New Camera

[Draconian Guppy]

So my d50 + nikon 50mm, tamron 70.300 and nikon 18-70 are all broken beyond repair/barely usefull. The nikon d50 body works, but the flash doesn't pop up the viewfinder is "fogged"...

Anyway, I had invested in those amateurish lenses in nikon but they all went to hell Read about it here

So anyway, since i'm camera-less I was thinking of buying an entry level dSLR... So far i've narrowed it down to:

1. Sony A300 so so Jpeg quality, but shooting raw seems to be alright, which I don't mind

2. Canon XS

3. Canon XSi

4. Olympus 520 (cause of the dual kit lense for under $600 )

What to fellow photographers here recommend? Also it has to be under $650 INCLUDING kit lenses and the above stated fit the budget.

Others considered

Sony A230

Pentax K-x

Nikon 5000.... BUT not such a big fan of the lack on in-camera AF.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Draconian Guppy

[Brandon]

Personally, I'm a canon fan, and I had Nikon D50 before. Better RAW managment IMO

[Draconian Guppy]

Personally, I'm a canon fan, and I had Nikon D50 before. Better RAW managment IMO

Canon has better raw management? Yeah i'm guessing this will turn into a canon recomendation thread :p BUT i've read good things on the sony a300 hence why it's listed as first option.

[crazzy88ss]

Nikon 5000.... BUT not such a big fan of the lack on in-camera AF.

Nikon boy speaking here....

All of the new lenses out there are AF-S, meaning the lack of in camera AF isn't much of a problem now. It really only applies to the older lenses. The D5000 is the best entry level camera because it has the SAME sensor as the nikon D300s, an $1800 camera. No other entry level cameras will give you a pro level sensor (If I'm wrong, please correct me somebody). The sensor is very important.

With my defense of the Nikon system over, I will say that canon and sony make perfectly fine cameras and you'll probably be happy either way.

Make sure you look at the system you're buying into. Bodies are obsolete every 2 years while lenses can last decades. Make sure you're happy with the lenses each system can offer you. You may not be able to afford it now, but you may want pro level lenses later on.

I too started with a nikon D50, but now I've moved up and I'm getting the pro level gear.

[Argote]

Well, all of the Nikon D5000 reviews I've seen point out that it's the best entry level camera on the market right now so if you can get that with a lens for less than $650 by all means go ahead.

If you're going Sony, I'd recommend you to get the A200 over the A300 or A230 since the A300 is the same thing but with live view but a much smaller viewfinder (if you prefer the live view though go with the A300) and the A230 is an A200 in a smaller body, which handles nowhere near as well.

The Canon XSi is also pretty decent, I'd stay away from the XS.

I cannot comment on the Olympus other than it seems to be a decent camera and it uses the 4/3 system.

[Draconian Guppy]

Nikon boy speaking here....

All of the new lenses out there are AF-S, meaning the lack of in camera AF isn't much of a problem now. It really only applies to the older lenses. The D5000 is the best entry level camera because it has the SAME sensor as the nikon D300s, an $1800 camera. No other entry level cameras will give you a pro level sensor (If I'm wrong, please correct me somebody). The sensor is very important.

With my defense of the Nikon system over, I will say that canon and sony make perfectly fine cameras and you'll probably be happy either way.

Make sure you look at the system you're buying into. Bodies are obsolete every 2 years while lenses can last decades. Make sure you're happy with the lenses each system can offer you. You may not be able to afford it now, but you may want pro level lenses later on.

I too started with a nikon D50, but now I've moved up and I'm getting the pro level gear.

I didn't know it used the same sensor as the D300s, that gives it extra body points. I don't care much for bodies because as you say they become obsolete more often than we'd like. I just want a decent body that I can build upon with decent glass in 2 years time without worrying the body is "holding me back". Like I bought the d50 around 2006, then in 2007 bought 2 lenses for it.

Well, all of the Nikon D5000 reviews I've seen point out that it's the best entry level camera on the market right now so if you can get that with a lens for less than $650 by all means go ahead.

If you're going Sony, I'd recommend you to get the A200 over the A300 or A230 since the A300 is the same thing but with live view but a much smaller viewfinder (if you prefer the live view though go with the A300) and the A230 is an A200 in a smaller body, which handles nowhere near as well.

The Canon XSi is also pretty decent, I'd stay away from the XS.

I cannot comment on the Olympus other than it seems to be a decent camera and it uses the 4/3 system.

Well the sony a200 does have a nice dual kit for around $600 but it's poor noise performance on 800 and 1600 are a turn down...

Also Why does the XS get so much bad rep?

And anyone with olympus here on neowin? if not then it's coming of the list ! :p

I searched around and found the D5000 for $729 which is alright. I've not made up my mind though :|

Edit: Also Would the D5000 still be a lot better then the XSi ?

[Myrdhinn]

High ISO on the A200 isn't really that terrible until 1600 and 3200. Even at 1600 if you shoot raw and know your way around a good NR program than you can get more than usable shots. Heck I've had printable ones at 3200 up to 8x10 but then I'm printing at home. Hint: inkjets do wonders for noise since the droplets cannot resolve down to the detail of a dedicated processor like say a Fuji Frontier at photo stores so it gets smoothed out somewhat. The Canon XS gets it's bad rep for having the cheapest plasticky body out of all the major players and as soon as you hold one you know it. On the downside for the A200, the 18-70 kit lens is very average at best, while it can take good pictures, the lens is not regarded highly.

Best bet is to try them in a store and get what feels best. If the NIk D5000 is anything like the D90 in heft and feel, it will feel better than the A200 (but then it's nearly twice the price and so should). None the less, I still think my A200 is the best bargain in it's price range IMHO.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Myrdhinn

[Draconian Guppy]

High ISO on the A200 isn't really that terrible until 1600 and 3200. Even at 1600 if you shoot raw and know your way around a good NR program than you can get more than usable shots. Heck I've had printable ones at 3200 up to 8x10 but then I'm printing at home. Hint: inkjets do wonders for noise since the droplets cannot resolve down to the detail of a dedicated processor like say a Fuji Frontier at photo stores so it gets smoothed out somewhat. The Canon XS gets it's bad rep for having the cheapest plasticky body out of all the major players and as soon as you hold one you know it. On the downside for the A200, the 18-70 kit lens is very average at best, while it can take good pictures, the lens is not regarded highly.

:woot: a sony fan

Well, @ $464 the sony a200 does leave me with an extra $300 I can invest in glass.

Also could you tell me if you considered any others cameras when purchasing the a200 and why you decided on the a200? Because at it's price point it's (Y)

[Myrdhinn]

When I bought my sony, i was also considering the Nikon D60... but the D60 didn't have in body stablization nor did it have in body motor. That was the deal breaker, there is so much good old minolta and nikon glass out there and I'd hate to be stuck with having to buy only in-lens motor lenses. So my options at the time were sony or go over twice the price for a nikon D90. Besides, I was a minolta film user so did have a couple of lenses that worked on the sony.

[Draconian Guppy]

When I bought my sony, i was also considering the Nikon D60... but the D60 didn't have in body stablization nor did it have in body motor. That was the deal breaker, there is so much good old minolta and nikon glass out there and I'd hate to be stuck with having to buy only in-lens motor lenses. So my options at the time were sony or go over twice the price for a nikon D90. Besides, I was a minolta film user so did have a couple of lenses that worked on the sony.

Well I haven't considered the d60 it is within my pricerange, but for the price of a d60 I can get a Dual kit lens on the a200

Couple of questions for your myrdhinn, since you appear to the only one answering sony questions :p

1. What kind of battery life do you get? Eg. how many shots

2. Quality of the built in Pop flash?

3. have you bought any additional accessories for it, if so, which ones and could you comment on the build quality of said items?

Sorry for the nag, but I have 0 experience in Sony dSLRs and reviews on the interweb aren't nearly as good as getting user feedback :)

[Argote]

Well I haven't considered the d60 it is within my pricerange, but for the price of a d60 I can get a Dual kit lens on the a200

Couple of questions for your myrdhinn, since you appear to the only one answering sony questions :p

1. What kind of battery life do you get? Eg. how many shots

2. Quality of the built in Pop flash?

3. have you bought any additional accessories for it, if so, which ones and could you comment on the build quality of said items?

Sorry for the nag, but I have 0 experience in Sony dSLRs and reviews on the interweb aren't nearly as good as getting user feedback :)

I have the A200 as well and it uses the exact same sensor as the A300 or A230 so noise levels would be the same, they are pretty workable and 400 and 800 are, indeed, usable, especially with RAW. If you want to avoid noise though, the D5000 reigns supreme at the moment as it uses the same sensor as higher end cameras (Nikon D90, Nikon D300s, Sony Alpha A700).

When I was buying my DSLR I was considering the A200, the Nikon D60, and the Canon XSi. I went with the A200 since it has the biggest body of them all and the kit lens is an 18-70 as opposed to the traditional 18-55, In-Body Stabilization, the D60 only has 3 AF points and the XSi was more expensive.

Also, the battery in the A200 lasts a long time, I've never run out and it's nice that it tells you the exact percentage left.

The pop-in flash is OK, though it's lower than other models which can be slightly bad for reflections, still, if you want to do any serious flash work, get an external unit. Also of note is that Sony uses the Minolta flash mount which is not what the rest of the guys use, there are adapters on amazon for like $15 and most 3rd party flash units are available on this mount as well.

I also have the SAL75300 (75-300mm lens by Sony) and I guess it's an OK telephoto (for the price) although it does get some minor Fringing on occasions.

My honest recommendation would be to get the D5000 unless you absolutely want 2 lenses now.

[Draconian Guppy]

I have the A200 as well and it uses the exact same sensor as the A300 or A230 so noise levels would be the same, they are pretty workable and 400 and 800 are, indeed, usable, especially with RAW. If you want to avoid noise though, the D5000 reigns supreme at the moment as it uses the same sensor as higher end cameras (Nikon D90, Nikon D300s, Sony Alpha A700).

When I was buying my DSLR I was considering the A200, the Nikon D60, and the Canon XSi. I went with the A200 since it has the biggest body of them all and the kit lens is an 18-70 as opposed to the traditional 18-55, In-Body Stabilization, the D60 only has 3 AF points and the XSi was more expensive.

Also, the battery in the A200 lasts a long time, I've never run out and it's nice that it tells you the exact percentage left.

The pop-in flash is OK, though it's lower than other models which can be slightly bad for reflections, still, if you want to do any serious flash work, get an external unit. Also of note is that Sony uses the Minolta flash mount which is not what the rest of the guys use, there are adapters on amazon for like $15 and most 3rd party flash units are available on this mount as well.

I also have the SAL75300 (75-300mm lens by Sony) and I guess it's an OK telephoto (for the price) although it does get some minor Fringing on occasions.

My honest recommendation would be to get the D5000 unless you absolutely want 2 lenses now.

Hey thanks! another sony fan :) Well at $750 the D5000 is a bit out of my price range, but I really don't need 2 lenses atm. But what makes me consider it I'd rather have a decent body(sensor) and then further build on it with better glass.

Noise doesn't worry me that much, since I barely shoot 1600, but it would be nice to be able to take the picture every now and then without worrying about it. Although I guess that's where the in-body stabilization kicks in.

Also what would you say in your opinions are the short-comings of the a200

Still unless there's a price drop before december I guess i'm gonna go the A200 way, unless of course, neowin says otherwise :) Maybe the Xsi, because it is within my price range.

[PyX]

Hey, I'm not a specialist of cameras here, but I compared a few cameras between Sony and Canon and Canon won, hands down. Even the cheap cameras compared to the Carl Zeiss ones.

Same with Camcorders. Canon simply makes great lenses, end of the argument. Don't have a clue if they are the best, but damn I love the render that they offer.

Anyways, just to say that I'm giving a vote for a Canon camera.

[Draconian Guppy]

Hey, I'm not a specialist of cameras here, but I compared a few cameras between Sony and Canon and Canon won, hands down. Even the cheap cameras compared to the Carl Zeiss ones.

Same with Camcorders. Canon simply makes great lenses, end of the argument. Don't have a clue if they are the best, but damn I love the render that they offer.

Anyways, just to say that I'm giving a vote for a Canon camera.

Thanks :) Any feedback is always welcome!

[Prince Charming]

I'm a Canon fangirl, so obviously, take with a grain of salt. Sony's stuff just seems quite a bit behind in sensor tech and processing. They're doing great by actually being in the market so quickly, but their products aren't serious competitors to the Canikon duopoly of the 35mm DSLR market. Of the two Canon DSLRs you listed, I would definately go with the XSi over the XS. It's a better camera in nearly every regard.

[Draconian Guppy]

I'm a Canon fangirl, so obviously, take with a grain of salt. Sony's stuff just seems quite a bit behind in sensor tech and processing. They're doing great by actually being in the market so quickly, but their products aren't serious competitors to the Canikon duopoly of the 35mm DSLR market. Of the two Canon DSLRs you listed, I would definately go with the XSi over the XS. It's a better camera in nearly every regard

Yeah several reviews point out that in sonys it's just better to shoot in raw because of their "consumer oriented" processing. As for sensor, don't they share the same sensor with nikons? I Might be mistaken though.

Thanks for the input :)

I haven't made up my mind yet, I'm looking at some Pentax dSLRs and some reviews, theyr're processing does seem to be wayyy behind.

[Draconian Guppy]

Bump and like to add i've "narrowed" it down to this ATM in this order:

Pentax K200D - Weather sealed But bad jpeg engine

Canon Digital Rebel XSi

Olympus E-520

Sony A200

The pentax get's just on top of the XSi because of the weather sealed body, because my previous d50 suffered alot from beach/salt corrosion, although I won't purchase anything until the 30th, But my mind is pretty set in any of those 4 listed. Although in reality I don't really think the e-520 or a200 are going to be in my final choice because of their noisy images on 1600.

Edit: the only thing that is holding me back from the Pentax and pushing towards the XSi is the lack of AF area not shown in the viewfinder on the k200d.

[comk]

I think the k200d does have AF point illumination, but not K-m or K-x. The latter two don't have weather sealing either.

[Draconian Guppy]

I think the k200d does have AF point illumination, but not K-m or K-x. The latter two don't have weather sealing either.

it does? Sweet! That evens the score for the K200D !

[Prince Charming]

I've shot with an EOS 400D (XTi) in some pretty godawful weather, including saltwater spray in rough cross-channel, sand/saltwater spray from a hovercraft's props, heavy snow settling on the camera, and pretty damn bad rain. It's not been babied, and it shows a few external scuffs, but it still works just fine. The problem with Canon's 'Weather Sealed' and 'Weather Resistant' bodies is that Canon refuse to publish to what degree they're rated, leaving 'Resistant' up to your interpretation. But that's just my experience with an xxxD line model - handled some pretty nasty stuff and it's still absolutely fine and produces beautiful images to this day.

[Draconian Guppy]

I've shot with an EOS 400D (XTi) in some pretty godawful weather, including saltwater spray in rough cross-channel, sand/saltwater spray from a hovercraft's props, heavy snow settling on the camera, and pretty damn bad rain. It's not been babied, and it shows a few external scuffs, but it still works just fine. The problem with Canon's 'Weather Sealed' and 'Weather Resistant' bodies is that Canon refuse to publish to what degree they're rated, leaving 'Resistant' up to your interpretation. But that's just my experience with an xxxD line model - handled some pretty nasty stuff and it's still absolutely fine and produces beautiful images to this day.

Cool thanks, I didn't know that canons had some sort of weather resistan body. Because I tell ya, I did almost the same things except for snow with a d50 and the outside screws got corroded, same thing with the battery door. The view finder appears to have permanent moisture I have no idea why...

Again thanks! Also, since there are many canon users in here, can you input to what degree you think canon is weather resistant?

[Draconian Guppy]

Bumpage, well last night as I was about to press enter on a Nikon d5000 on newegg I saw a camera ad for the new pentax K-x, it caught my attention, while comparing it to the nikon D5000, it seems superior on some areas like ISO, fastest shutter speed. It would seem it's not the same sensor, since last time around d50/ *ist DS/DL they shared the same sony sensor. Anyone have any idea on that?

Anyway what do neowins photobugs have to say about it?

The reason I changed my mind was because i've read so many things on how 20 year old lens work on new dSLRS... etc.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Draconian Guppy

[Draconian Guppy]

bumpage for teh above comparison.

[Draconian Guppy]

Bumpage, well last night as I was about to press enter on a Nikon d5000 on newegg I saw a camera ad for the new pentax K-x, it caught my attention, while comparing it to the nikon D5000, it seems superior on some areas like ISO, fastest shutter speed. It would seem it's not the same sensor, since last time around d50/ *ist DS/DL they shared the same sony sensor. Anyone have any idea on that?

Anyway what do neowins photobugs have to say about it?

The reason I changed my mind was because i've read so many things on how 20 year old lens work on new dSLRS... etc.

no pentax love I guess?

[Brandon]

Not really. Going with anything but Nikon or Canon will leave you stranded if or when you go for upgrading to more expensive lenses