Opera Wants More From Microsoft

[d_ralphie]

why is opera still talking?

Because journalists are asking them questions. Mozilla sure is talking a helluva lot too. Why aren't you whining about that?

[d_ralphie]

Since they swimming in so much of a cash pool then they should advertise their browser and pay to have it put on OEM machines.

They ARE doing advertising, and I have already explained the OEM thing: Opera is a browser company. But while it has a lot of cash, it doesn't have much compared to other companies whose main business is not browsers. So Google, Microsoft, etc. can outbid them with no problems because they just subsidise their browser instead of actually making a living from browsers.

You really need to stop repeating the blatant lie that Opera isn't doing advertising, by the way.

Three words for you....Firefox did it.

Firefox didn't "do it". Firefox is proof that the market is broken, as Mozilla themselves explain:

"When the only real competition comes from a not for profit open source organization that depends on volunteers for almost half of its work product and nearly all of its marketing and distribution, while more than half a dozen other "traditional" browser vendors with better than I.E. products have had near-zero success encroaching on Microsoft I.E.'s dominance, there's a demonstrable tilt to the playing field. That tilt comes with the distribution channel - default status for the OS bundled Web browser."

I find it pathetic that a browser that has been around for what, 13 years, and still can't manage to get any significant market share.

Actually, Opera has only been free without ads for 3 or so years. Before that it wasn't even aiming for the mass-market so those years don't really count. It wasn't until Opera was released for free and without ads that the user base started picking up. It more than doubled its user base in less than 2 years.

And what is "significant market share"? Opera has a higher market share than Safari despite Safari being bundled with Macs. And higher than Chrome despite Google's massive advertising campaigns. Why are you whining about Opera's market share anyway? How is it relevant?

BTW, in Europe Opera has more users than Chrome and Safari combined!

Microsoft is guilty of this, Microsoft is guilty of that, nevermind that those claims are only cheap opinions pulled out of an Opera shill's hole instead of any actual legal verdicts. Which court has decided that bundling IE makes Microsoft guilty of "lock-in"? Oh, that's right - none.

But that's not what I'm asking you about. Regardless of whether Microsoft is "guilty" or not, are you denying any wrongdoing on the part of Microsoft?

Are you denying that IE's inclusion in Windows gives it a huge advantage over other browsers, and that its dominance is a result of said bundling? Are you also denying that Microsoft has been willfully violating standards, even going so far as to sabotage standards?

Regardless of whether this is illegal or not, are you denying these things?

Why would I want to subscribe to the same bull that you do?

Making a coherent argument based on a coherent position rather than sheer hypocrisy is "bull"? I notice how you went on about me being a member of several forums and posting about the same subjects. Funny how you are doing the same thing, eh? It must suck to be caught being a hypocrite :)

Another thing you are doing is to make statements about the case without the final verdict. So you are doing the exact same thing as I am, only you are unable to come up with valid arguments and answers to some basic questions about your position.

Your opinions are a joke.

You have not been able to show this to be the case. On the contrary, you have been unable to answer some simple questions which I have repeated numberous times by now.

Quit playing make-believe that your opinion somehow determines Microsoft is guilty or not.

I don't know how many times I have explicitly spelled out to you that my opinion makes no difference when it comes to the final ruling. But that's not the point here. The point here is that you are rabidly defending Microsoft, and yet you are unable to answer some very simple questions.

Whining and answering questions from journalists are by no means mutually exclusive. Just because you're doing one doesn't mean you aren't doing the other. Opera is doing both, because being whining losers in public is apparently exactly what they intend to do.

There are no falsehoods. Just because Opera has no authority, doesn't mean they aren't whining and airing their increasingly ridiculous opinions in public.

You have yet to show one single specific example of "whining". As I said: Give me one specific example of Opera "whining" and explain how it is "whining" exactly.

I also showed you how the other ones are not "shutting up" either. Here's another one from Mozilla:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/913...screen_proposal

So when are you going to start whining about Mozilla's "whining"?

It was Opera who said that Microsoft cannot bundle IE, AND that Microsoft cannot NOT bundle IE.

Wrong. Opera intially proposed a few possible remedies, but after investigation, they figured that just removing IE wasn't going to fix the damage already done to the market. The EC came to the same conclusion. They came up with possible solution, analyzed them, and concluded that one of the proposed solutions wasn't going to work. This is a very common process, but I am not surprised that you are completely unfamiliar with such things.

The only falsehood here is you trying to whitewash Opera's actions

Yes, how terrible of Opera to report crimes to the authorities, and later answer questions from journalists about the case.

Also, you ignored this:

Why is Opera talking this much about the antitrust case?

Because they were the ones who reported Microsoft's violations to the authorities, so they are the first ones journalists contact for comments on new developments in the antitrust case.

If people who whine over Opera "whining" use their brains for a second, they will realize that all these comments from Opera are a direct result of journalists contacting them for comments. So what are you people suggesting? That Opera should refuse to talk about the case?

Apparently answering questions from journalists is "whining". Gotta love Microsoft-logic.

Why did you continue whining about Opera "whining" instead of addressing the points I am making?

[Lechio]

Why did you continue whining about Opera "whining" instead of addressing the points I am making?

There's no argumentation against the obvious.

Put cheap/offensive wording like "whining", "Opera needs to shut th **** up!", "Opera sucks!", "IE and Windows are the best, cause." and the such and be done with it... That's way it's done in these situations.

[DariusIII]

Oh How wonderful of you to do that!

I can play too! Look: It's our dear friend Eice defending Microsoft on different forums around the Internet.

Probably not much, given their marketshare and all... :rolleyes:

How much $$$-Micro$oft-$$$ pays to you?

Can you believe that I defend Opera and I am not aware of any ties between them and me? Only their excellent browser.

Yeah, but supporting something for 5 years in the same way is a bit more than dedication.It is called obsession.

[d_ralphie]

Yeah, but supporting something for 5 years in the same way is a bit more than dedication.It is called obsession.

If you are going to be a "leet haxxor", you could at least do your homework. Take a look at the posting history here and at that other site. Does it look like I have actually been posting actively all these years?

Oh well. I guess this kind of hypocritical nonsense is what you resort to when you can't actually come up with any valid arguments.

[d_ralphie]

Oh, hai! Mozilla execs want change to ballot screen proposal! I'm not seeing any of the regular people whining over Mozilla's "whining" in that thread! :D

Wonder if they whined about Microsoft's antitrust complaints against Google or Google's antitrust complaints against Microsoft too.

Remember: It's only bad if Opera does it!

Edit: Looks like there's at least one. No whining about Mozilla, though. All together now: It's only bad if Opera does it!

:D

Microsoft is guilty of this, Microsoft is guilty of that, nevermind that those claims are only cheap opinions pulled out of an Opera shill's hole instead of any actual legal verdicts. Which court has decided that bundling IE makes Microsoft guilty of "lock-in"? Oh, that's right - none.

But that's not what I'm asking you about. Regardless of whether Microsoft is "guilty" or not, are you denying any wrongdoing on the part of Microsoft?

Are you denying that IE's inclusion in Windows gives it a huge advantage over other browsers, and that its dominance is a result of said bundling? Are you also denying that Microsoft has been willfully violating standards, even going so far as to sabotage standards?

Regardless of whether this is illegal or not, are you denying these things?

Why would I want to subscribe to the same bull that you do?

Making a coherent argument based on a coherent position rather than sheer hypocrisy is "bull"? I notice how you went on about me being a member of several forums and posting about the same subjects. Funny how you are doing the same thing, eh? It must suck to be caught being a hypocrite :)

Another thing you are doing is to make statements about the case without the final verdict. So you are doing the exact same thing as I am, only you are unable to come up with valid arguments and answers to some basic questions about your position.

Your opinions are a joke.

You have not been able to show this to be the case. On the contrary, you have been unable to answer some simple questions which I have repeated numberous times by now.

Quit playing make-believe that your opinion somehow determines Microsoft is guilty or not.

I don't know how many times I have explicitly spelled out to you that my opinion makes no difference when it comes to the final ruling. But that's not the point here. The point here is that you are rabidly defending Microsoft, and yet you are unable to answer some very simple questions.

Whining and answering questions from journalists are by no means mutually exclusive. Just because you're doing one doesn't mean you aren't doing the other. Opera is doing both, because being whining losers in public is apparently exactly what they intend to do.

There are no falsehoods. Just because Opera has no authority, doesn't mean they aren't whining and airing their increasingly ridiculous opinions in public.

You have yet to show one single specific example of "whining". As I said: Give me one specific example of Opera "whining" and explain how it is "whining" exactly.

I also showed you how the other ones are not "shutting up" either. Here's another one from Mozilla:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/913...screen_proposal

So when are you going to start whining about Mozilla's "whining"?

It was Opera who said that Microsoft cannot bundle IE, AND that Microsoft cannot NOT bundle IE.

Wrong. Opera intially proposed a few possible remedies, but after investigation, they figured that just removing IE wasn't going to fix the damage already done to the market. The EC came to the same conclusion. They came up with possible solution, analyzed them, and concluded that one of the proposed solutions wasn't going to work. This is a very common process, but I am not surprised that you are completely unfamiliar with such things.

The only falsehood here is you trying to whitewash Opera's actions

Yes, how terrible of Opera to report crimes to the authorities, and later answer questions from journalists about the case.

Also, you ignored this:

Why is Opera talking this much about the antitrust case?

Because they were the ones who reported Microsoft's violations to the authorities, so they are the first ones journalists contact for comments on new developments in the antitrust case.

If people who whine over Opera "whining" use their brains for a second, they will realize that all these comments from Opera are a direct result of journalists contacting them for comments. So what are you people suggesting? That Opera should refuse to talk about the case?

Apparently answering questions from journalists is "whining". Gotta love Microsoft-logic.

Why did you continue whining about Opera "whining" instead of addressing the points I am making?

[d_ralphie]

This thread went awfully quiet after all those complaints from Mozilla.

And after people realized that Microsoft has been filing antitrust complaints as well: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/21/m...click-marriage/

And Google has too: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...ktop-search.ars

Looks like there's no one left to whine about now :D

[DariusIII]

This thread went awfully quiet after all those complaints from Mozilla.

And after people realized that Microsoft has been filing antitrust complaints as well: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/21/m...click-marriage/

And Google has too: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...ktop-search.ars

Looks like there's no one left to whine about now :D

Oh there is.You seem to have a good job on making people get ****ed because of your way of communication in the "other" thread.

[BajiRav]

This thread went awfully quiet after all those complaints from Mozilla.

And after people realized that Microsoft has been filing antitrust complaints as well: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/21/m...click-marriage/

And Google has too: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...ktop-search.ars

Looks like there's no one left to whine about now :D

Yeah because we are posting in other thread. And yes I called out Google about the desktiop search crap