Opera 10.50 RC for Windows Released

[elantheros]

And it doesn't change the fact many other doesn't have any problems. I understand some have trouble but that's just a fact with applications. Have I said Opera 10.5 is a perfect software? Far from it. I'm just telling you I haven't had any issues at all. Anyone having issues should remove it and delete all files and then do a clean install. That solves 90% av all problems with Opera.

Isn't there this anecdote about how 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot? :whistle:

There are many levels of bugs. Some are critical, other not. For a software that went from an pre-alpha to a final product in less than 3 months, i would say this is quite impressive (for a browser).

No, it's not. All you need to do is to slap the "final" tag on the product and push it out of the door even though it apparently needs to have stayed as a beta for a few more weeks, or more time to check for regressions from the slew of RCs. It's not being impressive, it's just being plain stupid.

[PreKe]

And there's also a difference between alpha, beta, and final quality releases. Opera 10.50 final clearly does not fit into the last category.

I don't see why that is so "clear". I haven't noticed any major problems, and most people out there don't seem to see it either. However, I do see some Chrome fanboys being nervous because Opera is faster than Chrome now, and thus they start spreading FUD and attacking anyone who dares to hold a different opinion on the matter.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Adblock/Stylish is integrated in Opera. Not sure about the others.

Most of the bugs will not get noticed by the majority of its users. Yes, 10.5 was a rushed release, but it is still better than 10.1 no matter what.

I used all the snapshots since the first release December 22nd. There is a major difference between the alpha, beta and final. Been running the final for 2 days now with no problems. And I run Opera on my PC 24/7 almost.

Adblock is not integrated in Opera, if it were I would not be siing the ads that I am.

[Mike]

Adblock is not integrated in Opera, if it were I would not be siing the ads that I am.

You're confusing content blocking support with a pre populated list of ad servers. Opera can block content out of the "box", you just need to tell it what you want blocking.

[Saint Shiv]

You're confusing content blocking support with a pre populated list of ad servers. Opera can block content out of the "box", you just need to tell it what you want blocking.

I think the point remains that there is no UI element such as Adblock. I did download the urlfilter and adblock.css but it still has a feeling left desired. Opera is a much better browser than 'the rest' but I still feel without my most prized extensions, I cannot make the switch... yet.

Just curious why people have these browser banners in their signature, seems beyond silly. (Not just Opera but other browsers too; Chrome, Firefox)

[PreKe]

Yeah, the irony of people with a huge browser sign in their sig accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being fanboys is quite obvious :D

[HawkMan]

I think the point remains that there is no UI element such as Adblock. I did download the urlfilter and adblock.css but it still has a feeling left desired. Opera is a much better browser than 'the rest' but I still feel without my most prized extensions, I cannot make the switch... yet.

you mean there's no ui element that lets you click on the images and flash ads you want to block ? something that shows up when say... you right click the webpage and select block content ? Is that what it doesn't have ?

[Denis W. Veteran]

and is there a Greasemonkey/Stylish equivalent?

They're built in. If you want to specify custom JS globally (like GreaseMonkey) then go to Preferences > Advanced > Content, hit JavaScript Options, and specify the folder containing your custom JS scripts. Likewise, for custom CSS sheets, under the same window hit Style Options, and there's a place to specify a custom CSS for all sites.

For individual sites, the same procedure can be done by right clicking the page and selecting Edit Site Preferences.

Another +1!! x-byte + PreKe make me want to uninstall Opera from my PC.

Oh great, here comes a war of the signatures... which is silly.

[brentaal]

you mean there's no ui element that lets you click on the images and flash ads you want to block ? something that shows up when say... you right click the webpage and select block content ? Is that what it doesn't have ?

No, what it doesn't have is a GUI for handling block lists or an easy way to update them automatically.

Also, still no FTP client.

[Quillz]

No, what it doesn't have is a GUI for handling block lists or an easy way to update them automatically.

Also, still no FTP client.

Do browsers really need built-in FTP clients? None of the major browsers have one (unless you count the FireFTP extension for Firefox). It's not that hard to just get a standalone FTP utility. I think Opera's BitTorrent client is overkill as it is. (And it's the first thing I always turn off in Opera.)

[PreKe]

Opera does have an FTP client, doesn't it?

As for automatically updated block lists, there are third party solutions for that (just like AdBlock is a third party solution).

[Saint Shiv]

They're built in. If you want to specify custom JS globally (like GreaseMonkey) then go to Preferences > Advanced > Content, hit Javascript Options, and specify the folder containing your custom JS scripts. Likewise, for custom CSS sheets, under the same window hit Style Options, and there's a place to specify a custom CSS for all sites.

For individual sites, the same procedure can be done by right clicking the page and selecting Edit Site Preferences.

Oh great, here comes a war of the signatures... which is silly.

Thanks, I found all these features after I posted... I still feel it isn't as easy as firefox. I have to take more time to set it up, just like Chrome. I think it is a really nice browser, I'm going to pin it to my start menu but I won't be using it too often.

[Joshie]

Do browsers really need built-in FTP clients? None of the major browsers have one (unless you count the FireFTP extension for Firefox). It's not that hard to just get a standalone FTP utility. I think Opera's BitTorrent client is overkill as it is. (And it's the first thing I always turn off in Opera.)

Yeah, the BT client was always one of my top five gripes about past versions of Opera. They've toned it down dramatically now, and though I wouldn't cry if it disappeared, I think I can maybe appreciate integrating a basic torrenter in the spirit of mainstreaming access to torrent downloads. Maybe.

FTP, on the other hand, has always been a chore from a web browser for anything beyond downloading files. Nothing compares to a proper dual-pane FTP client with access to the full range of commands--if you still use FTP to begin with. Not to knock people that do, but it sure doesn't feel like a protocol I've seen in use outside of some open source projects and...'specialty' servers you find out about in IRC channels. Exceptions abound, but it's today's impression. It's a shame, though. I have a soft spot for old protocols (here's lookin' at you, gopher).

I like to keep these applications separate to keep updates efficient. Unification is great sometimes, but one piece of software with web, email, torrent, AND ftp? Every little update would require a whole new version of the entire suite--I certainly didn't think Opera had some sort of patch culture.

Remember, Netscape Communicator LOST to a more modular approach.

[PreKe]

Remember, Netscape Communicator LOST to a more modular approach.

Netscape lost to a browser that was bundled with the dominant operating system.

[Joshie]

Netscape lost to a browser that was bundled with the dominant operating system.

No, they lost to simplicity. That IE was bundled gave it a leg-up, but Netscape still had a reputation as being "the internet". People recommended it whole-heartedly, and countless websites were coded intentionally and childishly not to show up in Internet Explorer. But it still failed. When IE was pushed back down a notch, what browser came along and offered serious competition? Firefox. Well, Firebird. Well, Phoenix. Ahem. What was everyone saying about it? "It's fast!" "It's minimalistic!" "There's no bloat!"

What next? Chrome--more simplicity! And it's doing well. The only browser having trouble is Opera, and it also happens to have the most packed into it (short of SeaMonkey, which isn't even in the game, frankly). Is that the reason? Maybe a little. Newbies and just-make-it-workies will see Opera as being too complex for something as simple as web browsing.

Simple works. Even if IE hadn't ever existed, there was still an open source software movement. Eventually a free stand-alone web browser would've come along, and Netscape would've been challenged. IE had the extra weapon of bundling, but simplicity was what made it attractive. It was about the sites, not the browser. You weren't bombarded with an interface that could do 500 things, so it was that much easier to simply immerse yourself in the web.

[Draconian Guppy]

Well for minimalistic, I think 10.5 has come a long way from 8 and 9!

[carmatic]

No, they lost to simplicity. That IE was bundled gave it a leg-up, but Netscape still had a reputation as being "the internet". People recommended it whole-heartedly, and countless websites were coded intentionally and childishly not to show up in Internet Explorer. But it still failed. When IE was pushed back down a notch, what browser came along and offered serious competition? Firefox. Well, Firebird. Well, Phoenix. Ahem. What was everyone saying about it? "It's fast!" "It's minimalistic!" "There's no bloat!"

What next? Chrome--more simplicity! And it's doing well. The only browser having trouble is Opera, and it also happens to have the most packed into it (short of SeaMonkey, which isn't even in the game, frankly). Is that the reason? Maybe a little. Newbies and just-make-it-workies will see Opera as being too complex for something as simple as web browsing.

Simple works. Even if IE hadn't ever existed, there was still an open source software movement. Eventually a free stand-alone web browser would've come along, and Netscape would've been challenged. IE had the extra weapon of bundling, but simplicity was what made it attractive. It was about the sites, not the browser. You weren't bombarded with an interface that could do 500 things, so it was that much easier to simply immerse yourself in the web.

thing is, i was actually surprised to see that there was an IRC client built into Opera... it doesnt push the features it has, i thought it was as simple as all the other browsers until i started poking around in the menus and options... the first time i used it, i typed something into the address bar and pressed enter... i couldnt see any buttons other than new tab, back, forwards, reload/cancel ...?

so your claim that newbies will find it too complex, well, is simply not true

[Draconian Guppy]

thing is, i was actually surprised to see that there was an IRC client built into Opera... it doesnt push the features it has, i thought it was as simple as all the other browsers until i started poking around in the menus and options... the first time i used it, i typed something into the address bar and pressed enter... i couldnt see any buttons other than new tab, back, forwards, reload/cancel ...

so your claim that newbies will find it too complex, well, is simply not true

I agree, the default opera 10.5 does not throw all the features at you, but if you look fore them/need them they are there. If they can put X feature in it, with out it using more memory/processor, then why not?

Edit: though I gotta give it to the one's who've said 10.5 uses a lot of memory!

[carmatic]

I agree, the default opera 10.5 does not through all the features at you, but if you look fore them/need them they are there. If they can put X feature in it, with out it using more memory/processor, then why not?

its kinda ironic that opera browser has more features in it than those 'browser-only' operating systems for tablets, netbooks and phones... i bet none of them could host a web server out of the box

[ViperAFK]

I like opera's built in features. For example IRC is something I use very rarely, certainly not enough that I have an irc progeam installed but when I occasionally do need it its right there in my browser. I dont use torrent or mail but they don't bother me in the least and dont take up extra resources when I am not using them.

Opera is not any harder to use than any other browser, it doesnt have a horrible UI like seamonkey, having a lot of features does not hurt it. Its UI is quite minimalistic now, more so than firefox's default UI for sure.

[Denis W. Veteran]

There's also the small things that make some parts of Opera better than the others. Example: in Opera's downloads manager, the shell menu is attached to the 'Advanced' menu option. You can use this to invoke your archive extractor's shell menu options, check up on a file's hash (using HashTab or equivalent), delete the file, etc.

The IRC client's okay if you infrequently use IRC. For frequent use, not so much. For example, it doesn't allow you to specify alternate nicknames to connect with if your current name is in use.

[PreKe]

No, they lost to simplicity.

No, what happened was that bundling IE gave it a huge advantage, and it quickly reached critical mass, to a point where sites started only working in IE (because Microsoft wanted it that way), which accelerated the process. You mentioned that some sites tried to block IE, but those were amateur sites with low traffic.

When IE was pushed back down a notch, what browser came along and offered serious competition? Firefox. Well, Firebird. Well, Phoenix. Ahem. What was everyone saying about it? "It's fast!" "It's minimalistic!" "There's no bloat!"

What happened was actually that Firefox got free advertising from the likes of Google, and was released a the perfect time: Governments were warning people about IE because of all the security holes. Firefox got where it is today because it was an alternative, and it was heavily advertised by Google.

What next? Chrome--more simplicity! And it's doing well.

No, Chrome is doing well because Google stopped advertising Firefox, and started advertising Chrome through its online ad monopoly. Notice how Firefox has stalled now that Google stopped pushing it?

The only browser having trouble is Opera, and it also happens to have the most packed into it

How is Opera in trouble? Opera's desktop revenue has consistently increased by 50-100% yearly, and the user base has more than doubled every two years.

Is that the reason? Maybe a little. Newbies and just-make-it-workies will see Opera as being too complex for something as simple as web browsing.

The problem is that Opera is just a browser by default. All those additional features stay disabled or hidden until the user activates them.

[Fluxii Media]

No, what happened was that bundling IE gave it a huge advantage, and it quickly reached critical mass, to a point where sites started only working in IE (because Microsoft wanted it that way), which accelerated the process. You mentioned that some sites tried to block IE, but those were amateur sites with low traffic.

What happened was actually that Firefox got free advertising from the likes of Google, and was released a the perfect time: Governments were warning people about IE because of all the security holes. Firefox got where it is today because it was an alternative, and it was heavily advertised by Google.

No, Chrome is doing well because Google stopped advertising Firefox, and started advertising Chrome through its online ad monopoly. Notice how Firefox has stalled now that Google stopped pushing it?

How is Opera in trouble? Opera's desktop revenue has consistently increased by 50-100% yearly, and the user base has more than doubled every two years.

The problem is that Opera is just a browser by default. All those additional features stay disabled or hidden until the user activates them.

It's the first time I agree with you PreKe...

well all but the part that Google has an Ad Monopoly... there is no monopoly otherwise they'd get in trouble. :)

And also, can you show REAL PROOF that Opera's revenue has increased by that much? And if that is true, to go from $10 to $20 isn't that big! :D lol.

[PreKe]

well all but the part that Google has an Ad Monopoly... there is no monopoly otherwise they'd get in trouble. :)

Google has an online advertising monopoly. There's nothing illegal about that. There's not necessarily anything wrong about that. It's only wrong if they abuse it.

And also, can you show REAL PROOF that Opera's revenue has increased by that much? And if that is true, to go from $10 to $20 isn't that big! :D lol.

Just look up Opera's quarterly financial reports. They also post the user numbers from time to time. Opera has nearly 50 million desktop users by now. And another 50 million Opera Mini users of course.

Well for minimalistic, I think 10.5 has come a long way from 8 and 9!

You have added quite a lot of extra buttons there, though. That's not what 10.5 looks like by default.

Edit: though I gotta give it to the one's who've said 10.5 uses a lot of memory!

A lot of memory, as in "causes noticeable slowdown", or as in "adapts its memory usage, and uses more to increase performance if more is available"? Opera dynamically adapts the memory usage to the system, while browsers like Firefox have a much more crude way of doing things. That's why it can run on anything from a mobile phone to a monster PC.