Opera 11 is better than the latest Chrome and Firefox Nightlies

[mmmmbacon]

I have used Opera for the past few years but have switched to Chrome about a month ago. The reason I switched was mainly because of the speed. When trying to open Opera with about 10 tabs saved in a session took around 5 seconds with Chrome its instant.

Things I like about Opera

Smooth scrolling

Saved passwords (wand)

Zooming in and out of webpages is the best out of all the browsers (27" monitor need to zoom around 150%)

Things I dislike about Opera

Had massive problems with flash content

Some websites do not load correctly (e.g. YouTube not loading correctly and trouble playing videos from user channels was the deciding factor to move to Chrome)

Things I like about Chrome

Speed

Simplicity/minimalistic

Flash content and every website loads correctly

Things I dislike about Chrome

Password manager sometimes doesn't save passwords even when I ask it too

Zooming in and out is no where near Opera territory

When I have many tabs open and then close one it takes quite some time for Chrome to adjust (opera its instant)

Scrolling not as good as Opera

Not being able to use 'w Gothic Architecture' to search Wikipedia for example

Needed an extension for speedial

Needed and extension for 'control Z' (undo tabs)

They are both great browsers, miles ahead of the competition but I will continue to use Chrome even though it has some downfalls. At the rate that Google is pumping out versions I'm sure these problems and the other issues that you guys have stated will be fixed in the near future. I will gladly switch back to Opera if they come out with great new features.

Can anyone enlighten me to what the hell is going on here? I have about 5 tabs open and chrome always has 10 + processes running.

[bjoswald]

That's something I hate about Chrome too; you open a new tab and it has to open a whole new process (like it's a new window). It's ridiculous.

[AltecXP]

I an tell you for a fact that many big business websites are only tested in IE6-8, Firefox 2-3, Safari and Chrome. I work for one of the worlds biggest holding companies, and we dont test in Opera. Not because it's banned by IT, but because no one uses it so it's not worth testing in.

Sometimes I wonder how much of its "install base" is just the fact that Adobe Creative Suit includes it. Its even hidden in one of the .apps on the OSX version. That speaks a lot of a company, they have to sneak the software into your system to get you to use it.

That's something I hate about Chrome too; you open a new tab and it has to open a whole new process (like it's a new window). It's ridiculous.

So you want 1 website crashing taking out your whole browser? The point of that is that if flash, or a websites poor code crashes Chrome the other 15 tabs you may have open aren't lost.

[Jebadiah]

Google don't steal any data, they just monitor your usage habits. The tinfoil hat brigade seems to love these kind of threads.

Google doesn't have to steal anything. People just give it to them by using their products. (Same with Facebook.)

The reason people say "Google is stealing data" is because they are basically exploiting human weaknesses for their gain, which is the same as what any intelligent profit-making ad company does. Storing peoples's data without telling them, in an obvious fashion, the risks of having their data stored on Google servers and not giving them any control on that data, in a deeper sense, is considered stealing.

If anyone hasn't realized this so far, Facebook is an ad company. Hence, their valuation is >$40 billion.

[Atrokious]

I have to say I agree and when I try to tell people exactly what you're saying they call me a "Opera fanboy". Opera has passed Chrome a few times in terms of speed, kinda putting Chrome to the back bench.

Opera is a great browser, it just doesn't have the advertising platform to jump from like every other of the four main browsers does. It's actually quite amazing that people use a web browser MADE by a advertising company that is WELL KNOWN for stealing your data. Yes, I'm talking about Chrome.

When you say 'speed', you do we're talking absoulute miliseconds don't you? Meaning the difference in speed becomes irrelevent, no matter who's faster.

Okay if Opera's such a 'great' browser, then why does its market share constantly rise and drop from month to month?

To suggest Google steals data is absoultely untrue and obsurd, especially coming from someone responsible for posting unbias front-page content.

We recently heard in the news about how Google 'stole' public WiFi information and passwords, okay. However they did rectify the problem and purged all information that was obtained. Even so I don't see how this would relate to any of their other products, plus they didn't intentionally mean to do it.

To be honest I think that Opera is a decent browser, but the people who use it make me want to steer well away from it.

[Jebadiah]

We recently heard in the news about how Google 'stole' public WiFi information and passwords, okay. However they did rectify the problem and purged all information that was obtained. Even so I don't see how this would relate to any of their other products, plus they didn't intentionally mean to do it.

We'll never know now would we? Or did you personally check that every bit of all copies of the data was incinerated? I presume "No".

LOL @ "... didn't intentionally mean to do it." You're funny.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

There is no 'best' web browser per se. Which one is best is subjective and up to the user to decide. I'm using Chrome most of the time because it's fast and stays out of the way - its minimalism is a feature in my book.

Funny how none of you has mentioned Internet Explorer 9 yet. Having used the beta I must say I quite like it - just like Chrome it's fast and stays out of the way, it profits from being tailored for one platform only - its integration into Windows 7 is second to none. Come the final I could very well imagine using it as my primary browser.

[polyarchist]

There is no 'best' web browser per se. Which one is best is subjective and up to the user to decide. I'm using Chrome most of the time because it's fast and stays out of the way - its minimalism is a feature in my book.

Funny how none of you has mentioned Internet Explorer 9 yet. Having used the beta I must say I quite like it - just like Chrome it's fast and stays out of the way, it profits from being tailored for one platform only - its integration into Windows 7 is second to none. Come the final I could very well imagine using it as my primary browser.

Unless IE9 gets extension support, I don't see anybody here except you and a few others using it as a primary browser. Speed is worthless to the power user unless you have the extensibility to go with it. Google knew that and added extensions in record time. Opera is doing it before they lose their marketshare completely to Chrome, which is sapping away Firefox's marketshare.

[brentaal]

You're forgetting that AdBlock is the most popular extension. AdBlock functionality will be available OOTB in IE9.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Unless IE9 gets extension support, I don't see anybody here except you and a few others using it as a primary browser. Speed is worthless to the power user unless you have the extensibility to go with it. Google knew that and added extensions in record time. Opera is doing it before they lose their marketshare completely to Chrome, which is sapping away Firefox's marketshare.

IE add-ons gallery

There are add-ons for IE. That being said, I've never used many extensions/add-ons with any browser. An ad-blocker (with Neowin whitelisted of course), sure. But other than that? A browser for me is just that - a tool to browse the web. Most extensions are imho useless fluff. YMMV of course.

[Mr. Gibs]

You're forgetting that AdBlock is the most popular extension. AdBlock functionality will be available OOTB in IE9.

Adblock has been supported OOTB since like IE7 :/ You just had to get a filter list for it.

[XP1]

Sometimes I wonder how much of its "install base" is just the fact that Adobe Creative Suit includes it. Its even hidden in one of the .apps on the OSX version. That speaks a lot of a company, they have to sneak the software into your system to get you to use it.

What company are you talking about? What makes you so sure that Adobe chose Opera because Adobe wants "to get you to use it [Opera]" but not for some other reason? What, specifically, do you mean by "speaks a lot"?

http://www.opera.com...ses/2003/09/30/

"Adobe realizes and embraces this crucial design requirement ..."

"We are very happy that Adobe has chosen Opera's rendering engine ..."

[polyarchist]

IE add-ons gallery

There are add-ons for IE. That being said, I've never used many extensions/add-ons with any browser. An ad-blocker (with Neowin whitelisted of course), sure. But other than that? A browser for me is just that - a tool to browse the web. Most extensions are imho useless fluff. YMMV of course.

Can you really call any of those actual "extensions"? They're more like the Chrome web apps that are nothing more than a link. A real extension checks your email, blocks ads while updating itself, converts text into links, or put a chat client in the browser. I'm glad Opera went the Chrome way and started a real addon system.

[XP1]

When you say 'speed', you do we're talking absoulute miliseconds don't you? Meaning the difference in speed becomes irrelevent, no matter who's faster.

Speed becomes relevant when the seconds add up.

For example, if a browser opens 120 tabs and then renders another webpage, the number of tabs open will surely affect the amount of time the next webpage is rendered because of, for instance, the limitation of system resources.

For example, if the browser takes 1 millisecond to render a piece of code ("irrelevant") but when a large project requires the browser to render 2,000 pieces of that code, then the amount of rendering time will add up.

I'm sure there are billions of ways you can imagine where the amount of rendering time will add up.

Okay if Opera's such a 'great' browser, then why does its market share constantly rise and drop from month to month?

The large market share for an object is not necessarily a result of an increase in greatness of that object. Market share is not a direct, valid reason to explain why Opera is a great browser. In addition, the fluctuation of market share does not necessarily affect the greatness of an object, vice versa.

To be honest I think that Opera is a decent browser, but the people who use it make me want to steer well away from it.

Are you serious? If all murders use QiJian #4 pencils to draft a letter to MC Williams, then you should stay away from QiJian #4 pencils, unless you like murderers.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Can you really call any of those actual "extensions"? They're more like the Chrome web apps that are nothing more than a link. A real extension checks your email, blocks ads while updating itself, converts text into links, or put a chat client in the browser. I'm glad Opera went the Chrome way and started a real addon system.

Funny how many Opera users used to say 'Opera doesn't need extensions, everything you need is built-in!' prior to Opera 11...

As to the examples you mentioned: I - as many others - don't need a mail checker or an IRC client¹ built into the web browser. I prefer to use separate programs for separate purposes.

¹Did you know that Neowin has an IRC channel btw? You're free to log on to it and discuss your ideas there as well.

[Fourjays Veteran]

Needed an extension for speedial

You could just use "most visited" section of the "new tab page" in Chrome if you are OK with just 8. Just visit your favourite site and then open a new tab. It should appear there, then hit the pin icon and it will stay. Did this myself and it works great.

[polyarchist]

Funny how many Opera users used to say 'Opera doesn't need extensions, everything you need is built-in!' prior to Opera 11...

As to the examples you mentioned: I - as many others - don't need a mail checker or an IRC client¹ built into the web browser. I prefer to use separate programs for separate purposes.

¹Did you know that Neowin has an IRC channel btw? You're free to log on to it and discuss your ideas there as well.

The point is that it's nice to be able to add whatever you want to the browser while keeping the installation lean. Opera does this while still including an email/IRC client and it has 4X less to install than with Chrome, and now with full extension support, Opera can be more popular since extensions are pretty much what drives the browser market for what I'd say a healthy 1/3 of web users.

[XP1]

Funny how many Opera users used to say 'Opera doesn't need extensions, everything you need is built-in!' prior to Opera 11...

That is true. I was quite surprised when Opera announced that it is working on an extension system, despite years of "don't need extensions". I'm actually very happy.

As to the examples you mentioned: I - as many others - don't need a mail checker or an IRC client¹ built into the web browser. I prefer to use separate programs for separate purposes.

I prefer separate programs as well. For example, when the web browser crashes (ALL browsers crash), I will not lose access to my email client. Although I prefer separate programs, I am also delighted that the option to use an email client or IRC client is available. Sometimes, I use the IRC client to join for a quick chat in a help channel, when I don't have mIRC installed.

[tuckeratlarge]

I'd rather use IE6 than opera.

All browsers have their good and bad points, it's personal choice. I find people just get used to whatever they started using.

I remember in the old days I started with Netscape because it was on the second hand PC I was using. I liked it and never gave IE a second thought. However I upgraded from 95 to 98 and for a few days used IE which I thought was much better. Never bothered installing Netscape.

Then when Firefox 1 was gaining a bit of a reputation as being better than IE6 I gave it a go, through sheer laziness I have stuck with it. Yes, I have tried Chrome, IE8, IE9, Safari and Opera but they don't offer anything significant over and above Firefox.

Plus if the buttons or menu system are different, which they are, I always get frustrated and just return to Firefox.

I am not saying Firefox is a better browser, it probably isn't, but it's what I like. You are not wrong for using a different browser so please don't say I am for using Firefox.

[inferniac]

I think there's no denying that Firefox is dying (it rhymes! :) ), FF4 is taking forever to develop.

For me the best browsers out there atm are Chrome and Opera, IE9 will probably join them when it's released (which will still probably be sooner than FF4). Personally I use Opera, with Chrome installed as a secondary browser. It is sad that despite being a really good product Opera has such a small marketshare, but flaming about it is not helping. As Mephistopheles has pointed out - there's no best browser, there's just one that suits you best.

And yes speed matters, FF for me is too slow to be even considered (just fired it up to remember if it was really that slow - 5 second to start, with Chrome and Opera being instant on). Opera has similar performance to Chrome using less resources (people claminig that it uses much memory need to remember that it scales itself - if you have 4GB of RAM it will use around 400MB, but it doesn't really matter - does it?).

[Subject Delta]

Google doesn't have to steal anything. People just give it to them by using their products. (Same with Facebook.)

The reason people say "Google is stealing data" is because they are basically exploiting human weaknesses for their gain, which is the same as what any intelligent profit-making ad company does. Storing peoples's data without telling them, in an obvious fashion, the risks of having their data stored on Google servers and not giving them any control on that data, in a deeper sense, is considered stealing.

If anyone hasn't realized this so far, Facebook is an ad company. Hence, their valuation is >$40 billion.

They are guilty of nothing more than a lot of web based companies do, gathering usage data to tailor their products. All that they store is information about websites that you visit, the same information for the record that is stored by your ISP. I don't see people having psycho fits about the data their ISP stores. There is nothing inherently bad in what Google do, unless you have something to hide which most ordinary people do not.

There is no 'best' web browser per se. Which one is best is subjective and up to the user to decide. I'm using Chrome most of the time because it's fast and stays out of the way - its minimalism is a feature in my book.

Funny how none of you has mentioned Internet Explorer 9 yet. Having used the beta I must say I quite like it - just like Chrome it's fast and stays out of the way, it profits from being tailored for one platform only - its integration into Windows 7 is second to none. Come the final I could very well imagine using it as my primary browser.

I am not keen on IE9's font rendering, that is why I personally stay clear of it.

[Julius Caro]

I always liked Opera because it was FAST, until chrome came into the picture.

Haven't used opera for a while, but I have just installed this new beta. looks a lot like the firefox 4 beta, but faster. Not sure I'm digging the look.

Opera definitely needs a new icon.

[~Johnny]

Funny how many Opera users used to say 'Opera doesn't need extensions, everything you need is built-in!' prior to Opera 11...

As to the examples you mentioned: I - as many others - don't need a mail checker or an IRC client¹ built into the web browser. I prefer to use separate programs for separate purposes.

¹Did you know that Neowin has an IRC channel btw? You're free to log on to it and discuss your ideas there as well.

Well there's an very obvious reason for that isn't there? Anyone who actually cared for extensions went and used FireFox because they needed too, Opera wasn't a choice for them. For those people who didn't really see much value in extensions, they could choose between Opera and Firefox. Ergo, of course it's obvious that the opinion of many Opera users is that they don't need extensions! That's how the ended up using it in the first place (:

Still they're there if anyone wants to use them I guess... there's still nothing particularly useful for me though, I only have one installed and that's ImgTip :p

Many, many programs include functions that some people might not need or would prefer to use another program to do. But there are also those who appreciate having it built in. Although I don't bother with Opera Mail myself, I do always use it's IRC client. It saves a lot of hassle to have something that just works, right there in the box.

[Guest]

Well, this whole thread is blatant flamebait, but what the hey. Just a few days ago I went and installed all the nightlies of Opera 11, Chromium, and Firefox 4. (I went with Chromium as I don't need the inane "update services" and all that other Google crap running in the background.)

Chromium, at least on my rig, handled javascript exceedingly quick, but the rest of the browser not so much. Wasn't slow, but it certainly wasn't impressive either.. not sure if it was a configuration error, but out of the box it as pretty underwhelming. Wasn't terribly impressed with the memory usage as well.. a few times it flew past FF4's usage. The one thing that struck me interesting was it's 'app store'. Novel idea, but my desktop runs desktop apps, and if I wanted an 'app store', I'd buy an Android or iPad.

Opera was pretty much identical in performance.. fast under the hood, but the browser itself was a "meh" at best. The few extensions that I tried failed miserably (at best buggy, at worst didn't run at all or even crashed the browser), but granted that's a "new" concept for Opera and it is a nightly, so to be expected I guess.. hopefully they get it worked out. As it stands currently though, borderline useless. Other than that, it's the same super-inflexible Opera that I've grown to dislike.

FF4 (Minefield nightly, not B7) on the other hand was almost as fast as Chromium in the JS department, but the browser itself was very fast.. just for a test IE's Fishtank demo for example, FF4 was the only one that I got a framerate that capped at my display's refresh speed, the other browsers weren't even close. Same with Futuremark's browser benchmark, overall I had better results with FF4. Regular browsing was near instant, no waiting. Plus FF4 still has by far the most and best extendability of any browser, period. I have still yet to find another browser with an AdBlock/NoScript type setup that actually comes even close to being as good.. they all have knockoffs, but they all fail to impress.

If pure JS speed is all that matters for you, then by all means go with Opera or Chrome. Me though, I prefer my browser to be a bit more flexible. Does it really matter what I think? Not in the least, nor do I care in the slightest what anyone else thinks. Find the one you like and stick with it, pat yourself on the back for making a decision. No need to start these inane threads though.

Flame on.

I agree! Flame on

P.S. I believe when Fx4 reaches final it will be the best overall browser. IMO it has the best GUI, features (although Opera is very good), extensions and the javascript performance will be as good as the others. But for me, it's more than just speed. I also see IE9 being a good browser as well. Anyway, my problem with Chrome is it lacks features and ugly GUI. And i think it's spyware :o

[Guest]

There is no 'best' web browser per se. Which one is best is subjective and up to the user to decide. I'm using Chrome most of the time because it's fast and stays out of the way - its minimalism is a feature in my book.

Funny how none of you has mentioned Internet Explorer 9 yet. Having used the beta I must say I quite like it - just like Chrome it's fast and stays out of the way, it profits from being tailored for one platform only - its integration into Windows 7 is second to none. Come the final I could very well imagine using it as my primary browser.

Very True. IE9 seams like a browser worthwhile.