Star Trek Into Darkness

[Dot Matrix]

Warp isn't different, its just stylised differently to set the old and new movies apart.

In Admiral Marcus office you could see models of the ships and the NX-01 was there so its still Zephram Cochranes warp drive.

The NX Class still pre-dates Nero's incursion.

[jakem1]

I didn't get the bit where they were surprised to be overtaken at warp speed. They said that it wasn't possible and then Marcus's daughter said that the Vengeance included advanced warp capabilities or something. It gave the impression that warp speed is considered a constant in the new ST (i.e. no warp factors). The only other explanation is that they thought that the Enterprise was the fastest ship in Starfleet but it certainly wasn't clear.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I didn't get the bit where they were surprised to be overtaken at warp speed. They said that it wasn't possible and then Marcus's daughter said that the Vengeance included advanced warp capabilities or something. It gave the impression that warp speed is considered a constant in the new ST (i.e. no warp factors). The only other explanation is that they thought that the Enterprise was the fastest ship in Starfleet but it certainly wasn't clear.

I interpreted that to mean that the Enterprise was the fastest known ship in the fleet but the Vengeance was even more advanced, which I think is the most logical assumption. The alternate timeline is still canonical, so warp speeds wouldn't simply have become a constant.

[Dashel]

I took that to be the latter too, it was simply the faster ship (they mentioned as much earlier and given the FX when it knocked Ent.out of warp). I didn't like that line though, made it sound more SW in that you can't 'interact' in hyperspace.

[TheLegendOfMart]

The NX Class still pre-dates Nero's incursion.

I understand that I'm just saying the warp drive continued to be developed as it is in the prime universe, it looks different because it is a reboot nothing more.

[Dot Matrix]

I'm still under the impression that the new warp drives utilize some sort of transwarp technology built by data taken of Nero's ship (Which was augmented with Borg technology) and reverse engineered.

It seems that Enterprise is able to traverse vast distances in shorter amounts of time compared to the previous timeline.

[DocM]

Enterprise was built before Scotty was given the transwarp formula by Spock Prime in the first film so it doesn't have it - yet.

Khan was awakened to make new combat dreadnoughts for Section 31, and likely incorporated an improved version of transwarp into USS Vengeance during its construction at Jupiter Station.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Was the Vengeance more advanced, or just a purely combat focused ship? My impression was the latter.

Both. It had more advanced technology (better shields, weapons, faster warp drive, and better transporter capability) and it was designed to be a warship. That's why it had more automated systems so the ship could be operated by a smaller crew.

I'm still under the impression that the new warp drives utilize some sort of transwarp technology built by data taken of Nero's ship (Which was augmented with Borg technology) and reverse engineered.

It seems that Enterprise is able to traverse vast distances in shorter amounts of time compared to the previous timeline.

I doubt it because the Narada used borg nanoprobes to achieve transwarp speeds. I think it has more to do with the pacing of the movie.

It seemed like the Enterprise went from Kronos to Earth in a short amount of time. I'm guessing J.J. Abrams decided to speed that part up for the sake of the action.

Aside from future Scotty's transwarp beaming formula, the Abrams' Star Trek reality seems to be technologically inferior to the main universe. I mentioned this in an earlier post but I'm guessing the destruction of Vulcan as well as the USS Kelvin contributed to the technological inferiority. In the first movie, the Enterprise had many warp reactors that made up the warp core. In Star Trek Into Darkness,

the Enterprise has one single warp core that has to be shielded to prevent radiation leakage. The only thing more advanced than TOS ships in the main universe is the USS Vengeance. Whether or not it's faster than say the Enterprise-E (Sovereign class) remains to be seen. Also, Khan mentioned something about radiation or magnetic interference in the USS Vengeance's warp core so the technology is still quite similar. Transwarp is so advanced that only the Borg and one or two other delta quadrant races used it.

[Dashel]

I guess I'm saying the Vengeance was more evolutionary than revolutionary per the other poster's point. I agree with your prior post.

I really don't like the idea of transwarp, especially in this timeline, regardless of whatever future tech could have been gleaned from the scans of the Narada and opened up new areas of question (Terminator2)...I agree with Anaron that it doesn't seem to offset the technological loss of Vulcan and the alternate timeline seems too primitive to have such tech, let alone have the materials and production ability to use it.

I'm more of the theory that JJ really doesn't get the difference between hyperspace and warp factors, which means the Vengeance was only 'slightly' faster than the Enterprise if it took the entire trip to Earth to catch them.

[DocM]

Remember this has alt-timeline elements from 2 previous films; Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock. I took USS Vengeance to be this timelines version of USS Excelsior (a transwarp ship) from Search for Spock, but this time Scotty didn't sabotage the transwarp - he hitchhiked and sabotaged the hatch so Kirk and Khan could board her.

Also, in the real world warp theory has develpped since the 1980's.

To do warp drive you create a spacetime bubble around your ship and do not move within that bubble, therefore you are not going faster than light within your local spacetime. This does not, however, prevent that spacete bubble from moving at superluminal speeds within another larger spacetime bubble (the universe). It is not matter with mass & inertia and therefore speed constraints, but a massless (in this universe) quantum fluctuation that can "tunnel" through space.

In the Trek universe transwarp ships can apparently penetrate that warp bubble.

[RageOfFury]

I saw it again today. It's an awesome movie, I very much enjoyed it. But I grew up with the Shatner's & Stewart's Star Trek movies so these 2 new ones take some getting use to. They are growing on me a lot.

[Dashel]

Remember this has alt-timeline elements from 2 previous films; Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock I took USS Vengeance to be this timelines version of USS Excelsior from Search for Spock, but this time Scotty didn't sabotage the transwarp - he hitchhiked and sabotaged the hatch so Kirk and Khan cojld board her.

Thats a good point, except I still don't like comparing it with that timeline (as some reviewers have done due to some synchronistic elements).

[DocM]

Thats a good point, except I still don't like comparing it with that timeline (as some reviewers have done due to some synchronistic elements).

1) doesn't matter what they say, it is what it is. The parallels are too clear.

2) movie reviewers are almost universally twits, incapable of getting alt-timeline stories. At all. The same ones will bust a hernia over Days of Future Past. Ignore them.

[Dashel]

I hear you. Where I see consistency in the parallels, some see a rehash/remake.

Spock v Khan was always an interesting question.

[DocM]

I hear you. Where I see consistency in the parallels, some see a rehash/remake.

Spock v Khan was always an interesting question.

It was cool, but some gals also aren't to be trifled with :ninja:

[Rappy Veteran]

[Dinggus]

I never followed Star Trek, but just watch the movies for entertainment. I just had a few questions from the movie.

1. Khan, why was he so evil?

2. Why did Khan and his crew go to sleep?

3. How did the Admiral find him and his crew and why did he just wake up Khan?

[TheLegendOfMart]

I think you are all reading too much into the warp thing, they have shortened the time it takes to get anywhere purely for storytelling circumstances, I don't think people at the cinema want to see them all sat in chairs for days while the ship makes its way to Qu'onos.

I never followed Star Trek, but just watch the movies for entertainment. I just had a few questions from the movie.

1. Khan, why was he so evil?

2. Why did Khan and his crew go to sleep?

3. How did the Admiral find him and his crew and why did he just wake up Khan?

1. They were all genetically engineered people that fought in the Eugenics Wars, they were engineered to be aggressive and lack compassion like a perfect soldier.

2. Khan ruled a lot of continents during the Eugenic Wars, after the war all the genetically engineered people were sentenced to death, Khan escaped on an old sleeper ship with some of his followers and they put themselves into cryogenic sleep and the ship drifted for centuries.

3. Admiral Marcus was probably looking for them and its unclear how he found them, he woke up Khan to make him design a warship to help in the inevitable war with the Klingons

[Dinggus]

1. They were all genetically engineered people that fought in the Eugenics Wars, they were engineered to be aggressive and lack compassion like a perfect soldier.

2. Khan ruled a lot of continents during the Eugenic Wars, after the war all the genetically engineered people were sentenced to death, Khan escaped on an old sleeper ship with some of his followers and they put themselves into cryogenic sleep and the ship drifted for centuries.

3. Admiral Marcus was probably looking for them and its unclear how he found them, he woke up Khan to make him design a warship to help in the inevitable war with the Klingons

Thank you for answering that. Did the movie explain that? I just remember them explaining that

Khan and his crew were exiled and they put themselves to sleep, then the Admiral found them and woke Khan up to build weapons for the war, which seemed like the Admiral was wanting, not that it was inevitable.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Thank you for answering that. Did the movie explain that? I just remember them explaining that

Khan and his crew were exiled and they put themselves to sleep, then the Admiral found them and woke Khan up to build weapons for the war, which seemed like the Admiral was wanting, not that it was inevitable.

It did explain that Khan was genetically engineered but said nothing about the eugenics wars.

The Admiral did want weapons but when he was explaining his actions to Kirk near the end he said war with the Klingons was inevitable, he wanted a warship and Kirk to provoke the Klingons into war on his own terms rather than theirs.

[episode]

Thank you for answering that. Did the movie explain that?

Khan's in depth backstory was explained in his previous appearances. Look him up on Memory-alpha if you want all the details.

[Axel]

As a die hard trek fan who has seen every movie and every single episode and collected all the fact files when I was a kid... I thought the movie was pretty good.

I was a bit shocked when I saw Harrison was Khan but not disappointed as I would have been if I learnt before hand. Also, the role reversal regarding kirk/spock was sort of cheesy but a good homage and I think it was handled OK. This didn't feel like a remake of the Wrath of Khan, it felt like an entirely new story but with a familiar character. The one thing that gets me about the new franchise is how advanced all the tech is. I assumed the duration of time Nero's ship spent back in that time frame really altered the quadrant. Also. Why the hell did the Klingons have piercings in their ridges???

I need to know these things!!!

[RageOfFury]

With JJ Abrams moving on to Star Wars and

the Enterprise crew starting their 5-year mission

, I could see this Star Trek movie being the last one for quite a while. Thoughts everyone on a sequel to Into Darkness?

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

With JJ Abrams moving on to Star Wars and

the Enterprise crew starting their 5-year mission

, I could see this Star Trek movie being the last one for quite a while. Thoughts everyone on a sequel to Into Darkness?

It may be awhile and I'd rather wait longer if J.J. Abrams directs it. He's going to direct the next Star Wars movie so I wouldn't expect another Star Trek movie, directed by him, for at least another 6 years. It took 4 years for the sequel to be released but who knows, we might get another one in less than 4 years.

As for what the sequel will be about, it could be something totally new or it could be something we've already seen in the main TOS universe (e.g. V'Ger, Sybok, General Chang).

[Growled Member]

Thoughts everyone on a sequel to Into Darkness?

Maybe the Enterprise will cause a hole in the fabric of time and space and those events bring us back to the real Star Trek universe.