sc302 Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 But the "computer" lacks the ability to anticipate the corner. With a manual the driver chooses the proper gear before the corner while in the braking portion. He can then maintain that gear throughout the entirety of the corner and feed back on the power as he chooses while accelerating out. With an auto, the transmission must search for what it "thinks" might be the proper gear for the corner often during the cornering part itself or the acceleration out of the corner exactly the situation where you do not want to upset the balance of the car by having the transmission shift into a different gear. I can shift more precisely than a computer; into precisely the proper gear for the corner that is. If I can't beat the computers speed than I will make it up in finer control, lower weight and less parasitic power loss. You better believe that you can. I am not talking about leave it in D and go. I am talking about a auto transmission that you have to manually switch gears (ie. semi auto, tiptronic, F1 transmissions for example which have migrated their ways to everyday cars). please read this for your learning experiance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiptronic read the transmission section here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car You are confusing what you believe to be an auto transmission (every day grand ma/grand pa transmission leave it in D and hit the gas) to a different type of auto transmission. After you read that what is your definition of automatic? Some cars that have these types of transmissions as optional from the factory: Hyundai Tiburon BMW 3 series Porsche (all of them, well maybe not the Cheyenne) Mercedes 2008 Ford Focus There are quite a few more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 in after "manual vs auto" debate... (you will never shift faster and more precise than a computer). Sure they (usually) shift faster, but it comes at the cost of taking away the fun and the whole idea of being the driver. If I was a race car driver, then I'll consider what you said because performance is your number 1 priority. But as a car enthusiast, being involved as a driver is what matters to me. Call me insane but I honestly would have more fun driving a s2000 or Elise than any automatic-equipped Porsche. You better believe that you can. I am not talking about leave it in D and go. I am talking about a auto transmission that you have to manually switch gears (ie. semi auto, tiptronic, F1 transmissions for example which have migrated their ways to everyday cars).... After you read that what is your definition of automatic? Most of them don't even let you bounce at the rev limiter. They usually shift for you if your revs are too high or low. Then there's the reality check: Automatic transmissions mechanically don't have gears, it's all clutch plates. So what are these gears that you go through? And don't even get me started on CVT :wacko: My definition of an automatic transmission is a transmission that somewhere has a computer controlling parts of or the whole transmission. You are not doing the actual shifting. All you're doing is telling the transmission to shift, and it may or may not listen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Then there's the reality check: Automatic transmissions mechanically don't have gears, it's all clutch plates looks like gears to me, unless I am not looking at that right. lets look at another, still looks like gears lets look at one more, looks like gears here too and they will bounce the rev limiter. they are semi autos that you control when they shift not the other way around. they may not let you put it in first gear if you are at 110mph, but they will let you down shift as low as it can go without hurting itself. but you can hit the rev limiter and keep it there indefinatly (or until something breaks which ever comes first). This isn't CVT or anything close to it. The only thing that the computer controls in manual mode is disengaging one gear and engaging another, you control when and where it shifts, as long as you aren't going to break it. 6th gear to 3rd, sure. 4th to 2nd no problem, 6th to 1st at 110mph no way. There is a difference between semi auto and fully auto and this type of transmission has both and usually has paddle shifters or the + and -, unlike your P R N D 4 3 2 1 selector. Automatic shifter handle in a dual clutch car: Steering wheel in a dual clutch car with paddle shifters: You really don't know what you are talking about with this type of transmission, you should really stop. Edited August 14, 2009 by sc302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) looks like gears to me, unless I am not looking at that right. ... Twin-Clutch Transmission details... ... You really don't know what you are talking about with this type of transmission, you should really stop. No, you should stop because you forgot that most semi autos are Tiptronic (or Tiptronic-like), meaning they have Torque Converters. I got almost nothing against Twin-Clutch transmission, because it makes sense but it still doesn't make the ride any more fun than other semi auto's. No clutch pedal and H pattern = boring. Edited August 14, 2009 by revvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) No, you should stop because you forgot that most semi autos are Tiptronic (or Tiptronic-like), meaning they have Torque Converters.I got almost nothing against Twin-Clutch transmission, because it makes sense but it still doesn't make the ride any more fun than other semi auto's. No clutch pedal and H pattern = boring. OMG, Fkin read. They do not have a torque converter they are a clutch based system. did you read the wiki on tiptronic I posted. they are dual clutch, not torque converter based. and they are not sequential based transmissions. here is some more reading for you http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible_pg2.html Fkin read then post back when you have something intelligent to say. Edited August 14, 2009 by sc302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo11883 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'd love these features, but guess what, I can't afford them. I'm paying high monthly fees for just the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) did you read the wiki on tiptronic I posted. they are dual clutch, not torque converter based. Ok, I read it. Did you? Tiptronic, is a type of manumatic automatic transmission... the Tiptronic design is implemented using a torque converter like other automatic transmissions. ... I suggest you read HowStuffWorks.com to understand how these transmissions actually work. Most semi automatic transmissions out there are Tiptronic. All it is is a automatic transmission with a computer that sets the "gearing" for you to drive through. Edited August 14, 2009 by revvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 been there done that. do you see any sort of torque converter in any of the exploded views I posted? no there isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 You posted diagrams of a TWIN CLUTCH Transmission. Tiptronic is not a Twin Clutch transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 if i am wrong i appologize. to my knowledge it is a twin clutch system. using tiptronic as a known (however older) trans. sorry for the misinformation. i still stand a dual clutch is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvo Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Well I agree with you there. If you must go semi auto, go with twin clutch. I actually like twin clutch transmissions. They're not heavy like torque converters and there's actual gears for each gear, not some abstract bs that represents gears so mechanically it's AFAIK simpler than an auto box. There's still no clutch pedal though :/ I'd love these features, but guess what, I can't afford them. I'm paying high monthly fees for just the basics. For what car? Even the most basic compact cars have some power features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Candyman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Why do they like automatic transmission? I still don't know the answer to that question other then if they have a physical disability. I just can't wrap my head around wanting to have less involvement with driving your car. People like automatic transmissions because most people don't really like driving. They just do it to get from point A to point B. Sad, indeed, but it's a "luxury" to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chconline Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 Nowadays, being able to buy a car that has a REAL manual transmission is a luxury to car enthusiasts :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozgeek Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Some of these features are standard in most cars. My car, a 99 commodore VT have power mirrors and keyless entry. I don't care about windows because of the AC is always on. I hate to drive with the windows down, the wind mess up my hearing aids. The newer model of holden commodore have reverse sensors built in but you can buy them from Super Cheap for any car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I like power steering. Anybody else like power steering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozgeek Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Can't edit my above post but forgot my car also have power steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathefeare Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I like power steering. Anybody else like power steering? Depends on the car really. In my lighter cars I prefer no power steering. If there is a good non power steering available that is. That is getting pretty hard to find anymore though. I would not enjoy driving my grandfather's Lincoln Continental without it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajua Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I think I get what you meant, but there is a necessity for everyone. I would hate to pay for a car that, say, has electric heating on the seats (where I live the lowest temp of the year is around 10 C? at the "coldest" of times), seat-position-memory (at most, one or two people drive a car, not an army) or things like that which only add to the cost of said car. Maybe they can make a decent alarm system or add MP3 support to all the lines (at least in Mexico they don't) if they want to make useful added-value features. Oh, and don't forget the tiny and useless mini-tires than most lines have. I wish the makers would make at least room for a real spare tire... I think electric mirrors and windows are a must. And talking about manual/auto transmissions, it's a matter of taste. I prefer manual over automatic. In the end, it would be great to have various degrees of customization like we have with some computers manufacturers. It would benefit all of us so we can exchange features we do use for ones that are useless to us for the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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