[vs] Ximian Desktop 2

[thisdude]

Hey Schmoove the link for the Ximian wallpaper pack doesn't work anymore.

[Binary]

Hmmm. I just read this thread and I don't appreciate being brought into an argument without even being in it. I also don't appreciate you saying I 'stole' watercolor Schmoove. I contacted MS about the whole thing and what went on in those private conversations between me and them is my business and noone elses. They didnt force me to take it down, or give me C&C orders now did they? So there you go.

Basically I own the rights to my skin (the msstyle version and the code within it - not the images), but others can use the original graphics and make their own style aswell. People have made their own versions and I didnt complain, because it's not within my right's to do anything about the graphics side of the issue. You have a simular situation where you don't own the graphics but you do own the code within the skin, so you can say no mods, but you cant stop anyone from using the original graphics. No big deal, since if you make a quality skin, noone else will need to mod it, or the ones that do won't do as good a job as you've done.

Chris

[aiskandar]

:) Anyone have the login screen shot, please post it. I wil try to make one.

[helmers]

Basically I own the rights to my skin (the msstyle version and the code within it - not the images), but others can use the original graphics and make their own style aswell. People have made their own versions and I didnt complain, because it's not within my right's to do anything about the graphics side of the issue. You have a simular situation where you don't own the graphics but you do own the code within the skin, so you can say no mods, but you cant stop anyone from using the original graphics. No big deal, since if you make a quality skin, noone else will need to mod it, or the ones that do won't do as good a job as you've done.

I'm not sure that Schmoove is in the same position as you, because Ximian Desktop 2's industrial theme, AFAIK is released as Open Source. I am not sure about the licence, and if it is also valid on "just graphics", but if it is to follow other applications released under the GPL, you are allowed to mod it as much as you like, but when you release it, you HAVE TO give others the same right to mod it too.

If it isn't under GPL, then you need the permission of the artist and the company, and then nobody else has the right to mod it.

When you use GPL works, you don't have the right to say "it's not GPL anymore"; that you will give everyone else the same power as the orginal creator gave you is required for you to be allowed to use it in the first place.

And Binary, I think that Microsoft owns the right to the original, so if a judge were to look at the original and yours, and say that "this is basically the same thing, Binary didn't invent this" then you don't own the rights to it. Anyone who tries to mimic what "Whistler" looked like are only allowed to do so at Microsofts mercy.

But like you said, both yours and Schmooves skin are of great quality, so I don't think there is any perticular need for modding. :p

[splatnix]

Schmoove - as stated on your deviation page - GREAT WORK!

[Schmoove]

Ok I'm not gonna comment on rights, GPL, license or whatever is connected to that anymore. If you have problems with the style, report it, sue me, do whatever you please..... I don't really give a sh*t.

About the use of the word 'stole'.... Binary you know what the quotes mean and you know the context in which they are used, so get a life.

Hey Schmoove the link for the Ximian wallpaper pack doesn't work anymore.

Sorry had to take them down, my webspace was generating too much traffic.

[antoxicion]

oh god... and i thought Binary got over his "phase" about all the copyright crap...

no one cares what you say anymore Binary..

just go spam other threads like your own.

and grow up.

[adamp2p]

antitocion, why are you so rude? It is a quite adolescent to make such suggestions

[antoxicion]

antitocion, why are you so rude? It is a quite adolescent to make such suggestions

you werent here before... so you wouldnt know how he was like.

[ericsson]

I was just wondering... How many people would be interested in a Windowblinds port of this wonderful theme and if Schmoove would kindly give me permission to port it. Of course I'd give you first look at it to see if you would grant permission.

I've been getting into Windowblinds lately and honestly, I really like it. Some say it's slow and "buggy" I just don't think they've used it long enough to appreciate it.

So wata ya say, Schmoove?

[Schmoove]

I was just wondering... How many people would be interested in a Windowblinds port of this wonderful theme and if Schmoove would kindly give me permission to port it. Of course I'd give you first look at it to see if you would grant permission.

I've been getting into Windowblinds lately and honestly, I really like it. Some say it's slow and "buggy" I just don't think they've used it long enough to appreciate it.

So wata ya say, Schmoove?

I think this is a good idea. If you want to port it, I'd say go ahead!

If you need my help in testing or other things you can always contact me.

You might have read the discussion about the rights etc, so you know you technically don't need my permission.

Though I really appreciate it that you do ask for it. I have no problems with you (or any other) porting it to WindowBlind.

If it is not a problem to you I would love to see it before you release it though. Just to see if it lives up to my expectations and maybe some bug hunting.

Anyways, go ahead and good luck with it. Hope you have the patience to bring this to a good end (porting is 10% skills and 90% patience in my opinion.... many fail on the patience aspect).

Again if you need any help, don't hesitate to contact me.

[Vidar]

Ok I'm not gonna comment on rights, GPL, license or whatever is connected to that anymore. If you have problems with the style, report it, sue me, do whatever you please..... I don't really give a sh*t.

About the use of the word 'stole'.... Binary you know what the quotes mean and you know the context in which they are used, so get a life.

Sorry had to take them down, my webspace was generating too much traffic.

My only comment to the legality conversation is this...

In doing the Trillian skin for BlueCurve and now for Ximian, I made sure I noted who the artist was and what guidelines they posted their artwork. In both cases, Garret and Jakub have given their art over under the GNU Public License (GPL). I've studied the GPL rather intensively, even did a presentation on it for an English 150 class in college.

Under the GPL, as long as I give credit and agree to make my works ALSO under the GPL, there is no infringement. Legally, Schmoove is perfectly in his right to create this theme and any other theme carried under the GPL License. The only side-jab he will have is the ethical ideas. If he doesn't give credit nor at least notifies Jakub (in the case of Ximian) or Le Sage (in the case of BlueCurve), its not very ethical -- but legal. My understanding is he has done so already.

I overstepped my ethical shoes the first time around by releasing the BlueCurve Winamp update without asking Le Sage (who by coincidence actually posts here and saw my artwork and was ok with it since it was merely bug fixes and stayed true to his artwork). This time around, I e-mailed Jakub Steiner, and since I have yet to receive responce, I waited until the project was finished and fullfilled my legal obligation of credit (both in the posting of the Ximian Winamp and the readme.txt file included.).

The same goes for the ximian trillian skin (which is why its still in-development). I want my works to be accurate and not a half-assed mockup of what the original artists intended. This is why I'm very critical of Schmoove when he did BlueCurve and Ximian. Its cool he did the color additions as even LeSage offers a new artwork pack with different colors of BlueCurve. Ximian has a specific icon set and a specific look, and so far Schmoove has been faithful (though the folder icons in his iconpackager pack is slightly off. I believe XD2 uses the "Korilla"/"Gorilla Stock" folders rather than Gnome 2. Hehe.)

Nuff yapping. On with skinning. Schmoove, excellent work bud. And if you are having bandwidth issues, let me know. I have a nice FAT pipe off a co-loc I use for VidarBox.net and I'd be glad to share :)

In the meantime, I already had the wallpapers taken directly from XD2 on my server. Have fun and enjoy.

XD2 Wallpapers

Edited September 19, 2003 by Vidar

[Schmoove]

Ximian has a specific icon set and a specific look, and so far Schmoove has been faithful (though the folder icons in his iconpackager pack is slightly off. I believe XD2 uses the "Korilla"/"Gorilla Stock" folders rather than Gnome 2. Hehe.)

I'm aware of that. I have the real folders that Ximian uses here, but they have a bizarre size (48x62 or something like that).... resizing them makes them look really akward and editing them didn't really work out the way I wanted.

At a certain point you need to make a choice of what you're gonna do. I made this choice. Is it the best choice.... hell I dunno, but I think it replicates the Ximian Desktop 2 feel pretty close.

About crediting the original authors, I did that in the installers (I rarely make readme's, but you can't miss it as soon as you run the installer). I also contacted Garrett and the people at Ximian, but for some reason responding on a mail is something that is very hard for some people.

And Vidar, love the work you do on the Trillian/Winamp skins!!! Great stuff!!!

[ericsson]

Schmoove, trust me, I'm not gonna port it half-assedly. I might end up with minor bugs for parts that I do not use. For instance, a vertical taskbar. But I will try to do your msstyle justice with my WB port :) Thanks again for the permission and encouragement. You will be the first to see it.

[Binary]

oh god... and i thought Binary got over his "phase" about all the copyright crap...

no one cares what you say anymore Binary..

just go spam other threads like your own.

and grow up.

Grow up? Sorry, but I let things go until I'm called a thief, even if it wasnt intended that way. As I stated I talked to MS reps. and I'm within my bounds. I was just explaining the situation. As for spamming, do you even know what that word means? Because you certainly used it way out of context here. When people bring my name into a thread, I have every right to stand up for, and explain myself. I really dont know why you're pulling an attitude with me, none of it is your business and noone wants to listen to you either it seems :\

And schmoove I was trying to help you out, I just said it wasnt needed to say 'stole', so get rid of the attitude :\

This board truly does suck anymore.

- if someone wants to answer this post do it in PM's I don't want to sidetrack schmooves thread anymore than it is :)

Chris

[Vidar]

I'm aware of that. I have the real folders that Ximian uses here, but they have a bizarre size (48x62 or something like that).... resizing them makes them look really akward and editing them didn't really work out the way I wanted.

At a certain point you need to make a choice of what you're gonna do. I made this choice. Is it the best choice.... hell I dunno, but I think it replicates the Ximian Desktop 2 feel pretty close.

I understand. Its one of the reason I'm at a halt now on the Trill skin. The progress bars, IMHO for XD2 ... suck. But am I to be accurate or make them look nice?

As to the folder icons, I rooted into my Redhat box (with XD2) and actually I'm wrong, it does use Gnome 2's squarish folders. *I* will use the Korilla icon package as a personal preference, but for those wanting accuracy go with Schmoove. "You Da Man" :shifty:

[j005u]

mabe this has been posted alvready, but is the attached a bug?

i mean the left side of the drop down boxes arrows?

its really anooying me..

edit: also, is there a winamp skin? i didnt really bother reading trought the entire thread..

[Icarus ^i^]

edit: also, is there a winamp skin? i didnt really bother reading trought the entire thread..

There's one on Vidar's page. Check his sig for the URL :)

[j005u]

There's one on Vidar's page. Check his sig for the URL :)

thanx :)

[sanctified Veteran]

you all are converting this into a unnecesary flamewar

first of all, schmoove, get down of your cloud, yeah, you did bluecurve and this, I was involved with k10k, classix and c10k and neither I nor the other themers involved have your attitude, stop beign so arrogant to other themers, cut this and keep working on the theme, period.

antitoxicon: I was here way before you, and I agree with binary, any questions?

[ericsson]

The way I see it, Binary is the one with the attitude. Schmoove stated his views on people modding his theme. Completely warranted. He made a point by saying that Binary actually is "stealing" graphics from Microsoft, which he did. He was making a POINT. Binary chose to see it as an attack. And what kind of mod are you to drip oil on the fire? Please read your own post since it was more offensive than both Binary's AND Schmoove's exchanges put together. Where do you get off calling one themer better than another and demanding he continue "working on the theme"?

A good mod is supposed to diffuse heated situations without taking sides. How can you talk about "unnecessary flamewar" in one sentence and then join in on another? You're just as bad, if not worse than the flamers. You are a moderator.

[sanctified Veteran]

The way I see it, Binary is the one with the attitude. Schmoove stated his views on people modding his theme. Completely warranted. He made a point by saying that Binary actually is "stealing" graphics from Microsoft, which he did. He was making a POINT. Binary chose to see it as an attack. And what kind of mod are you to drip oil on the fire? Please read your own post since it was more offensive than both Binary's AND Schmoove's exchanges put together. Where do you get off calling one themer better than another and demanding he continue "working on the theme"?

first, Binary talked to microsoft about the theme, so he is not "stealing" so the rest of your point is flawed

second: I edited my previous post to a slightier mood

third: I just raised a fact, not a random and dumb attack, take it as you want, dont tell me how to do my job, Im not flamming you are just gettint sensitive

[ericsson]

Yes. And I think all the flamers are "raising facts" as well. It's in the way you word things. All you had to do, as a mod, was tell both Binary and Schmoove to stop. You chose to pick a side. Why don't you reflect on yourself and wonder what a moderator is actually for. Do you think Neowin would have gotten this big if all the mods took sides and flamed their users?

Anyway, you and I don't need to start another war. Let's just end this now and get back on track. I'll be working on the WB port now. No hard feelings.

[sanctified Veteran]

Yes. And I think all the flamers are "raising facts" as well. It's in the way you word things. All you had to do, as a mod, was tell both Binary and Schmoove to stop. You chose to pick a side. Why don't you reflect on yourself and wonder what a moderator is actually for. Do you think Neowin would have gotten this big if all the mods took sides and flamed their users?

Anyway, you and I don't need to start another war. Let's just end this now and get back on track. I'll be working on the WB port now. No hard feelings.

thats why I edited the post and at first I said "you all" because I need to be neutral, but this time I was more the user and skinner than the mod, good call in your last line, we dont need to start another one.

[Schmoove]

Ok Saint Dark, lets get some perspective here. The argument was settled about 15 pages ago.... if people decide to bring stuff like that up again that's fine with me, but don't expect a decent answer from me. I don't like to type the same **** over and over again.

I made my point several times, if you don't like it that is too bad, I'm not gonna change my opinion because of somebody else.

If you think I'm arrogant that is fine too, I don't really give ****. Anyways if there is anyone with an attitude here it is you and not me.

I hope that this thing will end now because I'm getting really tired of it actually. I'm not the one who is constantly bringing useless points like this up.....

I'm not gonna comment on any of this any longer.

Oh and one thing.... about the word "stole" I used.... maybe it wasn't really the correct word, maybe I should have chosen something else. The word was placed between quotes and there was a clear context.... if you people really don't get what that means and get offended by that, well maybe it is time to go back to school and learn something more.