official F1 World Championship 2011 Thread

[tomjol]

Laughable. He had the move done, and Massa turned in on him, something Massa is prone to doing when being passed. I thought the stewards were over the top here, however I am pleased to see another penalty for the Maldonado incident is unlikely

What a load of twaddle. The thing Massa is most prone to doing while being passed is jumping well out of the way.

[simonlang]

Such a lame ending. Ferrari & Alonso had the perfect strategy and it was a Senna-Mansell-esque fight to the chequered flag if not for the amateurs that belong in GP2. Drop Hamilton back there for a couple of races too, he fits in nice with the crashfest.

pile of crap. :x

[what]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91858

Lewis got a post-race 20 second penalty, but as I guessed, because the car behind him was a lap down, he didn't lose any places.

[mps69]

Laughable. He had the move done, and Massa turned in on him, something Massa is prone to doing when being passed. I thought the stewards were over the top here, however I am pleased to see another penalty for the Maldonado incident is unlikely

He tried the same pass as Paul Di Resta, and he got got a drive thro' why don't you think Hamilton should have been punished. I doubt Massa was expecting Hamilton to pass there, hence why he might have turned in.

As for the Maldonado "pass", that was just plain bad driving. He could have caught him coming out of the tunnel, and left everyone on track.

[.mcman]

He tried the same pass as Paul Di Resta, and he got got a drive thro' why don't you think Hamilton should have been punished. I doubt Massa was expecting Hamilton to pass there, hence why he might have turned in.

Look at the line Felipe took, if Lewis wasn't inside that corner Massa would've taken Webber out (which he almost did despite that btw). It was Massa's intention to crash into Lewis in my view.

[Subject Delta]

He tried the same pass as Paul Di Resta, and he got got a drive thro' why don't you think Hamilton should have been punished. I doubt Massa was expecting Hamilton to pass there, hence why he might have turned in.

As for the Maldonado "pass", that was just plain bad driving. He could have caught him coming out of the tunnel, and left everyone on track.

I don't think Di Resta should have been penalised either, he came off worse in that incident. If you penalise drivers for doing what Lewis and Paul did, they will be to nervous of penalty to try risky overtakes in the future, and for me that's not a route Formula 1 should be heading down.

This is a shot taken as Massa started to turn into the corner, the angle of his car clearly suggests that he was trying to squeeze Lewis to the apex of the corner and run him off the track

And this is taken from the point that he hit webber. He was focused so much on Lewis he didn't even see webber.

There's no way that he didn't see Lewis coming.

[vanx]

Since Massa is ahead, it's up to him what line he takes around a corner. He doesn't have to get out of the way. Lewis tried to pass him on the inside in probably the tightest corner of any F1 circuit. If Massa didn't jerk to the right into Webber, him and Hamilton would have touched for sure.

[Subject Delta]

Since Massa is ahead, it's up to him what line he takes around a corner. He doesn't have to get out of the way. Lewis tried to pass him on the inside in probably the tightest corner of any F1 circuit. If Massa didn't jerk to the right into Webber, him and Hamilton would have touched for sure.

Racing etiquette dictates that if someone's making a pass on you, and they're far enough alongside to be visible then you should not try to squeeze them off the track. It's way above defending your position when you actively try and run your competitor off the track, and that's why Schumacher was punished at Hungary last year.

[forlorn]

Hamilton was not making a pass, Hamilton was risking it all in the hope that he'll scare off Massa and ruin his entrance into the corner.

[vanx]

Racing etiquette dictates that if someone's making a pass on you, and they're far enough alongside to be visible then you should not try to squeeze them off the track. It's way above defending your position when you actively try and run your competitor off the track, and that's why Schumacher was punished at Hungary last year.

Racing etiquette is one thing, rules are another. In situations where there is plenty of space available, I agree. In this corner, Massa was trying to turn it as was his right. Hamilton didn't pass him so he had no reason to expect Massa to get out of the way. He was coming in at a narrow angle, he should have known the risks.

[Subject Delta]

Racing etiquette is one thing, rules are another. In situations where there is plenty of space available, I agree. In this corner, Massa was trying to turn it as was his right. Hamilton didn't pass him so he had no reason to expect Massa to get out of the way. He was coming in at a narrow angle, he should have known the risks.

Sure, it was risky, but if a driver were to be punished every time they took a risk there would be practically no passing at all. It's a dick move by the FIA to punish it when you're trying to encourage more overtaking.

[vanx]

Sure, it was risky, but if a driver were to be punished every time they took a risk there would be practically no passing at all. It's a dick move by the FIA to punish it when you're trying to encourage more overtaking.

He wasn't penalised for just taking a risk. He was punished for a dangerous manoeuvre that led to an avoidable collision. Is that Monaco hairpin really the best place to overtake with traffic ahead of you?

[KiHu]

Pirelli: Ban red flag tyre changes

Pirelli has called for a change to the red flag rules in Formula 1 to prevent teams from changing tyres if a race is stopped - after feeling fans were robbed of a great finish to the Monaco Grand Prix.

The battle for victory in Monte Carlo was finely poised between Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button in the closing stages of the race, with all three running around on tyres that were at very different stages of their wear life.

But with their individual situations set to create a thrilling climax to the race, the battle came to a premature end when a late-race red flag, caused by Vitaly Petrov's accident, meant they were allowed to change rubber.

....

Source: Autosport

So.

F***ing

True.

[MightyJordan]

Too right. If they weren't allowed to change tyres yesterday, then maybe Alonso or Button would have won instead, as when the red flag came down, Vettel had the worst tyres of the three; he'd done about 50 laps on that set alone! Alonso had a fresher set, and I think Button had an even fresher set, so it could have been an epic finish to an epic race if they weren't allowed to change tyres.

[KiHu]

Too right. If they weren't allowed to change tyres yesterday, then maybe Alonso or Button would have won instead, as when the red flag came down, Vettel had the worst tyres of the three; he'd done about 50 laps on that set alone! Alonso had a fresher set, and I think Button had an even fresher set, so it could have been an epic finish to an epic race if they weren't allowed to change tyres.

Agreed, letting them change tyres ruined the last laps...would have been more interesting to see Vettel fend off Alonso, whilst alonso trying to attack vettel and fending of Button at the same time..

[mps69]

The whole thing made for the last half a dozen laps a complete anti-climax.

They should have just canned the race when it was red flagged.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I think Mark Webbers tweet said it all...

"Did 2 F1 races on Sunday,1 long one 1 short one. In the short race you can change wings,tyres,engine,oops where's the 1000 page rulebook?!"

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I too was disappointed because of the tyre changes. Without them the last five flying laps would have been an epic battle for the win.

[what]

The whole thing made for the last half a dozen laps a complete anti-climax.

They should have just canned the race when it was red flagged.

It was right to continue the race. It wasn't over and they were in the 2 hour time limit.

[ahmz]

I was remembering Senna and Mansell in that moment, but then it was all ruined.

[mps69]

It was right to continue the race. It wasn't over and they were in the 2 hour time limit.

However 75% of the race had been completed, and full points could have been awarded. I believe it's up to the race director to make that call, which he's fully entitled to do.

IMO, I think fans would have preferred that option as apposed to the farcical half dozen parade lap that it turned it turned into.

[Subject Delta]

He wasn't penalised for just taking a risk. He was punished for a dangerous manoeuvre that led to an avoidable collision. Is that Monaco hairpin really the best place to overtake with traffic ahead of you?

You could make that argument for almost any corner on any track at one point or another. Overtaking almost always carries some risk, and if you stifle drivers risk taking, you dull the sport.

Source: Autosport

So.

F***ing

True.

Amen, this regulation needs to be changed, quickly.

[Kerm]

The opportunities to overtake at Monaco are so few that you have to take chances to try and make the move.

Let's face it, Hamilton and Kobayashi are the only drivers who really will take the risks to over take these days.

Ayrton Senna once said 'If you no longer go for a gap, then you are no longer a race driver'.

Long live the race drivers.

[MightyJordan]

Ayrton Senna once said 'If you no longer go for a gap, then you are no longer a race driver'.

Long live the race drivers.

That quote popped straight into my mind when I saw the people on here complaining about Hamilton. (Y) Everyone has to remember that the Monaco circuit is much harder to overtake than the other circuits on the calendar, so the stewards shouldn't have punished Hamilton. He made a clean overtake in the tunnel (which until yesterday, almost everyone would have said is impossible to do without crashing), then Massa screws up, and Hamilton gets penalised. Makes you wonder if the FIA are biased towards Ferrari? I mean, Jean Todt is the president after all...

[vanx]

You could make that argument for almost any corner on any track at one point or another. Overtaking almost always carries some risk, and if you stifle drivers risk taking, you dull the sport.

I have no problem with drivers taking risk without undesired consequences. If a driver takes a risk that results in avoidable damage, he should be punished. There is no reason for irresponsible risk-taking.