?

Who knows. :/ Though, it could be just because he was holding the letter from the top left edge.

3: (Not really queston, Confirmation) The O5 + Ben time travelled to 70's and the rest of the plane crashed on island in 2008/9, [Theory!] where the Survivors of Arija Airways shot at Faraday etc on the canoes ?

That might be the case.

From what Rappy posted several pages ago,

"Last but definitely not least, Kim also said that viewers shouldn't get too worked up over a reunion of Jin and his wife Sun (played by Yunjin Kim) just yet. Fans only recently found out that Jin had survived the freighter explosion, and even Sun thinks he is dead.

Though Sun will return to the island, Kim said the events don't mean "they're particularly in the same place or chronologically in the same time.""

We only found Kate, Hurley, and Jack back in 1970s. It could be that John, Sayid, Sun, etc. are in a different timeline, i.e. 2009.

Veteran

Unrealistic

Posted
Posted
Epic episode!!! It is supporting my theory SO well! I have figured out why the swan exists etc!! WOWW! :p

Questons

2: Why was "Jack, I wish" Only part left on the letter from Mr Bentham ?

This is pure speculation/wishing on my part, but maybe it is cut off to signify that Locke is now alive again.

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