Looking for advice for new rig build

[gwai lo]

The board only affects your processor and RAM choice by what it has slots for. If it doesn't have the correct socket for the processor or the correct slots for the RAM, then it won't be compatible.

As for how the processor and RAM relate, I listed it with my equations earlier. The RAM is typically linked with the front side bus of the processor, ideally you just want to run a 1:1 ratio so typically you figure out what RAM you're going to buy by figuring about where you want/can overclock to. You can determine the speed of the RAM you need by figuring out the front side bus frequency you want to achieve. Example...

You have a Q6600 and want to overclock to 3200 MHz. The Q6600's front side bus on the box is listed as 1066 MHz, which is actually quad pumped so it's effectively 1066 MHz but actually 266 MHz. With that information, you can determine the multiplier by dividing the stock frequency (2.4 GHz) by this FSB. We know that the multiplier cannot be raised with Intel's chips, they can be lowered for Speedstep or for running a high FSB if you want to test that stuff. Anyway, dividing 2400 by 266 gets us ≈9.02256 and if we round we get 9. Now to reach 3200 MHz, you will need a FSB of 3200/9 or ≈355.5555 MHz. You know that DDR2-667 is rated for 333 MHz and that DDR2-800 is rated for 400 MHz, they are rated for this frequency so that means that they will run at or slower than those numbers. This doesn't mean they won't overclock, plenty of people have broken 500 MHz with slower running sticks, you're just not given a guarantee that they will.

As for 4870X2 v. 2?4870, that depends on your resolution. A lot of people seem to base video card choices on budget, I'm one of the few who base it on resolution. Look at some reviews and you'll see what I mean, the main thing you want to shoot for is reaching at least 30 FPS as over that and everything will seem fluid. Anyway, you'll find that at certain resolutions, some cards may put out 80-100+ FPS whereas a lower model card will "only" put out 50-60 FPS. Since video cards are depreciate rather quickly, my suggestion is to buy what you need when you need it. So if a lower model card will supply your the FPS you want at the settings you want at the resolution you run, I would buy that card and not buy the highest end video card. You may see it as future proofing, but unless you *know* that you're buying a larger monitor or that there is a game coming that will require more GPU power, buying an overpowered card now may not net you any real gains over buying a cheaper and slower card. There is a good chance that by the time you can take advantage of that extra power, there will be another generation of video cards released that have better performance and cost the same or less.

Most recent example I can think of is the 8800GTS G92 and the 4850.

[Kittamaru]

Okay... kinda confused me with the calculations there.

Where did you get the number 266 MHz from?

And basicly you want to... match the ram's rated speed -10% to the final overclocked frequency in MHz by the... the fsb speed... right?

[gwai lo]

Maybe you'll get a better idea if I use 1333 MHz...Intel uses the same term for both, Front Side Bus. 1066 MHz are the FSBs of the Conroes, Kentsfields, low end Wolfales...and 1333 MHz is the FSBs of the Wolfdales and Yorkfields, etc etc. Excluding EE's here because they're anomalies. Anyway, they're quad pumped, so they're effectively 1066 MHz or 1333 MHz, but really 266 MHz or 333 MHz respectively.

As for RAM speed and overclocking...there isn't a straight formula for it because you can't predict how far RAM will overclock. The only thing to the formula is for guaranteeing certain frequencies depending on the multiplier. I'll use the Q9550 as the example because it's what you're looking at:

Q9550 = 333?8.5 = 2830.5 MHz

If you get DDR2-667 that's enough for stock speed:

667/2 ≈ 333

If you get DDR2-800 that's enough for:

800/2 = 400 ? 8.5 = 3400 MHz

If you get DDR2-1000 that's good enough for:

1000/2 = 500 ? 8.5 = 4250 MHz

I'll just not mention the variability of overclocking with RAM.

[Kittamaru]

Wait... you take the TOTAL FSB speed and divide it by four... that's the speed you want to match your ram speed to then?

Okay, let me try to match a CPU and Ram at stock:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail

1333 FSB @ 2830 MHz = ≈ 333

Pushed up to

4250 MHz ≈ 500 x2 = 1000, so DDR2-1000

Link

matched to

OCZ Platinum Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2P10004GK - Retail

Link

Right?

So... what's the point of even having the faster ram then? Can you REALLY push a CPU hard enough to take advantage of it?

[gwai lo]

The quad pumped FSB, 1333 MHz or 1066 MHz, is the stock FSB. That will change as you overclock as Intel doesn't allow you to move the multiplier upwards unless it's an Extreme Edition. You can move it downward, but that's just a bigger headache on your part.

However, I think you've pretty much got it figured out...or have some general idea. Faster RAM is for people overclocking, some people set goals..like 3400 MHz, so all they need is DDR2-800. Some people set higher goals...at least 500 FSB for example. Others go till they can't squeeze any more out.

[Kittamaru]

What kind of cooling would I need to make DDR3 ram even worthwhile? And how far would I have to overclock... I mean... if that's the case, would an Extreme Edition be worth it in the kind of build I want?

[gwai lo]

DDR2 will can max out our chips now. Not too many quads breaking 550+ FSB and even then, it's usually people really pushing their chips (think xtremesystems and phase change) and no, you should not get an EE.

[Kittamaru]

So DDR3 is only good for "future planning" then?

Aight... question then is does Intel plan to stay with their 775 socket for a long time? If so, it might be worth getting the better MoBo for now, and wait till later to go to DDR3 and a CPU that can handle it... right?

[Kittamaru]

Let's see if I have the basic understanding one last time, looking at the overclocking guide:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor

1333/4 = 333

2830 / 333 = 8.5

So to overclock to 3400 MHz

3400/8.5 = 400

So my Ram would need to run at 400 MHz, right?

So this ram

OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel

With 4-4-4-15 timings should be able to handle it... so if I want a cushion...

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel

At 533 MHz would be more than capable of letting the CPU run at it's best?

And both of those would pair well with this motherboard:

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard

And would allow me some room to expand, right?

[Kittamaru]

Aight, one final question before I re-make my current build list:

How important is L2 Cache? Will you really notice a difference between 6 MB L2 and 12 MB L2?

[gwai lo]

If you want buffer I'd lean towards DDR2-1000 kit from G.Skill because it's cheaper and a little more realistic...breaking 500 FSB is a stretch for quads. Also, that board is overpriced for what you want to do, but if you want to spend the money then go ahead..it supports the chip you want and the RAM you want.

As for L2 cache..it's important if you're doing tasks that will see advantages in larger cache, for games and most normal user tasks, you won't see a major difference if at all.

[Kittamaru]

What board would you recommend? *smiles politely* Again, I'm trying to keep an open mind... just that one has the best overall score from what I've seen... I'd rather go with Gigabit but they don't seem to have any boards that support the ram and CPU.

[Kittamaru]

I'm looking at these boards atm - recommendation?

Cheaper DFI LANPARTY DK X48-T2RS

Not As Cheap DFI LP LT X48-T2R

Cheaper Still MSIMSI P45 Neo2-FR

Other than the really expensive boards they carry, Asus seems the only other one.

What would you recommend?

[gwai lo]

Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L

Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R

The MSI board

Asus P5Q Pro

DFI LT X38-T2R

[Kittamaru]

Hm... aighty.

What ram do you recommend? I've always had great luck with OCZ

[gwai lo]

Depends on what you're aiming to clock to, but you can figure that one out on your own. I'd get 4GB (2?2GB) from whichever company is offering it for the cheapest.

[Kittamaru]

So you don't have a brand preference? *smiles* That's what I meant- what brand have you had good experience with.

[gwai lo]

I don't care about brands unless they've consistently demonstrated a bad history (e.g. Coolmax, Deer, Allied, etc) or have reported widespread issues with their current model...which in that case I would just avoid recommending that model. You'll have to ask someone else for brand preferences.

[Kittamaru]

Aighty... here's the current build:

ASUS 20X DVD?R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model DRW-2014L1T - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16827135156

APEVIA X-Plorer ATXB8KLW-AL Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16811144103

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM 
	Item #: N82E16822136284

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (bare drive) - OEM 
	Item #: N82E16822136296

VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16814129113

ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E818A2T - OEM 
	Item #: N82E16827135175

Thermaltake W0116RU 750W Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version SLI Ready CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16817153038

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM 
	Item #: N82E16835100007

OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR800C44GK - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16820227267

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16813128345

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail 
	Item #: N82E16819115017

What do you guys think? That is for $1,342.51 SHIPPED to my address.

Now... considering I want to overclock the CPU to at least 3.25 GHz... should I go Air or Water cooling?

[gwai lo]

Air, which in that case you don't need the Arctic Silver 5.

[Kittamaru]

Think that build would be enough to handle most mid-level games?

[TruckWEB]

Aight... question then is does Intel plan to stay with their 775 socket for a long time?

Core i7 'Nehalem' will use a new socket LGA1366 with the new X58 chipset. Should be out in November.

Think that build would be enough to handle most mid-level games?

More than enough, you should even be able to play Crysis with this setup! I prefer Asus motherboard but the Gigabyte is a good choice too.

[gwai lo]

Think that build would be enough to handle most mid-level games?

Depends on the resolution..if you're running 19?12 or lower, then yes, as well as what you're defining as "mid level". The 4870 can probably handle 25?16 if needed, but you'll just have to adjust the settings.

[Kittamaru]

*nods* I'll tweak the build little to try to lower the cost a little.

[Kittamaru]

Qty. Image Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price

Update APEVIA X-Plorer ATXB8KLW-GN Black/Green Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

Model #:ATXB8KLW-GN

Item #:N82E16811144105

$63.99

Update APEVIA CF12SL-UBL 120mm Blue LED Case Fan - Retail

Model #:CF12SL-UBL

Item #:N82E16811998121

$7.49 x 4

Update Open Box: ASUS P5E Deluxe LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard

Model #:P5E Deluxe

Item #:N82E16813131317R

$155.25

Update SAPPHIRE Toxic 100225TXSR Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Model #:100225TXSR

Item #:N82E16814102732

$139.99

Update PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

Model #:S75QB

Item #:N82E16817703009

$164.99

Update Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail

Model #:BX80562Q6600

Item #:N82E16819115017

$189.99

2 x Update OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR800C44GK - Retail

Model #:OCZ2RPR800C44GK

Item #:N82E16820227267

$189.98

Update Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Model #:WD3000GLFS

Item #:N82E16822136260

$279.99

Update ASUS Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E818A3T - Retail

Model #:DVD-E818A3T

Item #:N82E16827135176

$22.99

Update LG 22X DVD?R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model GH22LS30 - OEM

Model #:GH22LS30

Item #:N82E16827136153

$31.99

Update Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 English NA Upgrade DVD - Retail

Model #:66R-02262

Item #:N82E16832116474

$184.99

Update ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail

Model #:CNPS9500 AT

Item #:N82E16835118003

$49.99

Update MASSCOOL BLD-08025S1M 80mm Blue LED Case Fan - Retail

Model #:BLD-08025S1M

Item #:N82E16835150037

$11.07

Subtotal: $1,492.70

That's what I'm thinking for the final build - this is with input from here and a bit of research.