Atheist group sues Bush, governor over National Day of Prayer

[remix17]

I don't have a problem with people believing in a supreme being. I find it silly, but I'm OK with it. What I do have a problem with is religion, mythology, denial of reality (evolution), Creationism. If you decide that the world looks designed, fine. But if you start telling me stories about how there is a loving and caring God who watches all of our actions, punishes and rewards us, answers our prayers, then I have a huge problem. A grown man who still believes in fairy tales, you bet I have a problem with that. These are the same grown men who get elected into office, run my life, teach classes and god knows what else. I don't want to live in the world where people choose to believe in absurdities.

Point of view of an atheist (this is how I feel every day):

"You have to try to imagine this from the point of view of the atheist: to an atheist any religious belief is akin to belief in the easter bunny. They view it as archaic superstition that has no basis in reality, and seems, to the atheist, childish. How would you react to a forty-year-old man who tried to convince you that if you put teeth under you pillow that there would be money there in the morning? Then imagine that this man, who otherwise posseses common sense, tries to give you rules upon which you should base your life, and that even if you think that you are happy you are only fooling yourself. Now take this man, multiply him by 6 billion and surround yourself with him. Put him in charge of everything from where your children go to school, to the place you work, to the government that rules your nation and live there for years. Imagine the frustration that would build knowing that everyone around you is, in essence insane and believes in things that are so ridiculous that logic cannot defend them."

[abulfares]

"no wonder u r as close minded as any nut case extreme religious person out there.", and saying that a website explains a lot about him. The comment where he said (several pages back) "And having those beliefs shows how ignorant and clueless u r about reality." was a reworded version of an attack on him. I followed that by recommending against it, because I knew someone would do this.

This is not about us, not about who is making the cases. Remember that.

Not attacks only? Are we reading the same thread? Both sides are making their cases and defending them. Seems fine to me.

Note I also qualified my sentence: "I rather doubt he has a problem with people personally (and privately) choosing to be religious." I still reserve the right to get ****ed off at people who try and push religion on to me. However, I pity those who are privately religious.

I agree with your post there. and again, no one is trying to push anything onto anyone.

all I am trying to do is explain why me believing is God is not irrational or illogical because I consider the universe as evidence to his existence (off course u don't agree with me there, and its fine -- just like diagnosing someone with depression, u can't see it and u can't touch it, but evidence suggests that its there and doctors prescribe medicines for it).

I don't agree if someone described his opinion as a "fact that does not have basis for disagreement".

[Darksoft]

I don't have a problem with people believing in a supreme being. I find it silly, but I'm OK with it. What I do have a problem with is religion, mythology, denial of reality (evolution), Creationism. If you decide that the world looks designed, fine. But if you start telling me stories about how there is a loving and caring God who watches all of our actions, punishes and rewards us, answers our prayers, then I have a huge problem. A grown man who still believes in fairy tales, you bet I have a problem with that. These are the same grown men who get elected into office, run my life, teach classes and god knows what else. I don't want to live in the world where people choose to believe in absurdities.

Point of view of an atheist (this is how I feel every day):

"You have to try to imagine this from the point of view of the atheist: to an atheist any religious belief is akin to belief in the easter bunny. They view it as archaic superstition that has no basis in reality, and seems, to the atheist, childish. How would you react to a forty-year-old man who tried to convince you that if you put teeth under you pillow that there would be money there in the morning? Then imagine that this man, who otherwise posseses common sense, tries to give you rules upon which you should base your life, and that even if you think that you are happy you are only fooling yourself. Now take this man, multiply him by 6 billion and surround yourself with him. Put him in charge of everything from where your children go to school, to the place you work, to the government that rules your nation and live there for years. Imagine the frustration that would build knowing that everyone around you is, in essence insane and believes in things that are so ridiculous that logic cannot defend them."

I love you in the least gay way possible. Dude, that's the coolest post i've read in such a long time. Keep it up. Reason, logic, and science above superstition any day. :-D

[abulfares]

I don't have a problem with people believing in a supreme being. I find it silly, but I'm OK with it. What I do have a problem with is religion, mythology, denial of reality (evolution), Creationism. If you decide that the world looks designed, fine. But if you start telling me stories about how there is a loving and caring God who watches all of our actions, punishes and rewards us, answers our prayers, then I have a huge problem. A grown man who still believes in fairy tales, you bet I have a problem with that. These are the same grown men who get elected into office, run my life, teach classes and god knows what else. I don't want to live in the world where people choose to believe in absurdities.

Point of view of an atheist (this is how I feel every day):

"You have to try to imagine this from the point of view of the atheist: to an atheist any religious belief is akin to belief in the easter bunny. They view it as archaic superstition that has no basis in reality, and seems, to the atheist, childish. How would you react to a forty-year-old man who tried to convince you that if you put teeth under you pillow that there would be money there in the morning? Then imagine that this man, who otherwise posseses common sense, tries to give you rules upon which you should base your life, and that even if you think that you are happy you are only fooling yourself. Now take this man, multiply him by 6 billion and surround yourself with him. Put him in charge of everything from where your children go to school, to the place you work, to the government that rules your nation and live there for years. Imagine the frustration that would build knowing that everyone around you is, in essence insane and believes in things that are so ridiculous that logic cannot defend them."

Thank you, now u r making yourself more understood. I didn't find your earlier posts nearly as reasonable as this one.

[shakey_snake]

I don't have a problem with people believing in a supreme being. I find it silly, but I'm OK with it. What I do have a problem with is religion, mythology, denial of reality (evolution), Creationism. If you decide that the world looks designed, fine. But if you start telling me stories about how there is a loving and caring God who watches all of our actions, punishes and rewards us, answers our prayers, then I have a huge problem. A grown man who still believes in fairy tales, you bet I have a problem with that. These are the same grown men who get elected into office, run my life, teach classes and god knows what else. I don't want to live in the world where people choose to believe in absurdities.

So from above you believe that religion is:

• "silly"
  
• "denial of reality"
  
• "stories"
  
• not something for a "grown man"
  
• "fairy tales"
  
• "absurd"
  

Anything else to add to the list?

[PricklyPoo]

just like diagnosing someone with depression, u can't see it and u can't touch it, but evidence suggests that its there and doctors prescribe medicines for it

Exactly....only that evidence isn't there when it comes to god.

[Kirkburn]

So from above you believe that religion is:

• "silly"
  
• "denial of reality"
  
• "stories"
  
• not something for a "grown man"
  
• "fairy tales"
  
• "absurd"
  

Anything else to add to the list?

Oh, we're not allowed to say those things? Should we make a list of words religious people can't say about atheism, even though it's what you would describe it as?

One does not need to automatically respect religions, it should stand up on it's own accord and earn it.

Rebuke those terms.

[PricklyPoo]

Oh, we're not allowed to say those things?

Of course not, those words are off-limits when it comes to religion. :shifty:

[shakey_snake]

Oh, we're not allowed to say those things?

Who said that?

I thought you were supposed to be the rational one?

[Darksoft]

Oh, we're not allowed to say those things? Should we make a list of words religious people can't say about atheism, even though it's what you would describe it as?

One does not need to automatically respect religions, it should stand up on it's own accord and earn it.

Rebuke those terms.

I don't owe respect to religion. For some reason people seem to feel entitled to that respect. I understand that I don't have the right to harass a person because of his or her beliefs but goddamn it, it's stupid at the end of the day in my eyes. :p

[Kirkburn]

I thought you were supposed to be the rational one?

What, so someone picking a list of terms from a quote isn't supposed to mean anything? What was his point then?

Why list them if he has no problem with them? If he does have a problem with them, he should be giving reasons why.

Otherwise, it was a meaningless post.

[shakey_snake]

What, so someone picking a list of terms from a quote isn't supposed to mean anything? What was his point then?

I wanted to know if remix17 had any other specific grievances he might have left out.

Hence the question: "Anything else to add to the list?"

remix and I have spent many posts talking about his very subject, I'm just trying to make sure I don't jump to any conclusions before I form a rebuttal.

Maybe, for brevity and accuracy's sakes, you could attempt to be more careful with your posts?

[Munkyman]

Maybe it is me but this does not seem in the slightest to be about multiple religions. It is a Christian day trying very hard not to mention the word Christian. It was created by politicians, has no history and doesn't feel the slightest bit religous :huh:

Just seems like a really dumb idea for a holiday.

[Kirkburn]

I wanted to know if remix17 had any other specific grievances he might have left out.

remix and I have spent many posts talking about his very subject, I'm just trying to make sure I don't jump to any conclusions before I form a rebuttal.

I truly do not believe that for a second, and I really don't believe anyone else will either.

[PricklyPoo]

I wanted to know if remix17 had any other specific grievances he might have left out.

Hence the question: "Anything else to add to the list?"

remix and I have spent many posts talking about his very subject, I'm just trying to make sure I don't jump to any conclusions before I form a rebuttal.

Maybe, for brevity and accuracy's sakes, you could attempt to be more careful with your posts?

:rolleyes:

It is a Christian day trying very hard not to mention the word Christian.

My thoughts exactly.

[grimman]

Like professor Dawkins says; religion has had a free ride for far too long now. Why, when we are free to criticise just about everything else, should religion not be expected to be able to stand up for itself?

[betasp]

Like professor Dawkins says; religion has had a free ride for far too long now. Why, when we are free to criticise just about everything else, should religion not be expected to be able to stand up for itself?

When you go around quoting scripture, you further my argument that atheism itself can be defined as a religion.

Religion: A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Lack of religion is not a religion. Lack of belief isn't a belief.

[grimman]

When you go around quoting scripture, you further my argument that atheism itself can be defined as a religion.

Religion: A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience.

It's a quote. It illustrates a point.

[Crompee]

Ive never understood religion or at least the idea of 'organised religion'.

I cant even begin to grasp how any man (or woman) alive today can say they are christian.. (Using Christianity as an example, as im british and its the religion i naturally know most about) when if you ask them any questions about the bible or religious teachings they cant tell you without reading up on it. When, isnt it logically that if you believe in the christian god and the idea of Heaven/Hell.. then wouldnt you do every single thing in the bible weither its legal or not? I Know if i believed the bible was the word of God.. i'd go and stone every homosexual i saw, i'd spend the rest of my life in jail with the belief i was going to heaven and having passed God's test.

While 99.9% of religious people will put the laws of man ahead of the laws of god for an easier life.

[brentaal]

When you go around quoting scripture, you further my argument that atheism itself can be defined as a religion.

Your argument is flawed to start with. Anything can be considered a religion using that logic of yours. Even not believing in Santa.

[betasp]

Your argument is flawed to start with. Anything can be considered a religion using that logic of yours. Even not believing in Santa.

Have there been books about not believing in Santa? Are there gatherings to discuss not believing in Santa? Does everyone that does not believe in Santa follow the same principles? Can you cite any not believing in Santa specific books? How 'bout a good quote from one of those....

/sarcasm rulez

//I have nothing against atheism, just some that follow it

///notice I have not stated anything about my beliefs

////Atheists can be just like religious sheep

[ncoday]

It is almost laughable as all forms of law that I know of can trace their roots back to religion, of some form or another

[Knife Party]

oh the irony Mr.Bush :laugh:

[brentaal]

Have there been books about not believing in Santa?

No, but there are books like I Believe in Santa Claus. Obviously, if you reject belief in Santa at the same time you accept the belief that there is no Santa. So, one part of your definition of religion is fulfilled.

Are there gatherings to discuss not believing in Santa?

We're doing that right now.

Does everyone that does not believe in Santa follow the same principles?

Yep, they do. That principle being "I don't believe in Santa", pretty much like "I don't believe in god/gods".

Can you cite any not believing in Santa specific books? How 'bout a good quote from one of those....

Haven't found any books, but there are writings (which fits into your definition). For example, this one

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species

of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are

insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer

which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT

since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and

Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378

million according to the Population Reference Reference Bureau. At an

average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million

homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

It's clear this text tries to make you believe there is no Santa. Obviously a religion.