anthdci Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 where as someone caught drink / drugs driving get a driving ban a a couple of hundred ? fine. This guy lost literally everything for beating someone up. (I dont know the full extent but this is generally what assault means) like phenom II says hes done it the wrong way but i see why he is feeling the way he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Yep, our justice system is flawed, to put it nicely -- Update on BBC news, a convoy of police vans has just left rothbury with lights flashing... dont know what was in them yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 From what I heard on the news the criminal justice system has failed in a big way. He was sent to prison for 18 weeks for assault, because of that he lost his business, his girlfriend left him for this other man and he became alienated from the community. He will have sat in prison for that time and from hearing about his girlfriend he will have just been getting angrier and angrier probably fuelled by other inmates. He should be been giving a community sentence of some sort, and had a probation officer to report to. He then could have served his due, but kept his business, maybe kept his girlfriend and none of this would have happened. My uncle is a probation officer and was going on and on about this at the weekend, and I completely agree. They are complaining of prison overcrowding yet they are sending people in who don't really need to go, and getting rid of the jobs that support criminals such as probation. ****ing Torys. Hmm. I don't know. I agree with your suggestion that the criminal justice system has failed here, but I don't think I agree with your solution. I'm more inclined to think that, if it was proven this man had assaulted somebody who hadn't physically harmed him - or wasn't physically trying to harm him - he should have been put down humanely. If that had happened, these people would not have been shot - I'm just saying. I don't believe in harming anybody, even hitting them, unless it is in self-defense or jest (a joke between two mates); however, if somebody has harmed another (a certain amount, which I need to decide), I believe they should be put down in order to protect society. There are too many cases where people go to prison and re-offend when they are released, often murdering somebody/some people. Obviously my views on criminals and violent people are very extreme, but I believe that if my ideas worked, society would be a much safer place. I understand the ideas I've expressed here wouldn't work because of the technicalities; for example, it would possibly be too hard to prove whether somebody was acting in self-defense or whether somebody hadn't hit the person in jest etc. It's a shame; I wish it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Hmm. I don't know. I agree with your suggestion that the criminal justice system has failed here, but I don't think I agree with your solution. I'm more inclined to think that, if it was proven this man had assaulted somebody who hadn't physically harmed him, or wasn't physically trying to harm him, he should have been put down humanely. If that had happened, these people would not have been shot - I'm just saying. I don't believe in harming anybody, even hitting them, unless it is in self-defense or jest (a joke between two mates). Obviously my views on criminals and violent people are very extreme, but I believe that if my views worked, society would be a much safer place. I understand the ideas I've expressed here wouldn't work because of the technicalities; for example, it would possibly be too hard to prove whether somebody was acting in self-defense or whether somebody hadn't hit the person in jest etc. It's a shame; I wish it would work. Put someone to death for assault ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthdci Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Hmm. I don't know. I agree with your suggestion that the criminal justice system has failed here, but I don't think I agree with your solution. I'm more inclined to think that, if it was proven this man had assaulted somebody who hadn't physically harmed him - or wasn't physically trying to harm him - he should have been put down humanely. If that had happened, these people would not have been shot - I'm just saying. what if a some time later he was proven innocent? I agree that the death penalty should be reintroduced for the most serious of crimes, serial killers, serial rapists for example, but it is huge subject to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 Reading parts of his letter, and listening to the circumstances regarding what he is doing, I understand - I do not agree with what he has done at all, but I can sympathise with how he is feeling and why he has done it Taking steroids and being paranoid has led to him actually getting a gun and carrying out, what we only fantasize about doing to our enemys [...] I have never fantasized about shooting/killing an enemy and to do so is very sickening, in my opinion. Put someone to death for assault ? They shouldn't assault people, if they are not using self-defense... what if a some time later he was proven innocent? I agree that the death penalty should be reintroduced for the most serious of crimes, serial killers, serial rapists for example, but it is huge subject to debate. I am aware of that issue, which is one of the reasons I stated my ideas wouldn't work. It is a shame but there is simply no way to prove some criminals are guilty, 100% :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 From what I heard on the news the criminal justice system has failed in a big way. He was sent to prison for 18 weeks for assault, because of that he lost his business, his girlfriend left him for this other man and he became alienated from the community. He will have sat in prison for that time and from hearing about his girlfriend he will have just been getting angrier and angrier probably fuelled by other inmates. He should be been giving a community sentence of some sort, and had a probation officer to report to. He then could have served his due, but kept his business, maybe kept his girlfriend and none of this would have happened. My uncle is a probation officer and was going on and on about this at the weekend, and I completely agree. They are complaining of prison overcrowding yet they are sending people in who don't really need to go, and getting rid of the jobs that support criminals such as probation. ****ing Torys. I disagree. The fact he has carried this whole thing out implies that he was incorrectly sent to prision instead of a phyciatric unit. He obviously has mental health issues. There is nothing to say his GF would have stayed with him, plus the fact he shot Chris thinking he was the police officer that took him to prision to begin with... So in actual fact he didnt even have his facts straight and acted purely out of anger. Lastly, how can you blame the Tories? I believe he would have been sent to prision before they came to power... I have never fantasized about shooting/killing an enemy and to do so is very sickening, in my opinion. I have and im sure others have. To some degree its human nature. However, it is one thing to think about it and another to act upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Ive just clicked on The only reason there is a search going on in Rothbury is because police released the registration and details of the car he was driving, and a woman in the early hours called the police saying she had found the car Later on, they pick up and arrest 2 guys walking down the road, They have not seen or heard from Moat Theory: Moat in Newcastle gives his car to the 2 men, tells them to drive it to rothbury, meanwhile Moat goes a completely different direction while police search the wrong place I have never fantasized about shooting/killing an enemy and to do so is very sickening, in my opinion. They shouldn't assault people, if they are not using self-defense... I am aware of that issue, which is one of the reasons I stated my ideas wouldn't work. It is a shame but there is simply no way to prove some criminals are guilty, 100% :( You obviously have not had someone take your girl and life away from you yet then - but you are thinking of killing someone mearely for assault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Um isn't guns banned in England...Lol hows it working out for you guys over there. Not looking good.Put the guns back in the law abiding citizens hands..It wont happen though the protectionist are to stupid to admit their mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee G. Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 Theory: Moat in Newcastle gives his car to the 2 men, tells them to drive it to rothbury, meanwhile Moat goes a completely different direction while police search the wrong place It's not even Moat's car. It's someone else's car, but police believe that Moat has been using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Um isn't guns banned in England...Lol hows it working out for you guys over there. Not looking good. No they are not banned, you need a license It's not even Moat's car. It's someone else's car, but police believe that Moat has been using it. Ah ok, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee G. Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 Um isn't guns banned in England...Lol hows it working out for you guys over there. Not looking good. Moat used a shotgun. They're not banned; as Phenom II has said, you need a license. Handguns, however, have been banned since 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 No they are not banned, you need a license Ah ok, Oh come on they are pretty much banned to get that license you have to jump through lots of hoops to get one. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inklin Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I have a feeling this guy is already gone and out of the area that is being searched, he most likely wont be out of the country though, I expect all ports are on alert just incase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Oh come on they are pretty much banned to get that license you have to jump through lots of hoops to get one. lol I dont know the exact gun laws, but Derek bird owned his guns legally and they were no BB shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 [...] I have and im sure others have. To some degree its human nature. However, it is one thing to think about it and another to act upon it. If it's human nature to fantasise about killing somebody, the surely it's human nature to actually kill them? (I know you didn't suggest it wasn't, but I'm just clarifying with you). I'm not sure whether it is human nature - maybe with some humans it is, but I still stand by my opinion that it is sickening and if somebody fantasises about killing anybody (especially killing them inhumanely), I don't see how that person can be a nice person at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Um isn't guns banned in England...Lol hows it working out for you guys over there. Not looking good.Put the guns back in the law abiding citizens hands..It wont happen though the protectionist are to stupid to admit their mistakes. Lol, troll much? Guns are not banned, it just takes a lot to gain a licence in comparison to the US. That being said, it works quite well not having guns on the street. We still get gun crime, but on a comparison to other countries it is low BECAUSE we dont allow many people to legally carry them. Also, see my previous post, you might find you learn something before posting FUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 They are pretty much banned IMO because you have to jump through lots of hoops just to get one.They'll completely ban shotguns and .22's shortly wait and see :p and wait and see if it stops people :p it wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 If it's human nature to fantasise about killing somebody, the surely it's human nature to actually kill them? (I know you didn't suggest it wasn't, but I'm just clarifying with you). I'm not sure whether it is human nature - maybe with some humans it is, but I still stand by my opinion that it is sickening and if somebody fantasises about killing anybody (especially killing them inhumanely), I don't see how that person can be a nice person at all. Well you could say it is human nature to kil another person, yes. The stronger person would do so, however, evolution means we no longer do that other than rare circumstances. However, the thoughts are still there for pretty much the whole human population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 If it's human nature to fantasise about killing somebody, the surely it's human nature to actually kill them? (I know you didn't suggest it wasn't, but I'm just clarifying with you). I'm not sure whether it is human nature - maybe with some humans it is, but I still stand by my opinion that it is sickening and if somebody fantasises about killing anybody (especially killing them inhumanely), I don't see how that person can be a nice person at all. There is loads of people I have imagined killing, but I would never act it out, its almost a method of revenge without the action The difference between normal people and killers is that line between thinking about it, and doing it - I agree there some people who would never think of harming a fly, but imo those people, and Im guessing including yourself, have never been well and trully f*ked over by someone to the point where you lose the plot ----- UPDATE, police cars just went sirens blasting really fast over the bridge in rothbury as if responding to and emergency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted July 6, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 6, 2010 [...] You obviously have not had someone take your girl and life away from you yet then - but you are thinking of killing someone mearely for assault I haven't had somebody take my girl or life away from me, no, but what I do know is that if that ever happens, I would not kill another human being. Killing them would not bring my girl or life back. Killing them is just evil and lowers oneself to their standard (if it was an individual who purposely took my life away from me). Yes, I am thinking of putting down people for assault, humanely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 They are pretty much banned IMO because you have to jump through lots of hoops just to get one.They'll completely ban shotguns and .22's shortly wait and see :p and wait and see if it stops people :p it wont. No they wont ban those completely. They are needed by people to keep pests under control in more grassy parts of the country i believe, or at least some forms of gun are required. Regardless, guns will still be available on the street weather they are banned or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenom II Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I haven't had somebody take my girl or life away from me, no, but what I do know is that if that ever happens, I would not kill another human being. Killing them would not bring my girl or life back. Killing them is just evil and lowers oneself to their standard (if it was an individual who purposely took my life away from me). Yes, I am thinking of putting down people for assault, humanely. No not killing them, but sure as hell you will sit and wish bad things on them. I think that is a mad theory, assault, while being a bad thing is not lethal, there are many reason for assault, putting someone to death because they hit someone is WAY over the top you would wipe out 75% of the earth population ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthdci Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I disagree. The fact he has carried this whole thing out implies that he was incorrectly sent to prision instead of a phyciatric unit. He obviously has mental health issues. I agree with this, the court would not have known he had mental issues so doing community work whilst seeing a probation officer would be able to flag this up and the offender would then get mental help or taken to an institute, whatever is required. Lastly, how can you blame the Tories? I believe he would have been sent to prision before they came to power... im blaming the torys for cutting job in the probation sector, meaning there are less people available to support offenders reintroduction to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Laidher Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 No they wont ban those completely. They are needed by people to keep pests under control in more grassy parts of the country i believe, or at least some forms of gun are required. Regardless, guns will still be available on the street weather they are banned or not. I know, but im pretending to be those idiots that want guns banned :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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