Intrested in your opinions

[E_Chaos]

As an Israeli citizen, I just wanted to know how do you feel about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict in the Middle East.

You also might want to read this and comment:

The Case for Israel

[mikey1001]

As an Israeli citizen, I just wanted to know how do you feel about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict in the Middle East.

You also might want to read this and comment:

The Case for Israel

Well, obviously the whole situation is horrible given the amount of human suffering on both sides of the conflict.

I'm not 100% sure on how I feel really. I'll get harsh reactions for saying this but I can't help but feel for the plight of the Palestinians. A year ago I took it upon myself to read the history of that region and was utterly shocked to learn how Israel came to be a State in the first place. They used there own terrorist acts up to and including 1948 at which point they seized land from the local people and displaced millions of Arabs. There has been no reparation for these people or their families in the 55 years since, so when you see Palestinians blowing themselves up and you know the history behind it, you can at least understand where that immense frustration is coming from.

At this point in time the sad reality is that both states must exist, regardless of the terrorism that was used to get the land half a century ago. Concessions must be made of both physical land and huge sums of money and treaties must be signed to begin to bury the past and start working for the future.

I would be very curious to read a reply from someone who lives in the region, or at least has family or other interests there. If you disagree with me, that's fine, just be mature and reasonable in your reply, and I'll promise that in return. Thanks.

[TheElite]

Well, obviously the whole situation is horrible given the amount of human suffering on both sides of the conflict.

What? :huh: Horrible suffering on both sides? :no:

Like 1 israeli gets killed every couple of weeks, but about 10 palestinians get killed every day! :angry:

[....]

What? :huh: Horrible suffering on both sides? :no:

Like 1 israeli gets killed every couple of weeks, but about 10 palestinians get killed every day! :angry:

Does it even matter? Are you keeping score?

Murder is wrong on both sides.

It's an area, where there will always be civil unrest.

[E_Chaos]

They used there own terrorist acts up to and including 1948 at which point they seized land from the local people and displaced millions of Arabs.

The historical "facts" you wrote are not accurate.

I don't have the time right now, but I will reply as soon as I can.

In the meantime, you really should visit the link ?

The Case for Israel

[TheElite]

What? :huh:? Horrible suffering on both sides??:no:o:

Like 1 israeli gets killed every couple of weeks, but about 10 palestinians get killed every day!:angry:ry:

Does it even matter? Are you keeping score?

Murder is wrong on both sides.

It's an area, where there will always be civil unrest.

Then why dont you tell dumbass Bush to do anything. He could go to war for a motive that werent even true but cant even stop this when it is happening for real:angry:y:

[CloudEngineer]

The Israeli Army kills palestinian civilians.

Thats what ****es me off.

Also don't post biased opinions..

Edited July 28, 2003 by DJ^TuRKiYe

[username]

i think the jews need to give back some land, but then again, i think the palestinians will fight the jews till they have all the land... i dont know

[CloudEngineer]

i think the jews need to give back some land, but then again, i think the palestinians will fight the jews till they have all the land... i dont know

If someone moved and built there house on your propert would you be ****ed off?

If someone then bombed your house and called you a suspected terrorist would you be ****ed off?

I would be...

[username]

well the jews did fight and win the land fair in square

as for the bombing, its just a side effect of retaliation for suicide attacks

[CloudEngineer]

well the jews did fight and win the land fair in square

as for the bombing, its just a side effect of retaliation for suicide attacks

Thats complete rubbish.

If we go by your logic Al Queda Now owns the WTC Site. They did cause those to buildings to fall therefore they now own that land :rolleyes:

And that would be right. Terrorists go and do these suicide attacks and Israel blames the entire palestinian nation.

Everytime Israel bombs it''s "Terrorist" targets they kill civilians.

These people are throwing sticks and stones at the tanks. And the Israeli Military are firing to kill.

[spacey]

i'll admit i'm very ignorant to the history and reasons for the conflicts, but whatever it is... i don't think it is worth it. i don't think ppl are just born with this hatred of one another, but its the society they live in, they're teaching their children and next-generations to perpetuate this violence.

share land, live peacefully, no matter what country they're from, they're still fellow humans.

[azcodemonkey]

Creating the state of Israel was a mistake that cannot be taken back. Israel illegally settling occupied land can and should be rectified.

[E_Chaos]

You obviously don't have an idea what you are talking about?

Just to clarify some facts:

Israel was to be established with a Palestinian state alongside it (The UN decision in 1947 ? one nation to Jews and one to the Arabs). This was decision was never accepted by Arabs, who wanted more then 50% of the land (although this suited their general population).

The Arab states declared war against Israel, and LOST.

In 1967, they tried again, and LOST ? Israel captured the now-on-debate territories.

You see, it's our land by international law, and we are willing to sacrifice some of it in-order to keep the peace, but for that to happen they must acknowledge Israel's basic right to exist.

[noir]

You see, it's our land by international law, and we are willing to sacrifice some of it in-order to keep the peace, but for that to happen they must acknowledge Israel's basic right to exist.

What about the Palestinians basic right to exist? Building a wall to lock them out and pretend they don't exist doesn't solve anything.

[azcodemonkey]

You see, it's our land by international law, and we are willing to sacrifice some of it in-order to keep the peace, but for that to happen they must acknowledge Israel's basic right to exist.

You need to read the Geneva convention. Occupied territories are NOT to be settled by the occupying nation's civilians. You guys signed on to it. Follow it.

[mikey1001]

The historical "facts" you wrote are not accurate.

I don't have the time right now, but I will reply as soon as I can.

In the meantime, you really should visit the link ?

The Case for Israel

The "facts" that I put forward are of course somewhat paraphrased and lacking explanation. However, facts are facts. First of all, there are countless displaced Arabs that were forced from their homes and land:

"Much of the Palestinian Arab population in the territory that became Israel fled during the 1948-1949 war and became refugees in surrounding Arab countries. Still more Palestinians fled from the areas captured by Israel in 1967 (known collectively as the Occupied Territories; often referred to in Israel as ?administered territories?), and thousands of Jews have settled in these areas."

Secondly, if we go back far enough, a lot of this can be appropriately blamed on the British and their wonderful idea of Colonialism. They were the ones that took ownership of the Palestinian population in the early 20th century. Then right after the end of WW2, seeing the rise of the Zionist insurgence into the area where "Jews clashed with the Palestinian Arab inhabitants of the region", the recommendation was made to split the area into two seperate States. The Zionist accepted but the local Arabs did not. Now, 55 years later, we still see bitter hatred and fighting, or "terrorism", because of this. These are the facts.

So you can see why there are "radical" groups that refuse to accept the existence of an Israeli State. The question is, should they forget about the past and accept that the land is lost and so are hundreds of thousands of families that used to live there, and then try and work out a reparation deal based on that? Or, take the more violent approach of the "radicals" and fight the existence of the State of Israel altogether? Well, if everyone in that region wants a decent life for their children in the future, then the former idea is the one that must be accepted. Is it fair, well, no, but the world is full of injustices and unfair places, as your article "The Case for Israel" points out. We must all think about the future and what we leave for our children. Do we leave them a life of opportunity and prosperity or a life of bitter hatred and violence? The answer should be obvious.

[Lighter]

I've never been to Israel or Palestine, never gotten a 1st hand glimpse of the daily strifes, so I can't responsibly comment on what goes on without being biased one way or another. However...

Much like the rest of the world, the continued anger and hatred is being taught to younger generations on both sides, ensuring that the war continues for generations to come. I don't see the conflict ever ceasing for as long as this continues.

When 5-year old children claim to hate a country or a people (or both) and vow to kill in defense when they get older, how do you responsibly deal with such an engrained perception? This circumstance is pretty much universal around the world, by no means limited to the Middle East.

[E_Chaos]

You see, it's our land by international law, and we are willing to sacrifice some of it in-order to keep the peace, but for that to happen they must acknowledge Israel's basic right to exist.

You need to read the Geneva convention. Occupied territories are NOT to be settled by the occupying nation's civilians. You guys signed on to it. Follow it.

I never said it is right to settle in these areas, and furthermore, I consider the people living there as criminals (and so does the Israeli law).

[Joel]

I consider Israel to be hypocritical regarding Palestine. The point of creating a Jewish state was to protect Jews from persecution and to provide a home for all Jews. Now, the Jews are ones taking people's homes.

After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947).  One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.

In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently  annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict.

In 1974, the General Assembly reaffirmed the  inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to  self-determination,  national independence and sovereignty, and to return. The following year, the General Assembly established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. The General Assembly  conferred on the PLO the status of observer in the Assembly and in other international conferences held under United Nations auspices. 

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

[azcodemonkey]

So I guess you weren't referring to me when you said, "You obviously don't have an idea what you are talking about?" Please quote to clarify to whom it is you are speaking.

If Israeli law says it's criminal to settle, why aren't the settlers removed? Also, why has it been in the past that the Israeli government bulldozes Palestinian settlements which have often made way for Israeli settlers? By the way, I can only comment on information gathered through a heavily biased media, and perusing the net. So, please, take the questions for what they are. They are not an accusation, but real inquisition. You live there, I don't.

The actions of the Israeli government seem, to me at least, contrary to what you have put forth.

[noir]

I never said it is right to settle in these areas, and furthermore, I consider the people living there as criminals (and so does the Israeli law).

So all the settlements on the West Bank and in Gaza are considered by the Israeli goverment, at least officialy, as illegal? Strange they haven't done anything about it.

[EzeWong]

No offenese,

But it is really refreshing to people "siding" wiht palestians. As an American I constantly see people siding with the isralei nation in terms of moral and righteous conflicts---> the "superior nation" neehh... . Even the news is geared so that palestians look like evil terrorists that commit hate crimes towards peace loving jews.

Its irritating. And to see many people here with the same contentions I have is very reassuring.

Personallly I beleive the land "Rightfully" belongs to the palenstians... Not that land ever belongs rightfully to anyone. Hell why dont we turn arizona or some other US terroritory into Israel? And to argue that its their "rightful" land is obnoxious. The muslims have everyright to the land as do the Jews.

[E_Chaos]

The settlements are indeed illegal and are also referred as such by the Israeli media and government. They didn't get permission to settle in these areas, and they are not evacuated only because the government fears the consequence in term of public opinion (so I believe?).

By the way, those "settlers" are ALL very religious people (I don't know the term in English, but here they are called "Haredim") who believe that their duty is to populate their "Ancestor land" by any mean ? many are those who condemn them (and unfortunately, there are those who join and encourage them).

So as you can see, there is also a social problem in Israel that prevents the evacuation of these areas?

[poind]

(1) No more violence. Period.

(2) Anyone who does it stop teaching children to irrationally hate others for all sorts of completely conjured stuff. There are enough fact-based problems as it is, and outright making things up only makes it worse and more confusing.

(3) There are a number of humans in a region who can have whatever label you want slapped on them for whatever reason. As humans, they need to find "higher", universally-shared values so they can all get along and have methods to work out differences. Perhaps a super over-simplification, but still.... At some point this just needs to stop with people realizing they'll be better off in the long-run if they stop bickering over short-term whatever things now and get constructive and cooperative. It has to happen all at once, unfortunately.

I'll go on a limb here, but can anyone tell me why the U.N. has not been able to find a solution for this for quite some time now? It would *seem* if an objective, independent party can come in and set up a relatively fair method to find a resolution, this could be solved. What *are* people arguing about? Religious sites and who controls them? Specific tracts of land that are more valuable? What? What has to change *so* severely, practically speaking, on either side it's worth all the violence? What is each side's list of demands/wants, or does it keep changing? How many "sides" are there really? :dontgetit: