Website owners ready to sue the developers of Adblock extension

[trieste]

I am a proud user of Adblock Plus, and am also happy to state that I specifically added Neowin.net to my exception list.

[stevember]

I will never block Internet adverts.

All you people that do should be thankful people like me don't.

[ccuk]

Hold on, flip your argument around... what exactly would a webmaster get from setting up a website then? A warm glow inside and a $1200 hole in their pocket every month, just for the privilege of allowing you and others to 'contribute' your amazing commentary in their forums?

Please post the link to your forums, which I assume you run out of your own pocket, with no ads and no monetary incentive.

Ultimately traffic doesn't mean anything on the internet unless it translates to income at some point. Sites like Youtube, Digg and others are proving this as they have a hard time finding ways to actually monetize and therefore continue running their service. The more traffic to a site there is, the more work it creates and the more time it takes to administer, not to mention the extra server costs. And again, you're saying a webmaster would foot the bill for all this, not to mention the time and effort, just because... well really, I don't understand, why would they do it?

Clearly your hostility has clouded your ability to read. I said that the staff should give up their "income" generated from the ads to foot the bill for server costs. This is a community driven site, not a multi million dollar tech site. If all the users leave, Neowin has nothing in terms of revenue or in terms of content to draw in new users. How is that so hard to grasp?

Also pedantic and condescending comments don't become you. Somewhere along your ego trip you forgot this is a forum, a place where the user base make the content, not the governing body of moderators.

And on a final note as I said before, if you offer something people want, the users will pay. One has to ask why users are frequenting this board less and what can be done to change that, and this is more than a shiny face lift. Users aren't stupid. If you get the formula right, you get the revenue required to run the site and whole lot more. Also using Neowin as an example, what are you offering that no other tech site offers? Not a whole lot.

[7Dash8]

And somewhere in your self-serving comments, you forgot to answer the question I posed which is why exactly would anyone set up a website if all it meant was a ton of work, a big bill every month, and a bunch of users clamoring for more content and demanding the right to use your site however they see fit.

As for your argument that "if you offer something people want, the users will pay", do you mean like great quality games or movies - which are pirated to hell and back (even without DRM, like Demigod) - or do you mean one of the millions of websites where users pay for content (hint: this is sarcasm... name three popular websites where anyone pays for the content).

The simple fact is that people will do whatever they want on the Internet just because they can and not because they should. You don't go to work for free, so why expect webmasters and people who write articles on neowin and the many sites like it to work for free just for your amusement? The forums here are only one part of the site, you forget that quality original content on the front page takes time and effort to produce.

If you wonder why more sites are going down the toilet quality-wise, look no further than the fact that if the pay is peanuts, you wind up with monkeys.

[Steven P. Administrators]

If you wonder why more sites are going down the toilet quality-wise, look no further than the fact that if the pay is peanuts, you wind up with monkeys.

QFT

[ccuk]

And somewhere in your self-serving comments, you forgot to answer the question I posed which is why exactly would anyone set up a website if all it meant was a ton of work, a big bill every month, and a bunch of users clamoring for more content and demanding the right to use your site however they see fit.

As for your argument that "if you offer something people want, the users will pay", do you mean like great quality games or movies - which are pirated to hell and back (even without DRM, like Demigod) - or do you mean one of the millions of websites where users pay for content (hint: this is sarcasm... name three popular websites where anyone pays for the content).

The simple fact is that people will do whatever they want on the Internet just because they can and not because they should. You don't go to work for free, so why expect webmasters and people who write articles on neowin and the many sites like it to work for free just for your amusement? The forums here are only one part of the site, you forget that quality original content on the front page takes time and effort to produce.

If you wonder why more sites are going down the toilet quality-wise, look no further than the fact that if the pay is peanuts, you wind up with monkeys.

No... They go down the toilet because people become greedy. You keep going on about self serving yet everything you keep going on about is money and more money. If someone wants to start a business using a forum as a base... Good luck as the .com bubble burst years ago. You are basing all this on assumptions and hearsay as far as I can tell. You assume that because someone can pirate some material everyone is: Paranoia is the crux of the insecure.

Why would someone set up a site? As a hobby? Because they have a passion for a certain subject matter and wish to share that with the internet community and world? Or maybe as a business? So many different reasons, but I think there needs to be a clear line at which point you decide what route the site is going to take and make that clear to the user base. Also where have I said that I block the ads on Neowin or run any adblocker? Where have I said I wouldn't donate money to sites I frequent? Why is it I am the self serving one when all you keep going on about is making money as a webmaster.

Your constant ear bashing and bickering is really starting to annoy. I would appreciate it if you change the tone of your posts you are directing at me. All I am doing is trying to show you the other side of the coin because it feels like you are very one track minded with regards to the ad blocking issue.

[Pablo2008jedi]

This may sound harsh, but if sites started to block FireFOx (some do) due to Adblock then thats up to them. I won't miss out on much. If I really need access to the site I'll use IE ...NOT!! I'll just not visit. I don't mind Ads, what I do mind are the big flashing ads, and FLASH Ads that totally draw your eye away....flashing away like mad is very distracting and I would never view that site again.

Some sites have more Ads per page than actual content!

As said previously I would just have used a HOST file if I didn't have Adblock :)

[Steeley]

I don't block them anymore since I switched away from using Firefox. I find it pretty simple in that if a site has too many obtrusive ads I find an alternative. The internet is so huge these days that there's an alternative for every site in existence. I've found the worst culprits are the news sites.

Having said that it's actually sad that advertising has penetrated so deeply into our lives these days. We're literally witnessing the first generation of kids who are victims of direct marketing from birth, which is just scary. We're all made to believe what we have isn't good enough and are always seeking the next latest innovation or fashion and we're racking ourselves in debt just to keep up with the joneses. Twenty years ago if you asked someone to define 'saving' they tell you it's accumulating money in the bank for a rainy day. Ask young people these days and they'll tell you it's how much you can get off RRP at the post-christmas sales. Now advertising is marketed directly at kids marketers have realised they have pestering powers over their parents. And now we're seeing things like g-strings and padded bra's for eight year olds thanks to advertising brainwashing us into thinking we need it. An adult that's attracted to kids is called a pedophile, but what do you call the advertisers that market clothing to make kids sexually attractive?

Long story short, I mightn't block ads but more power to the people that do. Advertising is at the heart of the mess we're all in right now.

[Pupik]

QFT

Are you saying that "you" don't pay enough to the writers of Neowin?

[Pablo2008jedi]

Long story short, I mightn't block ads but more power to the people that do. Advertising is at the heart of the mess we're all in right now.

QFT!

[Steven P. Administrators]

Are you saying that "you" don't pay enough to the writers of Neowin?

I'd like to pay them more than they currently earn per article, yes!

[x-byte]

Have Neowin looked at letting readers donate? It might not be a stable income, but I think many would like the option if it help reduce the ads or help pay writers more.

[Brian M. Veteran]

Have Neowin looked at letting readers donate? It might not be a stable income, but I think many would like the option if it help reduce the ads or help pay writers more.

Members already can donate/subscribe: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?act=...&CODE=index

One of the subscription options removes the ads from the site for you.

[bdsams Veteran]

Are you saying that "you" don't pay enough to the writers of Neowin?

before i say anything, i know nothing about how much money is made here or how much it costs to run a site like this so this is strictly my opinion

news writers are well aware that they are not making boatloads for writing here...an extra pizza or two a month. Most writers, like myself, are here because we enjoy it, youd be surprised how much fun it can be to scower the web for the next hot news topic or try to beat the other sites to breaking news...when neowin is the first to report something its an awsome feeling. A few writers will move on from neowin to full time paying gigs and use this site to build their skill sets and learn the skills of the trade (and how to deal with the commentors who are nothing but sharks... its also good to know that if i need help with anything tech related there are tons of users who will give free and mostly usefull advice, sure as heck beats paying geek squad to fix something!

[Digitalx]

lol "website owners" turn into RIAA/MPAA using similar legal tactics. Seriously it's the choice of the end user and considering past records with adverts and malware etc if it's harming them financially then reform the focus of their website away from financial incentives. At end of the day it's the individual user who should have a choice to turn adverts off considering we're bombarded with them in real life and sometimes you just want a break from them.

[Steven P. Administrators]

lol "website owners" turn into RIAA/MPAA using similar legal tactics.

Oh yes :devil: if you share a webpage on Neowin we'll have all 50 odd staff round your house with baseball bats and a court order :devil:

:p :whistle:

[Miuku.]

Oh yes :devil: if you share a webpage on Neowin we'll have all 50 odd staff round your house with baseball bats and a court order :devil:

I can see you have that grin prepared on your FB account :shiftyninja:

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

Pardon me if I sound like a sceptic here, but the original news item just talks about "[h]undreds of webmasters around the world [being] ready to sue". There are no quotations cited in the article from any of these webmasters. If there are so many out there organising to take coordinated legal action, I'd be amazed. I think this article is bogus.

Until I see a lawsuit filed in a court in the US or elsewhere, I'm simply not going to believe it. The whole thing seems absurd IMO. :rolleyes:

[x-byte]

Members already can donate/subscribe: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?act=...&CODE=index

One of the subscription options removes the ads from the site for you.

Nice, never seen that. Not very promoting though. Maybe also give non members the option as well...

[jakem1]

While I've had issues regarding the quality of Neowin of late, I agree 100% with Neobond on this issue.

There is a culture of pure ignorance and greed on the part of most web users these days. They seem to have absolutely no understanding of the way the Internet actually works, and in fact they don't actually care as long as they can get whatever they want for free. All you hear is lame excuses as to why people should be allowed to have everything and anything without contributing anything towards it.

Well the fact is that people use adblock to block ads on sites which don't have annoying advertising, and they're steadily putting a range of quality sites out of business. Ever stop to think how a website owner pays their bills? If you want quality content you have to do something to contribute, whether it's subscribing or viewing the ads on a site, or even sending a donation. Since most people don't do any of these things, really they have a lot to answer for.

I hope this lawsuit has an impact at least on the way people think and opens their eyes to the real world, where nothing is really free, everything has a price.

When it comes to sites like Neowin, there's one important point that you're ignoring in your haste to insult as many people as possible. You, me and everyone posting in these threads is contributing to the success of this site by generating the content that it relies upon. Now if I was to follow your logic, Neowin should be paying me for this comment.

Obviously my comments don't pay the bills at Neowin directly but the fact remains that I'm creating some of the content that makes up this website. Should I be paid for taking the time to write this comment or should Neowin be paid for providing the textbox that I'm typing in considering that we both benefit?

You see, everything has a price.

Edit: I see you've made the same mistake again later on

Uh no, it's not. Neowin gives you information and a place to discuss things with other people. What do you give neowin? It's not a two way street at all "in all fairness".

Care to retract that statement?

Edited June 23, 2009 by jakem1

[7Dash8]

When it comes to sites like Neowin, there's one important point that you're ignoring in your haste to insult as many people as possible. You, me and everyone posting in these threads is contributing to the success of this site by generating the content that it relies upon. Now if I was to follow your logic, Neowin should be paying me for this comment.

Obviously my comments don't pay the bills at Neowin directly but the fact remains that I'm creating some of the content that makes up this website. Should I be paid for taking the time to write this comment or should Neowin be paid for providing the textbox that I'm typing in considering that we both benefit?

You see, everything has a price.

The comments you contribute to this forum ultimately have your name on them, and you gain fame or infamy as a result. However by the same logic some of you are posting in this thread, if you didn't post a comment in the forums, someone else would have, so you are expendable. That's what you guys are saying whenever you say "oh if a site started charging me or forcing me to view ads, I'd find another site". Works both ways... I would wager 90% of the people who post on these forums post nothing more than what is mostly throwaway comments of little value. You could probably get a team of blind chimps to post the same stuff in their place if they ever left.

This issue is about quality not quantity. You want a site with great quality, with decent news coverage, with insightful editorials and hosted on a fast and responsive server? Well guess what, all of that costs money, and no my friend, at the end of the day a webmaster is not providing all this just so he or she can go to sleep at night with a warm feeling inside. I never said money is the primary motivation, what I said is that money is a key consideration. Tons of traffic with no income is not a viable proposition for a successful website.

But please, don't let my logic get in the way of your arguments to satisfy your desire to get whatever you want without cost. I see it all the time when it comes to the piracy argument... people spinning all sorts of BS to justify their desire to download gigabytes of movies and music and games without contributing a cent to those who created that content. It's gotten so that the idiocy of it all makes me wonder if there are any intelligent or decent people who post on forums anymore, or is it just spoilt whiny brats who think everything should be handed to them on a platter?

Either way I don't speak for Neowin or any other site, I'll just sit back and watch the web turn into a dump and know precisely how it got that way.

[boogerjones]

Hmmm, somehow this thread turned into a discussion about Neowin, but I wonder if the Adblock dev's will have the money to defend themselves here. There's no way the case has any real legal ground. I'd donate if need be.

[jakem1]

The comments you contribute to this forum ultimately have your name on them, and you gain fame or infamy as a result. However by the same logic some of you are posting in this thread, if you didn't post a comment in the forums, someone else would have, so you are expendable. That's what you guys are saying whenever you say "oh if a site started charging me or forcing me to view ads, I'd find another site". Works both ways... I would wager 90% of the people who post on these forums post nothing more than what is mostly throwaway comments of little value. You could probably get a team of blind chimps to post the same stuff in their place if they ever left.

This issue is about quality not quantity. You want a site with great quality, with decent news coverage, with insightful editorials and hosted on a fast and responsive server? Well guess what, all of that costs money, and no my friend, at the end of the day a webmaster is not providing all this just so he or she can go to sleep at night with a warm feeling inside. I never said money is the primary motivation, what I said is that money is a key consideration. Tons of traffic with no income is not a viable proposition for a successful website.

But please, don't let my logic get in the way of your arguments to satisfy your desire to get whatever you want without cost. I see it all the time when it comes to the piracy argument... people spinning all sorts of BS to justify their desire to download gigabytes of movies and music and games without contributing a cent to those who created that content. It's gotten so that the idiocy of it all makes me wonder if there are any intelligent or decent people who post on forums anymore, or is it just spoilt whiny brats who think everything should be handed to them on a platter?

Either way I don't speak for Neowin or any other site, I'll just sit back and watch the web turn into a dump and know precisely how it got that way.

This is just silly and you are being really unnecessarily rude.

I don't know about you but I don't post here for fame or infamy. I post here to engage with other people in discussions about topics that I'm interested in. As others have said, I only ever visit the forums and never read news or editorials on this site. I might be "expendable" as you put it and perhaps a team of monkeys could reproduce my comments but I'm sure Neowin wouldn't be too happy to lose all their commenters. The death of these forums would mark the death of Neowin and you'd be a fool not to acknowledge that.

Your quality vs. quantity argument is equally nonsensical. Are you suggesting that you don't ever enjoy browsing or replying to threads in the forums? Is there no quality content being generated by users here? Why do you feel that Neowin don't gain any value from the forums and, if they are so worthless, why do you think Neowin bother running them? I'd suggest that you are the one who is ignoring facts to support a dodgy argument.

I don't suppose you disable the fast forward button on all remotec ontrols in your home do you? If not, why?

[protocol7]

Having said that it's actually sad that advertising has penetrated so deeply into our lives these days. We're literally witnessing the first generation of kids who are victims of direct marketing from birth, which is just scary. We're all made to believe what we have isn't good enough and are always seeking the next latest innovation or fashion and we're racking ourselves in debt just to keep up with the joneses. Twenty years ago if you asked someone to define 'saving' they tell you it's accumulating money in the bank for a rainy day. Ask young people these days and they'll tell you it's how much you can get off RRP at the post-christmas sales. Now advertising is marketed directly at kids marketers have realised they have pestering powers over their parents. And now we're seeing things like g-strings and padded bra's for eight year olds thanks to advertising brainwashing us into thinking we need it. An adult that's attracted to kids is called a pedophile, but what do you call the advertisers that market clothing to make kids sexually attractive?

Long story short, I mightn't block ads but more power to the people that do. Advertising is at the heart of the mess we're all in right now.

Well done. You put that better than I could have. I was going to rant a little about the pervasiveness of advertising last night but it was late so I stepped back and caughts some z's. I also find the financial "grooming" of children by girls magazines etc as particularly vile. Makes me wonder what kind of people concoct this stuff and if they have children of their own.

With TV and radio we're bombarded with ads 24/7. We have little control over content there as all we can do is channel-skip and hope we don't run into more ads on the other station. But on the internet we have greater control over content and that's one of the reasons I love it.

[7Dash8]

This is just silly and you are being really unnecessarily rude.

I don't know about you but I don't post here for fame or infamy. I post here to engage with other people in discussions about topics that I'm interested in. As others have said, I only ever visit the forums and never read news or editorials on this site. I might be "expendable" as you put it and perhaps a team of monkeys could reproduce my comments but I'm sure Neowin wouldn't be too happy to lose all their commenters. The death of these forums would mark the death of Neowin and you'd be a fool not to acknowledge that.

Similarly, the death of most of the income to neowin will result in a continuing decline in the actual front page news (one reason many of us come here by the way), and a continued slip into craptitude from the somewhat weak editorials already on display. Imagine if Neowin had 5 million members and not enough money to actually pay for server power to accommodate them... where would Neowin be then?

Your quality vs. quantity argument is equally nonsensical. Are you suggesting that you don't ever enjoy browsing or replying to threads in the forums? Is there no quality content being generated by users here? Why do you feel that Neowin don't gain any value from the forums and, if they are so worthless, why do you think Neowin bother running them? I'd suggest that you are the one who is ignoring facts to support a dodgy argument.

I don't speak for Neowin, ask Neobond why he runs them. I personally find only a small fraction of the comments and threads genuinely useful. Take a quick look at Back Page News content right now, and most of the threads are misleading, sensationalist and ultimately pointless discussions, usually leading to flamewars between fanboys and people posting absolute garbage. The aim should be to weed out the crap and increase the good stuff. A thousand idiotic posts do not a good forum make.

The only dodgy argument I see is that people somehow expect webmasters to provide them with a service for which they pay absolutely nothing in return. What's more, they continue to demand more and more from websites... more functionality, more speed, more content... and yet more and more users block the very source of income sites use to do just that, advertising. Tell me how that's not a dodgy proposition if ever I've heard one.

I don't suppose you disable the fast forward button on all remotec ontrols in your home do you? If not, why?

No idea what you're talking about here. If you mean do I skip the ads on TV, no I watch them as they play. I don't record much TV, I generally watch DVD movies. And yes, I pay to buy those movies or rent them. I know, it's shocking isn't it, I'm one of the poor schmucks who actually pays for my entertainment, fancy that.