MW2: No Dedicated Servers, No Mods

[Sethos]

Honestly, I can't be arsed trying to counter-argue most of this, mainly because people are hell bent on hating the system because it's new. So stick to your cancelled pre-orders and play some of the thousands of other games with a dedicated server system, this isn't the only game in the world and then move along.

And yes, I do agree with 402 in his blog http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745 That is basically what I said over the last few days, those 'features' are a great gain over those messed up servers filled with cheaters, god-complexed admins and a ranking system that is as useful as an empty bag of crisps.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Cheat / Hack Free Games: The biggest benefit of using IWnet by far is the fact that you don’t have to worry about joining a server full of aim-bots, wallhacks, or cheaters. Or relying on the server admin of the server to constantly be monitoring, banning, and policing it. Modern Warfare 2 on PC allows us to control the quality of the game much more than ever before as well as utilizing the VAC (Valve-Anti-Cheat) system to keep games clean of hackers and cheaters.

Well that's the biggest pile of ass I've ever heard, VAC exists in most Steam games as it is.

Cheaters cheat through 3rd party programs primarily, cutting dedicated servers will not stop that :laugh: Consoles don't have cheaters to the same extent as you can't run unsigned code.

Having a server admin is actually better as cheaters get perm banned and you can continue to play on that server. How does a votekick from a non-existent temporary server make things better?

[Sethos]

Well that's the biggest pile of ass I've ever heard, VAC exists in most Steam games as it is.

Cheaters cheat through 3rd party programs primarily, cutting dedicated servers will not stop that :laugh: Consoles don't have cheaters to the same extent as you can't run unsigned code.

Yes but when they are gone, they are gone unless they purchase another copy of the game - Not like before where you just found a new server. Such a system is about 300% more effective.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Yes but when they are gone, they are gone unless they purchase another copy of the game - Not like before where you just found a new server. Such a system is about 300% more effective.

Uhhh VAC bans people permanently already, thought you'd know that.

This system still relies on VAC, except the VAC proof hacks that usually idle for a while can't be policed at all until they are picked up. Where as on a dedicated server people can be server banned until VAC kicks in and perm bans them.

[Richard Hammond]

The only reason they have done this is so people cant play hacked copies on cracked servers that dont do key check.

[Sethos]

Uhhh VAC bans people permanently already, thought you'd know that.

And he's just reiterating the point. Yes, I know that :rolleyes:

His response isn't just meant for the Neowin ELITEz of the PC SECTION!1, it's also meant for the 'regular' players as a way to soften the blow, which he did by shrouding the VAC / IWnet thing a bit. Not to mention they could effectively shut out your IP on IWnet, Valve doesn't do that.

[Fagutish]

I think the massive backlash against this decision has been about the added restriction this brings to this game. It's a crippling lack of freedom most PC gamers aren't used to. Of course there are opinions for and against this added freedom and the complexity (and possible conflict) the freedom brings with it.

We should calm down and understand just how dangerous this trend may become. There is a reason they didn't pull this kind of massive change with a lower profile game. Activision/IW/Whocares is testing the waters to see if a more closed console-esque gaming experience won't scare off too many players. God help us all if this experiment works.

Now about 402's blog post. It's debatable that the removal of dedicated third-party servers will improve performance. It's also debatable that the party system and private games will fulfill the needs most serious clans require. But it is very questionable to point out dedicated servers as the cesspool of hacking 402 makes it seem like. Now don't get me wrong, I think MW2 will be much more resilient against hacking, but thats because they have transitioned to VAC from punkbuster. Nevertheless, there are many VAC-powered traditional multilayer games out there that work perfectly fine. A few examples are CS:S and TF2. Not that I'm implying those games are immune to hacking, no games ever are.

I don't understand why some people are feverishly defending the developer's position and parroting their talking points. Even if you LOVE matchmaking systems, the removal of dedicated servers DOES NOT benefit ANYONE in the gaming community. This more than a lack of server browser, this is about playing our games the way we want them with the freedom only PC gamers enjoy.

[Treemonkeys]

Waiting to be paired up? It takes an average of 5 seconds to find a game when you have selected your game-mode, most of the time games are already in the process of the lobby count-down when you join. It does NOT take much longer than filtering and going through a bunch of servers, at all. Everyone are just going nuts because it's a radical chance and no one is opened minded enough to give it a chance, despite the system is proven and it works perfectly.

A server browser gives the user much more power on how they find a game, where the game is hosted at, what kind of connection the server has, etc. All with about the same amount of time to get into a game, so you get that much more power and control without much cost. On top of that most people tend to create a list of "favorite" servers which can often create smaller communities in the game, places they can go to see regular faces, places to meet up with their friends, places to get more of a challenge, etc. It adds a whole new dimension to the game that will be completely gone with matchmaking.

On top of that, even under the most ideal of conditions - a host with a great connection, clients all with a great connections in the same geographical area, no torrents etc. running on the host network - you still have one guy out of how many running around with 0 latency, as if there is no network. This is a huge advantage and does not fit will with a competitive FPS game. It is inferior, quite simply.

The one and only obvious reason why matchmaking is better is because it saves publishers/developers money they would have spent hosting servers. That's it. I cannot believe you guys are actually debating this, maybe your love for the game franchise is clouding your judgment.

Lets see would I rather play a competitive FPS where everyone in the game has a ping less than 100 or where everyone in the game has a ping greater than 300 with one guy running around at 0. Hmmmmmmmmmm

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Just noticed something else

However, say you?re in a clan and you want to play a Clan match with another team, or you want to practice for an upcoming tournament that has specific rules in a private game. Then you can start Private Match (which is essentially like running your own private server)b> where you have complete control over the rules, who can join, boot players you don?t want, and essentially control the entire game or tweak it to your liking. Once the rules are set, you can invite the other team in or just start it up with your clan to practice with the custom rules before the match. This now allows you to play custom games out of the box without the need to install mods, find a modded server with the rules you like, or worry about not being in control of the match.

Talk about grasping at straws to try and claim functionality that's not there/completely crippled, still exists.

I think the massive backlash against this decision has been about the added restriction this brings to this game. It's a crippling lack of freedom most PC gamers aren't used to. Of course there are opinions for and against this added freedom and the complexity (and possible conflict) the freedom brings with it.

We should calm down and understand just how dangerous this trend may become. There is a reason they didn't pull this kind of massive change with a lower profile game. Activision/IW/Whocares is testing the waters to see if a more closed console-esque gaming experience won't scare off too many players. God help us all if this experiment works.

Now about 402's blog post. It's debatable that the removal of dedicated third-party servers will improve performance. It's also debatable that the party system and private games will fulfill the needs most serious clans require. But it is very questionable to point out dedicated servers as the cesspool of hacking 402 makes it seem like. Now don't get me wrong, I think MW2 will be much more resilient against hacking, but thats because they have transitioned to VAC from punkbuster. Nevertheless, there are many VAC-powered traditional multilayer games out there that work perfectly fine. A few examples are CS:S and TF2. Not that I'm implying those games are immune to hacking, no games ever are.

I don't understand why some people are feverishly defending the developer's position and parroting their talking points. Even if you LOVE matchmaking systems, the removal of dedicated servers DOES NOT benefit ANYONE in the gaming community. This more than a lack of server browser, this is about playing our games the way we want them with the freedom only PC gamers enjoy.

Bingo, it goes against everything PC online gaming has represented for the past decade +.

Nothing wrong with trying to bring in matchmaking, but everything wrong with completely torching the past.

[Sethos]

Talk about grasping at straws to try and claim functionality that's not there/completely crippled, still exists.

You can configure your private matches to a big extend.

[etempest]

This sounds like the want a way to kill the game if it's too popular down the road and people still play it.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

You can configure your private matches to a big extend.

Yeah what a load of fun doing and trying to coordinate that every single time as opposed to having your clan server.

It is abundantly less efficient and more crippled than the current way of doing things. Clans have a much bigger presence on the PC.

Not to mention configurable? Yeah some IW pre-select options, running your own server will show you configuration.

[Treemonkeys]

But it is very questionable to point out dedicated servers as the cesspool of hacking 402 makes it seem like. Now don't get me wrong, I think MW2 will be much more resilient against hacking, but thats because they have transitioned to VAC from punkbuster. Nevertheless, there are many VAC-powered traditional multilayer games out there that work perfectly fine. A few examples are CS:S and TF2. Not that I'm implying those games are immune to hacking, no games ever are.

Another plus for dedicated servers, even in the most hack ridden game, you can always find at least a few servers with strict moderation that let you enjoy the game how it was meant to be played.

I don't understand why some people are feverishly defending the developer's position and parroting their talking points. Even if you LOVE matchmaking systems, the removal of dedicated servers DOES NOT benefit ANYONE in the gaming community. This more than a lack of server browser, this is about playing our games the way we want them with the freedom only PC gamers enjoy.

Yep, I don't understand it either, it benefits the profit margins but is bad for anyone actually playing the game.

[Sethos]

Yeah what a load of fun doing and trying to coordinate that every single time as opposed to having your clan server.

Coordinate lawl, join server, configure, launch.

[Treemonkeys]

Coordinate lawl, join server, configure, launch.

vs. a dedicated server that is up 24/7, that I have preset to rotate the maps and gametypes of my choosing, that I can control from the console, that my friends can jump in at anytime, that randoms can jump in at anytime to keep a needed level of players, that does not have a host running around with an advantage, etc.

lawl

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Coordinate lawl, join server, configure, launch.

Yeah coordinate, a clan server is there 24/7, people don't need to communicate to anyone, they can just go join when they're ready. No need to search for the server, name, who's hosting it, what the password is this time, etc.

Far less efficient, no defence against.

[Sethos]

And costs money for something that takes 5 seconds less, lawl.

[+SOOPRcow MVC]

The money cost has never been a problem before, don't even try and throw that out there. And Sethos, I love how you just constantly ignore the player size problem. Its just not practical to have a 32 player game on almost all home connections.

[protocol7]

The one plus I could see in the new system is servers would no longer be able to dictate stupid rules, weapon restrictions etc. But surely all IW would have to do is release a dumber dedicated server where the admins no longer have that much control over the game. That way everyone gets the same game without all this matchmaking fuss. The more you read, the less it sounds like improving the lot of the community and more about shutting out cracked servers. I have no objection to them doing what they can to protect their product from rampant piracy, but they couldn't have gone about it in a worse manner.

[Spookie]

And costs money for something that takes 5 seconds less, lawl.

Setting up the "server" - 30-60 seconds

Inviting everyone - god knows, depend on how crammed the auth server is say 20 seconds to be kind

Starting, waiting for everyone to connect - another 15 seconds at the minimum

Possibly having to wait for the map to change so you can get a full set of rounds in, then re configuring it all again because you can't change the map? - Priceless.

[Treemonkeys]

And costs money for something that takes 5 seconds less, lawl.

As always, you get what you pay for. I'm not paying for MW2 garbage multiplayer.

[Sethos]

The money cost has never been a problem before, don't even try and throw that out there. And Sethos, I love how you just constantly ignore the player size problem. Its just not practical to have a 32 player game on almost all home connections.

You'll be surprised when you see the imposed player limit as well.

See, more you can whine about! Go go! Milk it for all its worth.

As always, you get what you pay for. I'm not paying for MW2 garbage multiplayer.

Then what's the problem? Move along.

[Treemonkeys]

Setting up the "server" - 30-60 seconds

Inviting everyone - god knows, depend on how crammed the auth server is say 20 seconds to be kind

Starting, waiting for everyone to connect - another 15 seconds at the minimum

Possibly having to wait for the map to change so you can get a full set of rounds in, then re configuring it all again because you can't change the map? - Priceless.

hahaha

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The one plus I could see in the new system is servers would no longer be able to dictate stupid rules, weapon restrictions etc. But surely all IW would have to do is release a dumber dedicated server where the admins no longer have that much control over the game. That way everyone gets the same game without all this matchmaking fuss. The more you read, the less it sounds like improving the lot of the community and more about shutting out cracked servers. I have no objection to them doing what they can to protect their product from rampant piracy, but they couldn't have gone about it in a worse manner.

I don't know why people constantly bitch about this, pretty much every game I've played has a slew of official servers, and then a load of respectable servers from the likes of Jolt/Multiplay/Fileplanet/Wireplay/Other gaming sites.

All of them unless noted are pretty much what I call semi-official servers, they'll be vanilla settings, and are usually online 24/7 all year.

The worst I ever tend to come across is custom sounds/stat tracking.

Maybe it's because I don't go for the servers called "JOHNZ PRIVATE GAME LULZ", or "THIS SERVER HAS NO GRAVITY AND SNIPERZ ONLY".

[Treemonkeys]

Then what's the problem? Move along.

lol you don't even want to know

Just enjoying neowin on a great day. ;)