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Well, this thread is a blemish on a otherwise spotless record, but with what most people agree on, becoming a subscriber isn't just about the 'extra benefits'.

I've been here since the beginning, yes, since the first week Neobond and Redmak set up this whole thing back in July 2001. There is a good reason why I keep coming back too.

I subscribed not only to support these guys, and a awesome website that this is, but also to support the mods, the news guys, the devs and everyone else who works behind the scenes.

Also, I subscribed to get rid of the ads, I run a adblocker, but this way, being a Subscriber, I can still support the site without feeling guilty that I am blocking their ads. With it being blocked on their end, I'm hurting running costs by still running this software.

So Ozgeek, yes, you have some valid arguments, but also, alot of them are unfounded if you spend so much time here. What exactly is about the website that makes you keep coming back? Whatever that reason is, is also the reason why you could donate or subscribe.

Donating is just as fine as Subscribing btw. Everything counts to keeping this site as awesome as it is. Just remember, everything Neobond and Redmak do, is to benefit us, and not themselves. They do this in their spare time, as a hobby for us. For that reason, I for one, am grateful and proud of them for keeping things pretty much as they were back in 01.

So is it worth subscribing? Yes.

Even if it is for the hardcore pornography subscriber forum. :D

I don't understand what this thread is for - Subscription is an option. If you don't like the features, then don't subscribe. Nobody is really bothered by it.

It's not meant for everyone - like any other product out there.

Plain and simple.

"I don't understand what this thread is for - Subscription is an option"

Wouldn't that be a great extra subscription perk though.. 'Pay 100 ? and a senior staff member will come to your house to clean it once a month. In the buff.'

who told you we were implementing that? someones been leaking info :shiftyninja:

I hope your trolling its a tech forum http://whirlpool.net.au/ :p

Someone complaining about something they dont need to purchase to use the forum? and nothing of importance was lost..

Whirlpool is the brand of a washing machine in the UK, lol.

I just became a subscriber :-)

nice :)

I won't subscribe because i find a lot of the content is taken and re-reported without any credit. You find it a lot on this site. This site is only at this level, because they were in the right place at the right time when people started using web forums.

I am an occasional surfer these days, but mostly subscribe to neowin's sources via twitter... that way i never really need to take the time to visit half the sites.

my 2 cents

+1

I know I contribute just by posting and trying to help others. Every member and every post counts as it attracts more members and more posts. Still, there's a point where costs have to come into play, and that is why subscriptions exist.

This.

We want people to post and help each other, and if that's all someone does, that's still great. Neowin is nothing without active members.

If you subscribe as well, so much the better, since Neowin doesn't exactly have an orchard of money trees to fund it.

The subscriber perks are there as a 'thank you' for people who helps us out financially, but I never understood it to be meant as a 'purchase' as such. "If you support Neowin and love us, please helps us out", not "Buy features x and y and get z half price".

Neowin is unique (like any community of course). The features offered and decisions made are done on the basis of what suits Neowin. We don't really care if forums a, b and c are all offering features x and y. We'll offer features x and y if and only if it's a good choice for our community. When these decisions are made the admins have to take into account the impact on our resources (finances are not actually infinite, anywhere) and the impact on the community. If we removed flood control and had an out of control spamfest it would obviously degrade the quality of the forums.

If you don't want to subscribe no one will hold it against you. It's meant to be a positive show of support if you do, that doesn't translate into anything negative if you don't.

~snip

I would rep you if I hadn't run out of points for the day.

It's our way of showing that we're grateful for what the staff provide, not just in the form of news on the front page but with the forums as well. This is only the second site I've bought a subscription for (The first being deviantART) and I'm more likely to buy one again here because I use the site a lot. I decided it was worth my time to subscribe considering the amount of time I spend here.

I won't subscribe because i find a lot of the content is taken and re-reported without any credit. You find it a lot on this site. This site is only at this level, because they were in the right place at the right time when people started using web forums.

I am an occasional surfer these days, but mostly subscribe to neowin's sources via twitter... that way i never really need to take the time to visit half the sites.

my 2 cents

It's more than just the right place and time. I used to frequent a lot of great forums that died out. They couldn't make the balance between the cost of operation and having a good forum that attracted attention. One of the best forums I ever was a part of was called homegrownhiphopzone.com. It had a great setup, had constant battles and tournaments, it had a LOT of big name hip hop artists on the site who were not only regular posters, but regulars in battles and tournaments. It was probably the best site ever of it's kind. Still, it shut down because of operating costs.

Alright...alright.... I do know it cost money to run but so do the other sites.

What you say about supporting...is clicking on ads also supporting the site??

The other sites you mentioned make money by selling products and services like games and internet connections, Neowin is a tech news website with a forum, they dont make money other than ads and subscriptions.

  • Like 3

You have almost 7000 posts on this forum and you feel you don't need to support it even a little bit? Who cares about what you get for subscribing. It's supporting a forum that you post on quite regularly. Such a weird attitude to take. :wacko:

These are forums, and Neowin is making a profit off of their users, subscribers or not. Is that not supporting Neowin, just by visiting them... I know you fell the need to go above and beyond, well a lot don't becuse there are so many other options out there.

I'm just tired of being nickle and dimed by everyone. I get it in website (like neowin), I get it in the mail, I get it when I go out to dinner, I get it on the phone, I get it when I buy a cup of coffee, I get it, I get it, and I get it again...

You just have to say.... ENOUGH!

These are forums, and Neowin is making a profit off of their users, subscribers or not. Is that not supporting Neowin, just by visiting them... I know you fell the need to go above and beyond, well a lot don't becuse there are so many other options out there.

I'm just tired of being nickle and dimed by everyone. I get it in website (like neowin), I get it in the mail, I get it when I go out to dinner, I get it on the phone, I get it when I buy a cup of coffee, I get it, I get it, and I get it again...

You just have to say.... ENOUGH!

I guess Neowin could just do away with the Free memberships then ?

I doubt they are in a profit from ads, and keeping up such a good site AND paying staff is not cheap, I wouldnt be surprised if they are just breaking even

I doubt they are in a profit from ads, and keeping up such a good site AND paying staff is not cheap, I wouldnt be surprised if they are just breaking even

That is what they want you to think, I hear rumours on the internets that neobond has a gold plated router n stuff :p

I'm just tired of being nickle and dimed by everyone. I get it in website (like neowin), I get it in the mail, I get it when I go out to dinner, I get it on the phone, I get it when I buy a cup of coffee, I get it, I get it, and I get it again...

that sounds like, well, life.

These are forums, and Neowin is making a profit off of their users, subscribers or not. Is that not supporting Neowin, just by visiting them... I know you fell the need to go above and beyond, well a lot don't becuse there are so many other options out there.

I'm just tired of being nickle and dimed by everyone. I get it in website (like neowin), I get it in the mail, I get it when I go out to dinner, I get it on the phone, I get it when I buy a cup of coffee, I get it, I get it, and I get it again...

You just have to say.... ENOUGH!

You try running a profitable business from giving away stuff for free.

You are not forced into a paid membership, no one is looking at you in a bad light for not subscribing.

It's simply there for members who wants to show their appreciation for a website that's given plenty of valuable feedback, information and good laughs to it's members.

I don't understand the purpose of posting why one will not subscribe? If you don't want to subscribe...don't. No reason to post/flaunt the reasons why you will not subscribe. Neowin isn't forcing or sending out daily spam to "Subscribe".

I will subscribe when I get back from my upcoming deployment...or maybe sooner depending on my internet connection in the deployed environment.

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    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
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    • Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good by Usama Jawad I have been using Windows since the early 2000s, when I was around 10 years old or so. I vaguely remember playing around with Windows 98 and Windows 2000, but that may have been on school PCs which had old operating systems installed. My main OS on the home PC, and the one I recall spending most time with, was Windows XP. At that time, I used the home PC to create Word and PowerPoint documents for school, but a lot of the time, I simply used it to play games. My dad would bring game discs which we would try and install on the PC, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes, we would rely on flash games in the browser, like Bubble Trouble on Miniclip. However, the problem with the latter approach was the internet speed. On a good day, our dial-up internet would offer us speeds of 56 kbps, but on most days, it was closer to 33 kbps. 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Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. 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Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. 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