MW2: No Dedicated Servers, No Mods

[S00N3R FR3AK]

Ok I play CoD4 on the 360 where I guess we have P2P and have just as little connection problems as I do playing L4D or BF2 on the PC. Do PC players sit in a world thinking console players play in crappy lag fest or does XBL and PSN make that much of a difference?

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Ok I play CoD4 on the 360 where I guess we have P2P and have just as little connection problems as I do playing L4D or BF2 on the PC. Do PC players sit in a world thinking console players play in crappy lag fest or does XBL and PSN make that much of a difference?

I hear what you are saying and I actually get the point you are making, and I do agree to an extent, I think the whole misconception about this is going to create poor connections is just that, a misconception, but honestly I think it is being used so much because it as an example of the type of freedom PC players have come to love. Meaning I do know PC players prefer, and are used to, seeing those bars or that number (preferably in the single digits or low teens) that represents their ping so they can decide for themselves were they play.

[Spookie]

So really, I don't see the justification there. And whoever wrote that news article with "PC fanboys" in the title... :hmmm:

Forgive him, he has to give a verbal handjob to every publisher & developer so they can scrape world exclusives so their pitiful outdated games magazine can stay on the printers.

[Blackhearted]

I don't see what all the crying is about - the matchmaking system works FINE on consoles and I don't see why it should be a problem on PCs either.

Sounds more like it's yet-another-tantrum from the "pure" computer players that feel they're "better than those poor console noobs who are just casual players and they're ruining our gaming waa!". Well I got news for you pals, you ruined your own gaming platform by pirating the whole system to shreds.

You're an ignorant fool. Please, do your self a favor and go back to your obviously beloved console and don't post again.

[briangw]

Wow, reading some of these posts are hilarious. You all know that you will either buy or "borrow" it when it comes out, especially those who proclaim they will not buy/play it. :rolleyes:

[Chemaz]

dont know if its been mentioned but they responded y'day http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745

looks like it wont be changed and that they cant really implement both and it seems "majority" of cod4 players said they basically wanted this :s but according to the petition 100k+ (yeah sum will be duplicates so probs around 70k+ in a few days say no lol, so dont know where they got their info from

I know some ppl are for it, I for one arent, i couldnt see a problem with the old system, u chose the server u wanted to play in with the maps u wanted to play and the restrictions u wanted in place and whats wrong with mods? The new system, yeah u get a little choice but not much, i'd rather have full control over the server i want to join and i like joining maps with loads of ppl on. Just seems to me they're dumbing it down for the minority rather than the majority (ie the ppl that made online gaming popular)

As for whether i buy it or not, i think i may pirate it for the single player, then may buy it a few weeks later when there servers are bk up (as they will be down quite a lot during the first week) and iv seen the reviews/comments on the new system

O and why why why why why VAC punkbuster isnt great but vac is worse :(

Edited October 21, 2009 by chemaz101

[Richard Hammond]

The point is they want a closed system so they can shaft PC players for DLC, that petition means nothing, out of a potential 13 million sales of what CoD4 did only 100k people have signed the petition, Activision doesnt really give a toss as they will make their money back off the 12,900,000 other people.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Dunno if this has been posted, but talk about GameInformer riding Activisions dick to get their free swag bags and review copies :laugh:

Shamefully written article (N)

At least Gamasutra know how to report on it - http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25691

Editors opinion @ Gamasutra, kept out of the report for article neutrality

As someone who played the PC version of Call of Duty 4, I find this to be a pretty egregious omission. It's one thing to raise the price of the game to $60, even with no platform royalty fees to be paid, but to actually refuse to include functionality that has for over a decade been an integral part of the PC multiplayer experience is just atrocious.

The entire tradition of clan-based and forum- and site-based community multiplayer on the PC is entirely dependent on the concept of privately-run servers. It's a great collaboration between developer and community: the developer provides a service open enough that it can be run in accordance to the community's preferences, and the community shoulders the cost and effort necessary to support the servers themselves.

PCs will never be as streamlined and standardized as consoles--but by the same token, consoles can never provide as open and community-customized an experience as PCs. Trying to simply turn a PC into a console by closing off the routes that make the PC experience unique isn't going to provide a better experience for anyone.

EA/DICE must be having a field day with all of this :laugh:

edit: DICE laying some smack down

Alright Sulla, here is a discussion on the issue from DICE's viewpoint on a range of topics.

DICE feels that because the console versions of the game is at such a lower resolution (1280x720), compared to PC resolutions (as high as 2560x1600), that prone was breaking the fast paced action of the game and that it was too camper friendly. When DICE played with prone on consoles other players were nearly impossible to see while prone (until it was too late), and the matches often resulted in a camping festival between the defending team and the attacking team, complete with smores and campfire songs. The overall atmosphere felt slow, and the game wasn?t at its full fast-paced potential. When DICE played the matches with the prone turned off, it forced camping players to put more thought into their hiding spots, and it gave the attackers less of a disadvantage being able to see who was shooting at them and resulted in more fast paced gameplay. People like yourself can go on and on about how in real life prone is the most important battle stance in a firefight, but obviously this isn?t real life, and you should play ARMA2 or something if you really want it, or purchase the PC version .

Now, the reasons the PC platform are getting seemingly ?better? features in the game are a result of DICE ignoring the PC user base for the past 3-4 years and this is a homage to the PC platform, and also because it?s a lot of things that PC users simply deserve. If you have played games on the PC for the last ten years you would know what I?m talking about, otherwise I won?t even try to explain... Also, k1ll8 saurav is completely correct about the difference of player?s between PC and consoles, and dedicated servers for PC?s are a must for any game like this on a PC platform, so don?t take it the wrong way. I don?t know DICE?s stance on clan support for the console version at this time, they have been back and forth on the topic and I don?t know why. If I find out I?ll let you know

Regarding player count on the pc?PC?s for obvious reason have much more powerful tech, thus allowing much more flexibility with things such as increased player count, so it would be flat out stupid to not take advantage of this and make the game more worthy of being on the PC instead of a direct port from a console version. You may say that this isn?t fair, but it really is and everything balances out (hey, we don?t get a slick Xbox LIVE interface and if I wanted that then I should play the xbox version). If you wanted a more powerful game, you should have bought a more powerful platform, plain and simple.

Prone- I don?t consider prone a real feature to get all excited about for the PC version, but I suppose people like you have proven me wrong. Regardless, as of right now prone is not going to be on the console version and I gave the reasons above.

Last but not least, the PC platform is usually expected to put up with a lot more ?crap? compared to consoles. While consoles may get the game on a certain date, PC users typically have to wait much longer for the same game, but in turn, they get the game for a lower price because there are no licensing fees like consoles have, and typically they get a few more perks thrown in compared to consoles just for good measure. PC customers are a much tougher crowd then consoles are so we have to appeal to them in as many ways as possible, but why not? They deserve it after having a steady history of constantly getting the shaft. Also on a side note, If it wasn?t for the PC platform you wouldn?t be playing the game on consoles right now.

Anyway, regarding prone -because there is still plenty of dev time, there is a slim chance in can end up implemented in the game... but because of the reasons I stated above I want to emphasize that it is definitely a slim chance.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Audioboxer

[Snowl]

I've got an 8/1 (scrap that, it's been bumped to 10/1 2 months ago) connection and it's a relatively low speed connection. How can you guys live like that? :p :rofl:

You should move to australia.

WOW! 4 gig of data on a 512mb connection for 40 dollars! EPIC! :sad:

[zeke009]

I'd love for a game to come along and to offer the console crowd an option of dedicated servers. Let them see what they have been missing the entire time. Until then, I don't think most will understand the reasons the PC crowd is so upset.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I'd love for a game to come along and to offer the console crowd an option of dedicated servers. Let them see what they have been missing the entire time. Until then, I don't think most will understand the reasons the PC crowd is so upset.

Warhawk on the PS3 lets you run your own dedicated server.

Can you talk a little about the server technology you're using on Warhawk, what the Integrated Server Technology is and how it helps Warhawk do what it does better?

DJ: For us Warhawk is a standout title because, among other things, it is launching with world wide connectivity. Players from any of our territories, and that is US, Canada, all the countries in Europe, Russia, China, Korea, Japan, and Australia, can all play together at the same time and all of their stats get posted to this huge crazy stat farm so you can see who's the best. In addition to that it put an interesting load on our system, and again it's not a revolutionary server model, it's a model that people have been using in the PC world for quite some time, we just took a different approach. So we said look, now the PS3 is fast enough where it can host a large number of players, it's got a very fast network connection built in, and it can be our server because it gives players the freedom to not be force into the mother ship at Sony. As a bit of trivia, for the first couple of days of our public beta, there was not a single Sony server running but it didn't matter because there were enough gamers out there that wanted to host their own games that we had 70 servers running and none of them were ours, players just started them. So it allows us to distribute out game load. Players can always play on Sony servers, and can see in the photos we have posted on our website that there are a lot, and what you see in the photos aren't even all of them, that's just row one of very fast dedicated servers running on specific rotations, but at the same you can always host your own game. If you have a clan, if you're in a dorm and want to set up your University of Michigan server for example you can set it up and let it run in the background it's like folding at home but it's not something that's socially advancing, it's just fun. That distributes server load all over the world, and with as fast as Warhawk is we needed to make sure servers were as close to players as possible.

What's the difference between players using their own server and using the Sony servers?

DJ: There's no difference. Code wise we made no differentiation at all. We wanted players to be able to host a first class server on their own. For moderation purposes all Sony servers are listed in a blue font on the server list and they'll say something like SCEA_doc.fight and it'll sure up in blue; aside from the coloring though, their identical. All the admin options that Sony admins have, like they can set up a rotation like, I want to do this dog fight level two times, and then I want to do a capture the flag level with this boundary and then I want to make sure no split screen is allowed, or maybe your clan wants to level up, you know -rank up. So you just set up a machine as a rank dedicated server. You can even setup Warhawk to just run in the background with no graphics what-so-ever, and again like folding at home, set up a server rotation, give it a clan message, or maybe you run an ISP for 'Joe's ISP' or whatever, give it a name, give it a server message and let it run in the background and it'll just draw a simple little status update window where you can see all the players, what their pings are, how many points the have and that's it. But again it's new to the console world, so that's cool that Warhawk's doing it, but some of that technology and that approach is stuff that PC gamers have been enjoying for years.

It does have to be run through a PS3 though, not a PC, but that's the best you'll ever get, consoles are never opening up as much as PCs. However Warhawk, a 2007 console game has better server functionality than MW2 coming out for the PC in November 2009 :laugh:

[leph555]

I could care less that there are no mods, but no dedicated servers WTF?

[Matt]

Why all the fuss?

People into online gaming must have at least 512Kb/s upload rates. That's more than enough to host a match.

It's not like everyone's still using dial up :p

you fail to realize that online pc gaming usually consists of 24-64 player servers.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I hardly no any ISP here in the UK that offers decent upload rates. im on a 2.5mb line and have an upload rate between 200-300, unless your on cable or close to the exchange if ur on adsl you get shocking upload rates and i reckon thats gona be the same for a lot of ppl

Not only this but most UK ISP's throttle torrent ports during peak times. I'm on BT (not out of choice) and they block ports between 9am and 12am. So basically the only time I could play this game is after midnight, which is a bit dumb.

[shakey]

a friend has told me 16 player cap on pc............

[Spartan Erik]

shakey, I don't know who your friend heard that from, but that sounds highly unlikely.

That would be the nail in MW2's coffin if that were the case

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

a friend has told me 16 player cap on pc............

The console version is capped at 16 I believe, so it might be true.

On the console that's quite poor tbh, on a PC it's a complete lawlfest :laugh:

[Ricardo Gil]

you fail to realize that online pc gaming usually consists of 24-64 player servers.

And you fail to realize that these guys have been doing this for years. They should know better than us if it'll work or not.

Not only this but most UK ISP's throttle torrent ports during peak times. I'm on BT (not out of choice) and they block ports between 9am and 12am. So basically the only time I could play this game is after midnight, which is a bit dumb.

And why would you play CoD through bit torrent ports? :huh:

[John Freeman]

shakey, I don't know who your friend heard that from, but that sounds highly unlikely.

That would be the nail in MW2's coffin if that were the case

Well, that wouldn't even be the worst thing. At least compared to some of cod4 gangbang servers that would actually provide the opportunity for tactical teamplay. And especially compared to dedicated server thingy...

[Ridlas]

And you fail to realize that these guys have been doing this for years. They should know better than us if it'll work or not.

And why would you play CoD through bit torrent ports? :huh:

Because p2p uses the same ports as torrents.

[dead.cell]

shakey, I don't know who your friend heard that from, but that sounds highly unlikely.

That would be the nail in MW2's coffin if that were the case

Pretty much. I mean, I had no intentions of buying the game until I saw just how well the whole "no-dedicated server" thing played out... but if that's the case, forget it. :/

Plenty of good games coming out pretty soon anyway, including Borderlands for PC on Monday I believe.

[Treemonkeys]

And you fail to realize that these guys have been doing this for years. They should know better than us if it'll work or not.

It has worked in Cod4, hell it worked in Halo 2. It's not a question of if it will work, it's just inferior, they will drop the player count (probably to 16) and trade a low ping for a nice dose of client side hit detection, but of course it will work.

[s1k3sT]

Please... if games are crap don't play them. It's not a reason to pirate.

How would you know if the game is crap when most games don't release demos anymore?

[Ricardo Gil]

Because p2p uses the same ports as torrents.

Please, go read up on what P2P means.

It's just a concept, not a protocol per se. You can use whatever free port you want.

How would you know if the game is crap when most games don't release demos anymore?

You're on the Internet, are you not? Videos, pictures, reviews, user opinion. I'd say that's enough.

[shakey]

Please, go read up on what P2P means.

It's just a concept, not a protocol per se. You can use whatever free port you want.

You're on the Internet, are you not? Videos, pictures, reviews, user opinion. I'd say that's enough.

Wow richard, are you being cereal here? PC gamers are treated like pirates before they even purchase said material.

Videos, reviews, pictures, and user opinions are all good, but in THIS real world, most of that is all bought out by producers for good reviews and FMV videos that don't showcase anything about the actual game. Once a PC buys it, he can not return it. Doesn't matter if the game is bugged to hell, no money back. Doesn't matter if his computer beats the rec reqs and it still doesn't run, no money back.

Since they refuse to treat us like customers, why should we show them the time of day as a business? And hell, it seems ok for any business to try and nickle and dime its customers to death, but when a customer speaks up or tries to show the business one up, its the little man who's wrong..... what a messed up society we have built upon.