Mac OS X Lion Discussion

[.Neo]

Yeah, while they?re at playing with ZFS and TRIM support, maybe they should do a major UI/GUI overhaul with this app. It?s starting to be urgent.

ZFS has been abandoned by Apple years ago. TRIM support doesn't have much to do with Disk Utility.

[PyX]

ZFS has been abandoned by Apple years ago. TRIM support doesn't have much to do with Disk Utility.

I thought they retried implementing ZFS in the new Lion. And don?t they need to add references to TRIM in Disk Utility? While opening this battlefield in Xcode, better keep it updated !

[.Neo]

I thought they retried implementing ZFS in the new Lion. And don?t they need to add references to TRIM in Disk Utility? While opening this battlefield in Xcode, better keep it updated !

No? They abandoned ZFS during the development of Mac OS X Snow Leopard due to licensing issues, if not earlier. Did you find any references to TRIM in Disk Utility? And even so things like that won't mean they'll redesign the entire interface.

Agreed Disk Utility could use a bit of a overhaul though.

[giga Veteran]

Didn't notice till now, but they changed the four finger gesture on the trackpad. Four finger up is mission control and four finger down is "application windows" expose. Guess it makes sense since mission control groups windows for a specific app together now which would make it cumbersome to find a specific window if you have many of the same type open.

Additionally, application specific expose shows recently used files for that app on the bottom where minimized windows were are traditionally shown. I'd show some screenshots but I'm on the HD 3000 which has a known issue with black screenshots in DP2. The driver for the HD 3000 itself seems to be pretty buggy as I'm experiencing several graphical errors throughout.

[.Neo]

Additionally, application specific expose shows recently used files for that app on the bottom where minimized windows were are traditionally shown.

I noticed that in DP1. I'm finding it kinda annoying.

I don't get the new "saving" of applications works when quitting them at all. Unlike on iOS Safari for example doesn't restore to the webpage I was viewing last and all the tabs I had open before quitting it. Quitting most, if not all, applications on Mac OS X Lion doesn't feel any different from Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther etc.

[PyX]

I noticed that in DP1. I'm finding it kinda annoying.

I don't get the new "saving" of applications works when quitting them at all. Unlike on iOS Safari for example doesn't restore to the webpage I was viewing last and all the tabs I had open before quitting it. Quitting most, if not all, applications on Mac OS X Lion doesn't feel any different from Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther etc.

Same thoughts here. I believe this feature is still in the works, because it?s pretty half-assed-ly incorporated right now.

At least shutting down the computer and starting it up to continue your work where you left it is rather impressive.

[giga Veteran]

I noticed that in DP1. I'm finding it kinda annoying.

I don't get the new "saving" of applications works when quitting them at all. Unlike on iOS Safari for example doesn't restore to the webpage I was viewing last and all the tabs I had open before quitting it. Quitting most, if not all, applications on Mac OS X Lion doesn't feel any different from Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther etc.

The auto saving only works in document based applications where there's a document that hasn't been saved. For example, open a file in Preview, Textedit, or Quicktime and make some changes to it. You can quit the app and then restart it and it'll load up the file just as you left it.

Edit: Preview actually doesn't reopen it. It just saves it automatically.

[.Neo]

That's not what I meant, you're talking about auto-save of documents right? Apple removed the running applications indicators form the Dock by default because applications on Mac OS X Lion would behave the same way as apps in iOS: They wouldn't quit like in previous Mac OS X version but rather stay in a suspended mode.

I don't see much of that back in Mac OS X Lion. Quitting applications is exactly the same as it is on Snow Leopard (as far as I can tell) and doesn't resemble iOS at all. Like I said when I quit Safari on my iPad (by hitting the stop sign) all tabs are restored when I relaunch it for example. That doesn't happen on Lion. As such I don't understand why Apple disabled the running application indicators from the Dock.

Right now I just don't get it.

[giga Veteran]

That's not what I meant, you're talking about auto-save of documents right? Apple removed the running applications indicators form the Dock by default because applications on Mac OS X Lion would behave the same way as apps in iOS: They wouldn't quit like in previous Mac OS X version but rather stay in a suspended mode.

I don't see much of that back in Mac OS X Lion. Quitting applications is exactly the same as it is on Snow Leopard (as far as I can tell) and doesn't resemble iOS at all. Like I said when I quit Safari on my iPad (by hitting the stop sign) all tabs are restored when I relaunch it for example. That doesn't happen on Lion. As such I don't understand why Apple disabled the running application indicators from the Dock.

Right now I just don't get it.

Oh you're talking about Resume. That I'm not sure about. Maybe it hasn't been fully implemented yet? I'm sure Safari 6 will be shown at WWDC.

[.Neo]

Oh you're talking about Resume. That I'm not sure about. Maybe it hasn't been fully implemented yet? I'm sure Safari 6 will be shown at WWDC.

What has Safari 6 to do with this? Resume is supposed to be a system-wide feature just like on iOS involving every application. However I don't see any resuming currently. First thing I do is enable the running application indicators otherwise I get completely lost since nothing has changed from Snow Leopard ~ Cheetah.

Could be it hasn't been implemented yet, but that seems really weird considering it's a pretty major thing Apple would want to see tested right? :/

[iuerg87yerg879e0rg9erugjer]

That's not what I meant, you're talking about auto-save of documents right? Apple removed the running applications indicators form the Dock by default because applications on Mac OS X Lion would behave the same way as apps in iOS

Apple has not removed them, there is an option in the dock preference plane in which you can turn on the indicators.

[.Neo]

Apple has not removed them, there is an option in the dock preference plane in which you can turn on the indicators.

Really?!

Apple removed the running applications indicators form the Dock by default (...)

First thing I do is enable the running application indicators otherwise I get completely lost since nothing has changed from Snow Leopard ~ Cheetah.

[giga Veteran]

What has Safari 6 to do with this? Resume is supposed to be a system-wide feature just like on iOS involving every application. However I don't see any resuming currently. First thing I do is enable the running application indicators otherwise I get completely lost since nothing has changed from Snow Leopard ~ Cheetah.

Could be it hasn't been implemented yet, but that seems really weird considering it's a pretty major thing Apple would want to see tested right? :/

Nah, pretty sure it requires application developers to enable support. I don't think many would be happy if the system automatically cleared out an open Final Cut project that was in the background.

[.Neo]

Nah, pretty sure it requires application developers to enable support. I don't think many would be happy if the system automatically cleared out an open Final Cut project that was in the background.

See I'm doubting that, because everything does resume properly when shutting the entire computer down and starting it up again: You can leave all applications open, hit restart and your entire desktop gets restored exactly the way you left it. As if you wake your Mac from sleep. The same thing just doesn't happen when quitting an individual app, which is odd. If resuming worked on a per-app basis as well, disabling the running app indicators in the Dock would actually make sense.

I don't understand the purpose of the Launchpad icons shaking when pressing and holding them either. You can move them around while they're not shaking as well. :s Launchpad has to be one of the most unfinished parts of Mac OS X Lion (hopefully :laugh: )

[giga Veteran]

See I'm doubting that, because everything does resume properly when shutting the entire computer down and starting it up again: You can leave all applications open, hit restart and your entire desktop gets restored exactly the way you left it. As if you wake your Mac from sleep. The same thing just doesn't happen when quitting an individual app, which is odd. If resuming worked on a per-app basis as well, disabling the running app indicators in the Dock would actually make sense.

iOS 4 required developers to support resuming (fast app switching). Apple states the same for Lion. See the asterisk: http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

*Available with apps that have been developed to work with Lion.

[Stetson]

See I'm doubting that, because everything does resume properly when shutting the entire computer down and starting it up again: You can leave all applications open, hit restart and your entire desktop gets restored exactly the way you left it. As if you wake your Mac from sleep. The same thing just doesn't happen when quitting an individual app, which is odd. If resuming worked on a per-app basis as well, disabling the running app indicators in the Dock would actually make sense.

Pretty sure it requires developer support. It does on iOS.

I haven't played with Lion personally, but even Snow Leopard can resume to where you left off from a full shutdown in certain cases (like when the battery goes completely dead). In that case it isn't the apps doing it, but rather all system memory being dumped to disk before shutdown and restored when you come back.

Is this what you're seeing in Lion? Or do applications resume state during a normal restart as well?

[.Neo]

Or do applications resume state during a normal restart as well?

Everything running is being restored exactly the way you left it after you do a normal restart.

So as an example: I have Safari open with 5 tabs and 5 different websites, Mail with a half composed message, System Preferences open. Then I go to the Apple Menu > Hit "Restart" > After logging in again I see Safari popping open again with those exact same 5 websites, Mail pops open again with my half composed message intact and System Preferences opens to the preference pane I had active.

iOS 4 required developers to support resuming (fast app switching). Apple states the same for Lion. See the asterisk: http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

Ah okay, well in that case I'll be enabling the running app indicators for a while. Keeping them disabled serves no purpose now, except to confuse the hell out of you. :laugh:

[mattmatik]

Pretty sure it requires developer support. It does on iOS.

I haven't played with Lion personally, but even Snow Leopard can resume to where you left off from a full shutdown in certain cases (like when the battery goes completely dead). In that case it isn't the apps doing it, but rather all system memory being dumped to disk before shutdown and restored when you come back.

Is this what you're seeing in Lion? Or do applications resume state during a normal restart as well?

That has been there for a while now (at least since Leopard, probably earlier than that). I think it's referred to as safe sleep or something like that.

[Quillz]

As such I don't understand why Apple disabled the running application indicators from the Dock.

I've been wondering this, too, and the only thing I can think of is that Apple doesn't want the user to even have to think about what's running and what isn't. I think the idea is you put your most recently used applications onto the Dock and just click them. And with the new auto-save and Resume, they'll either start up for the first time or be restored to right where you left them. Thus, it's a bit abstract as to what is truly running and what isn't, so this is why they don't show.

That's just how I think of it, although I do re-enable the running indicators myself.

[.Neo]

Except currently you do need to worry about opening and quitting applications as most Mac OS X Lion applications won't restore automatically like they should. So unless that changes... I know this is a beta and all, but still I expected this to at least work for the default apps. iTunes being the exception of course. :p

That has been there for a while now (at least since Leopard, probably earlier than that). I think it's referred to as safe sleep or something like that.

What I described above is new to Mac OS X Lion. You're referring to hibernation on MacBooks.

[giga Veteran]

Not sure if this was here before: three finger double tap to bring up the dictionary panel.

[.Neo]

Just found out you can blur the background behind Terminal windows. (Y)

[Quillz]

Not sure if this was here before: three finger double tap to bring up the dictionary panel.

I think that is new, and it's more reason for my to ditch the Magic Mouse for the Magic Trackpad.

[PyX]

I think that is new, and it's more reason for my to ditch the Magic Mouse for the Magic Trackpad.

As good as the Apple trackpads are, nothing will make me switch from my mouse to something else. Laptops = Trackpads, Desktops = Mouse.

[Stetson]

As good as the Apple trackpads are, nothing will make me switch from my mouse to something else. Laptops = Trackpads, Desktops = Mouse.

I think that they should integrate a gesture pad into their keyboards, in addition to your normal mouse. Scrolling and doing things like expose gestures are great on a trackpad, and trackpads are nice for casual use, but they can be extremely frustrating in situations where quick accurate pointing is important.

The magic trackpad is cool, but it isn't really a mouse replacement.