Opera Wants More From Microsoft

[petrossa]

Spare me the whine and cheese. Firefox did it. Chrome is doing it. Safari for Windows is doing it. So much for "against all odds".

Opera has stated that it cannot afford to advertise and promote the browser. Not having the money to promote your product is not the fault of Microsoft.

Opera could barely sell their browser when they charged for it and can barely give it away now that it's free. That speaks volumes.

You don't get convicted of illegal business practices just because Opera says so. The EU committee studied the joint complaint of Mozilla, Opera and a few others and came to the conclusion they were right.

MS doesn't agree, obviously, but i've never seen a criminal saying 'thank you for the sentencing and here's a bunch of flowers for the missus'

Now they must make amends, though fecal matter.

[DDStriker]

Maybe they should include updating capabilities for opera...i mean think about it you will never use it so it won't get updated (since they update when you run them) atleast this way you can waste your bandwidth on a useless product and they can be like "oh yay we has a billion downloads/updates now we famous"

then opera will try and charge microsoft royalties for using their dung of a browser in their system

seriously though windows is a program with plugin support (so to speak) you can replace pretty much anything you like including browsers gui's etc just because someone makes a plugin doesn't mean the company has to install it by default the EU and opera need to seriously **** off and die

Microsoft may of done wrong but it still doesn't entitle them to plague their system with inadequate software that if anything would harm its performance

its like being sentenced to include spyware in you're program its insanity

[EcPercy]

I am sure Microsoft could provide updates for various browsers over windows update, but it wouldn't be free. I mean given that Microsoft took the time to setup a way to update their products over the internet and using their own bandwidth.

[petrossa]

What everyone here cheerfully ignores is that Mozilla is co-complainant.

[DDStriker]

What everyone here cheerfully ignores is that Mozilla is co-complainant.

Last i checked Firefox didn't suck?

Opera is the biggest whinger Mozilla just appears to be tagging along whether it goes through or not they wouldn't really care Opera is depending on it to give their crappy browser some better coverage a publicity stunt if you will

we acknowledge mozilla's involvement, its not relevant to this thread, move along sir.

[smooth_criminal1990]

Well if Microsoft have to provide updates for third party web browsers, why shouldn't third party text editors, photo editors e.t.c. not be allowed this privelige? (spelling fail, I know)

Well if Microsoft have to provide updates for third party web browsers, why shouldn't third party text editors, photo editors e.t.c. not be allowed this privelige? (spelling fail, I know)

Probably fake though if there's no source.

Although the whole thing REALLY gets to me because Opera are a massive player in the non-PC/Laptop browser market and they've started playing the victim. Blatant greed. Not that Microsoft or many commercial organisations are any better.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

I am sure Microsoft could provide updates for various browsers over windows update, but it wouldn't be free. I mean given that Microsoft took the time to setup a way to update their products over the internet and using their own bandwidth.

I agree. A unified update service would be great, so that all your applications would get updated through Windows Update, no matter who makes them. The only proviso I have is that the companies writing the updates should host the actual download files from their own servers, not download.microsoft.com. Why should Microsoft have to pay the bandwidth costs to distribute other company's updates?

Its not unprecedented either, Microsoft has distributed Flash Player updates through WU in the past.

[carmatic]

Just run the filehippo app, if you have any software that needs updating it will tell you and give a download link to the file. Simple :p

i used to be on filehippo, until cnet released their 'techtracker' app... it notifies me of updates and i'm much more familiar with cnet's download.com site

[+BeLGaRaTh Subscriber¹]

I would use techtracker, but seeing as you have to be logged into cnet and their auth. servers always seem to be down I went for FileHippo :p

[petrossa]

Last i checked Firefox didn't suck?

Opera is the biggest whinger Mozilla just appears to be tagging along whether it goes through or not they wouldn't really care Opera is depending on it to give their crappy browser some better coverage a publicity stunt if you will

we acknowledge mozilla's involvement, its not relevant to this thread, move along sir.

Not relevant in which way? Several software companies lodge a joint complaint and Opera get's the stick 'because it's browser sucks'?

I mean, disregarding the subjective observation that opera 'sucks', it's still a joint complaint. And complaining is whining in which way exactly? Because the browser 'sucks'?

So if the browser doesn't 'suck' it's not whining.

So if one can prove objectively that the browser doesn't 'suck' it's OK?

Sjeesh who needs reason when you've got total cr+p as argumentation. This is beyond the horizon of sanity.

Edited August 15, 2009 by petrossa

[Boz]

The EU committee studied the joint complaint of Mozilla, Opera and a few others and came to the conclusion they were right.

Where's this so called complaint where they were all against Microsoft, especially Firefox which actually holds the major marketshare? This is news to me.

All I can see is that Opera has a product that sucks, is incapable or market penetration due to tough competition and probably their horrible management and now this is their only way of trying to increase marketshare. EU is not known for giving Microsoft any breaks even if complaints are downright ridiculous.

I hope they don't budge and just give them the finger. I'll be super happy when I see Opera go bankrupt and simply cease to exist. I'm sick and tired of this BS to be honest.

[petrossa]

Where's this so called complaint where they were all against Microsoft, especially Firefox which actually holds the major marketshare? This is news to me.

All I can see is that Opera has a product that sucks, is incapable or market penetration due to tough competition and probably their horrible management and now this is their only way of trying to increase marketshare. EU is not known for giving Microsoft any breaks even if complaints are downright ridiculous.

I hope they don't budge and just give them the finger. I'll be super happy when I see Opera go bankrupt and simply cease to exist. I'm sick and tired of this BS to be honest.

http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/mozilla-jo...ernet-explorer/

[ToneKnee]

What everyone here cheerfully ignores is that Mozilla is co-complainant.

Mozilla and Google were happy about the Windows 7 E version, they're also happy with the ballot box idea. Opera just want more and more from Microsoft, that's where the problem is.

[DDStriker]

Not relevant in which way? Several software companies lodge a joint complaint and Opera get's the stick 'because it's browser sucks'?

I mean, disregarding the subjective observation that opera 'sucks', it's still a joint complaint. And complaining is whining in which way exactly? Because the browser 'sucks'?

So if the browser doesn't 'suck' it's not whining.

way to completely take it out context...

this is opera's agenda that they are pushing the other companies had nothing to do with it at all (there was prior complaints and so forth) but this particular thread that we are posting in is operas doing and thats why it doesn't relate to the other companies

they are whining making up excuses for their product believing its not popular due to microsoft's browser being integrated

however mozilla/google havn't had any issues claiming more market share then opera

So if one can prove objectively that the browser doesn't 'suck' it's OK?

Sjeesh who needs reason when you've got total cr+p as argumentation. This is beyond the horizon of sanity.

ugh its their only reason for pushing for these changes just like when kevin rudd wants to ban the internet to "protect our children" its just a blanket to cover them while they push their own personal agenda where if their browser was decent they wouldn't need to do such a thing

< snipped > i mean if you bother reading more of the posts in this forum and not just the last page you'd have more of a clue of whats going on in this topic

Edited August 15, 2009 by Calum J. R.
Please don't directly call others 'troll'. If you think someone may be trolling, please report them

[petrossa]

<snipped>

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your Quest to rid the earth of Opera.

I'll continue to stick to reality and post relevant information.

Mozilla and Google were happy about the Windows 7 E version, they're also happy with the ballot box idea. Opera just want more and more from Microsoft, that's where the problem is.

I don't know i haven't seen them publicly saying nay or yea. The 7E version was shot down by the EU itself, it needed no help from 3rd party info for that. The EU learned their lesson with Vista N and for sure aren't going to let it happen again.

For the rest the EU invited all participants to review MS's offer and that's what they do. Opera put forward some very legitimate issues and they are being considered along with all other (less outspoken) reviews.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Calum J. R.
Snipped what I removed from the previous post

[Boz]

http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/mozilla-jo...ernet-explorer/

Well they are not the ones pursuing the lawsuit. That's all whiny Opera and EU. Mozilla requested a third party seat so it can get access to documents and the progress of the case. That's how I read it. Which is not really surprising. They want to see how this plays out.

I'm really sickened about this. This is beyond ridiculous. A company makes the OS and provides it's users a way to access internet. There is nothing wrong with that. They are not preventing you to install alternate browsers. If it wasn't for Microsoft they wouldn't even have crap, and that's what makes this whole thing even more asinine.

I really don't adore Microsoft, but this is really a bunch of pitiful people with problem that Microsoft is a huge and successful company. Nothing more.

Some cases are valid against MS and some of them I did agree with but the fact they are requesting now Microsoft to completely take out IE or include their products is not seen in ANY industry. It's truly ridiculous.

The 7E version was shot down by the EU itself, it needed no help from 3rd party info for that. The EU learned their lesson with Vista N and for sure aren't going to let it happen again.

This is what makes it even more ridiculous. Microsoft should just give them half-assed versions of Windows 7 and be done with it. So they can install their stinking browsers however they want. So they don't want it without IE, but want Microsoft to bend over. Completely insane.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Boz

[DDStriker]

Troll. Me. You're posting post after post of unqualified emotional rants against Opera and i'm trolling.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your Quest to rid the earth of Opera.

I'll continue to stick to reality and post relevant information.

Unqualified emotional rants? get over yourself

What facts or relevant information have you spewed out that are of any value to this discussion?

What opera is trying to enforce on Microsoft is ridiculous and pathetic it doesn't matter how good or crap their browser is that point is still valid i don't need to repeat all the information said throughout this topic just for you're sake if you're to lazy to read the posts in this topic then you are not worth the time to join in on this discussio

You're reality is false let me guess you think Microsoft should pay you money because they ruined your chances of building a simple notepad program? or they should include yours in their software

pathetic

but the fact they are requesting now Microsoft to completely take out IE or include their products is not seen in ANY industry. It's truly ridiculous

+1

[Boz]

Let's not even talk about Apple. Why is it that noone is asking Apple to do the same? Make BS ballot screens, take out Safari and so on? Same law should apply to everyone not just those who are successful.

[petrossa]

What facts or relevant information have you spewed out that are of any value to this discussion?

The fact that:

a) Microsoft is convicted criminal organization

b) That the EU is pursuing Microsoft, not Opera.

c) That it's the EU that invited all concerned to react to MS's proposal to add a ballot screen.

What's not a fact but a subjective pov:

a) Opera's browser 'sucks'

b) Opera is whining

c) Opera is the sole root of all that's evil

[DDStriker]

Let's not even talk about Apple. Why is it that noone is asking Apple to do the same? Make BS ballot screens, take out Safari and so on? Same law should apply to everyone not just those who are successful.

Because they just all love to hate microsoft. :laugh:

The fact that:

a) Microsoft is convicted criminal organization

b) That the EU is pursuing Microsoft, not Opera.

c) That it's the EU that invited all concerned to react to MS's proposal to add a ballot screen.

What's not a fact but a subjective pov:

a) Opera's browser 'sucks'

b) Opera is whining

c) Opera is the sole root of all that's evil

All known information but thanks buddy you've been a real great contributer (Y)

You are aware this discussion was about opera wanting microsoft to provide automatic updates/notification for their application and not about the ballot screen directly?

a) Yes IMO (and many others) Opera's Browser does indeed suck its usable yes but there are much better alternatives which is more then enough to say something sucks. You know what else is usable? Windows Millennium...yeah think about it :p

b) Yes Opera is now whining they've pretty much gotten microsoft to provide a ballot box and now they just keep pushing for more and more in the hopes their application will see the light of day

c) I never said anything like that, they are just annoying if anything

Its my personal opinion that Opera is going to far with trying to control how Microsoft conducts business its not for Opera to decide its for the EU however its opera's whining thats influencing their decision it has to be because these decisions are trivial and childish why the EU is listening to them i have no idea (again maybe a money thing?)

Edited August 15, 2009 by DDStriker

[Boz]

a) Microsoft is convicted criminal organization

This is where you lost all credibility to me. It's just a software. It's hardly "criminal" and some lawsuits that MS went through and lost were simply preventing Microsoft from holding a monopoly. There is no company on this world that's bigger hasn't done something that would be subject to a lawsuit, that hardly makes them criminals. The fact that you classified them as criminals tells me how you see this. That's probably how EU thinks and has incredible bias towards anything Microsoft. I have never seen such desire to ruin one company then what some of these lawsuits are trying to do.

The fact they say that Microsoft stalled progress of the internet is completely retarded, especially when we have proof everywhere around us that this is simply not true. Microsoft is not the only one that fuels internet with technology. In fact, many other companies have a great stake and presence and inventions for the web and none of them are actually competing with Microsoft or at least have zero connection with them.

As I said, Microsoft should just give the finger to EU and completely exclude any major internet technology and their browser and let them figure out the way how to replace them. But no, that would be again wrong in your eyes and their eyes because they do need it. The hypocrisy is very high.

[Boz]

Because they just all love to hate microsoft. :laugh:

All known information but thanks buddy you've been a real great contributer (Y)

You are aware this discussion was about opera wanting microsoft to provide automatic updates/notification for their application and not about the ballot screen directly?

a) Yes IMO (and many others) Opera's Browser does indeed suck its usable yes but there are much better alternatives which is more then enough to say something sucks. You know what else is usable? Windows Millennium...yeah think about it :p

b) Yes Opera is now whining they've pretty much gotten microsoft to provide a ballot box and now they just keep pushing for more and more in the hopes their application will see the light of day

c) I never said anything like that, they are just annoying if anything

Its my personal opinion that Opera is going to far with trying to control how Microsoft conducts business its not for Opera to decide its for the EU however its opera's whining thats influencing their decision it has to be because these decisions are trivial and childish why the EU is listening to them i have no idea (again maybe a money thing?)

All great points.> Completely agree.. Opera gotten some attention and now they are really milking it and trying to go all the way to promote their crap and irrelevant browser.

[Eice]

The fact that:

a) Microsoft is convicted criminal organization

If you're going as far as to call this a fact, you're either ignorant, a troll, a liar, or a combination of all three. The EU has yet to pass judgment on Microsoft regarding this case. Microsoft has been convicted of nothing.

b) That the EU is pursuing Microsoft, not Opera.

This thread is about Opera's stand, irregardless of what the EU decides. The EU could rule either way, and Opera would still end up looking completely stupid and irrational - which, as it happens, is exactly what they are.

[Lechio]

a) Yes IMO (and many others) Opera's Browser does indeed suck its usable yes but there are much better alternatives which is more then enough to say something sucks. You know what else is usable? Windows Millennium...yeah think about it :p

Could you elaborate on that subject? Why does Opera Web browser "suck"? What bad experiences do you have using Opera as a Web browser? Why are other alternatives better than Opera? What is Opera's browser lacking when compared to the other alternatives you have mentioned?

[d_ralphie]

Sorry to burst ya bubble but in marketshare opera comes in at like 5th - FACT Which also must mean it rates LOWER in yes you guessed it DOWNLOADS

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0

You are linking to Hitslink, which was exposed as a bunch of liars ages ago. In fact, they recently admitted that their stats were complete garbage, and suddenly Opera went from less than 1% to 2%. But Opera has a 3% market share. According to IWS there are about 1.4 billion desktops online. Opera had more than 40 million users at the same time. 40 million is about 3% of 1.4 billion. And StatCounter reports this correctly:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-mont...0902-200907-bar

So Opera is the #3 browser worldwide DESPITE Safari being preinstalled on a popular system, and despite Google's massive advertising campaigns.

Even better in Europe where Opera absolutely destroys Chrome and Safari:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-eu-mont...0902-200907-bar