Sony Raids Hacker's Home; Hacker Shares All Known HV Info

[mindscape]

People should realize that even if these two guys stop what they're doing, other people will continue their work regardless.

Yeah just a gaming console which makes so much money that it's worth doing that. But you'd never understand.

And don't forget, PS3's are computers with powerful hardware. They have also been used for research purposes. You should remember that MD5 was cracked using a cluster of PS3's that exposed a critical weakness in online public/private key encryption. This is why we shouldn't have closed platforms.

People also need to stop being ignorant and automatically associate "hacker" as one of the deadliest sins in the world. Stop getting all butthurt about being beat in a game. These hackers hardly give a salty ass about beating you at some game but rather extending the capabilities of the PS3's software.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

People should realize that even if these two guys stop what they're doing, other people will continue their work regardless.

Which wouldn't be a problem, as I really doubt other people will be as sweet teen 16 as these two have been and won't therefore get their identities compromised.

You do realize Sony are going after them as they basically presented their asses on a platter?

[iamawesomewicked]

:pinch:

Okay well for the sake of that, then Sony had no right to install rootkits onto users computers. They did not own the computers, the data, nor the software contained on it, nor did they ask for permission to install the software. So Sony is no better than a rogue hacker. End case.

Yeah, they got in trouble for that. They don't do it anymore. See how your points make no sense?

[NeoTrunks]

Sony citing the removal of OtherOS as a security factor is all the more apparent now. The hackers were using it as a vector to hack the system's security. And they got ****ed off when it was removed. They weren't mad that they could no longer use Firefox on the PS3. They were mad that their job was made harder.

So the hackers benefited the 10 geeks that want to run Linux on the PS3, while compromising the fun the other millions have. I'm still waiting to see how they have benefited all of the other users and me.

[Athernar]

I'm guessing none of you would have an issue then if Microsoft and Intel/AMD teamed up to lock out all non-Windows operating systems from the x86 platform?

All 3rd party x86 software must now be approved by Steve Ballmer (For a small fee). Kiss goodbye to your 3rd party browsers guys, IE6 for everyone!

[AJerman]

What an insane comment.

When your house gets robbed, do you blame the police for not preventing it or do you blame the burglers who took your stuff?

Yeah, it would definitely be on you just as much for not having the security to keep someone out. To use your analogy, this is like putting one lock on your front door (and in this case, a misconfigured lock), telling everyone they can't break into your house, and not having any security after that lock. The lock is broken, everything is wide open to be taken. You honestly have to be a mindless Sony fanboy to think this isn't as much Sony's fault for the lack of security, even if you don't agree with what the hackers are doing.

This goes back to a very simple and always true statement. EVERYTHING can be broken. For Sony to act like it can't be only fuels the fire more for people to try to break it, and when you don't have any security on your online service to detect hackers, you HAVE to expect this to happen some day. Any company that thinks otherwise needs to pull their heads out of their asses. Especially when you have such poor coding that leads to these kind of hacks.

Also, I very much agree that they are going about this the wrong way. First off, they aren't going to make money off of these guys by suing them. They are probably losing money actually since the amount they are spending on the lawsuits is probably more than most of these hackers are worth. Second, suing them isn't going to stop anything at all. If anything, like this has proven, it will make it worse because they will just release their info to the public so that 10 more hackers can pick up where they left off. Nothing about these lawsuits is a win for Sony, which is why you haven't seen Apple or Microsoft go after people like this. Just be ready for it and be ready to patch the issue and release an update and learn from your mistakes.

I'm not condoning what's been done, I'm just using common sense and logic. Sony is not helping themselves at all by doing this. They should have built a more secure system in the first place and expected the hacks to come eventually, just like they have for every game console ever built.

[NeoTrunks]

I'm guessing none of you would have an issue then if Microsoft and Intel/AMD teamed up to lock out all non-Windows operating systems from the x86 platform?

All 3rd party x86 software must now be approved by Steve Ballmer (For a small fee). Kiss goodbye to your 3rd party browsers guys, IE6 for everyone!

Seriously? Is that be best analogy you could come up with? If Microsoft was selling and designing the hardware with a license stating that you couldn't modify it, yes, I would be okay with it. But that's not the case at all here. Go and try to install Linux on an Xbox 360. Microsoft has decided that you cannot. Where are those complaints?

[DukeEsquire]

Yeah, it would definitely be on you just as much for not having the security to keep someone out. To use your analogy, this is like putting one lock on your front door (and in this case, a misconfigured lock), telling everyone they can't break into your house, and not having any security after that lock. The lock is broken, everything is wide open to be taken. You honestly have to be a mindless Sony fanboy to think this isn't as much Sony's fault for the lack of security, even if you don't agree with what the hackers are doing.

This goes back to a very simple and always true statement. EVERYTHING can be broken. For Sony to act like it can't be only fuels the fire more for people to try to break it, and when you don't have any security on your online service to detect hackers, you HAVE to expect this to happen some day. Any company that thinks otherwise needs to pull their heads out of their asses. Especially when you have such poor coding that leads to these kind of hacks.

Also, I very much agree that they are going about this the wrong way. First off, they aren't going to make money off of these guys by suing them. They are probably losing money actually since the amount they are spending on the lawsuits is probably more than most of these hackers are worth. Second, suing them isn't going to stop anything at all. If anything, like this has proven, it will make it worse because they will just release their info to the public so that 10 more hackers can pick up where they left off. Nothing about these lawsuits is a win for Sony, which is why you haven't seen Apple or Microsoft go after people like this. Just be ready for it and be ready to patch the issue and release an update and learn from your mistakes.

I'm not condoning what's been done, I'm just using common sense and logic. Sony is not helping themselves at all by doing this. They should have built a more secure system in the first place and expected the hacks to come eventually, just like they have for every game console ever built.

1. That may be your opinion, but that's not how the law or the real world works. If someone breaks into your house, whether you had a lock or not, it's 100% their fault.

2. When did Sony call the PS3 unhackable? Their coding and security was actually very good considering it took 4 years to break it.

3. Sony knows they aren't going to get money from Geohot. You think Geohot has $1 million sitting in the bank? Sony is doing this to send a message. It's working already. At a minimum, Geohot can't do any more hacking for now.

[Athernar]

Seriously? Is that be best analogy you could come up with? If Microsoft was selling and designing the hardware with a license stating that you couldn't modify it, yes, I would be okay with it. But that's not the case at all here. Go and try to install Linux on an Xbox 360. Microsoft has decided that you cannot. Where are those complaints?

Strange, I'm finding plenty of hits for "xbox 360 linux".

And heck, I'm sure there are plenty of EULAs wrapped around Windows and Intel/AMD products with a "We can change this EULA to whatever we want" clauses.

Anyway, why are you so opposed to such an idea? YOU MUST BE A PIRATEHACKER, WINDOWS NEEDS TO BE SECURED TO STOP COMMUNISTS.

[c3ntury]

As a system, the PS3 is pretty much screwed now, because of the fact that hackers can access everything at this point. As there is no anti-cheat system enabled for online games, there really isn't any point playing on PSN now.

Agreed, although I'm pretty sure they have a system in the works to stop PS3 hackers across the board. Although I doubt it will work for long. /shrug.

[NeoTrunks]

Strange, I'm finding plenty of hits for "xbox 360 linux".

Show me where this is working.

And heck, I'm sure there are plenty of EULAs wrapped around Windows and Intel/AMD products with a "We can change this EULA to whatever we want" clauses.

Don't assume such. Show me where this is in those EULAs.

Anyway, why are you so opposed to such an idea? YOU MUST BE A PIRATEHACKER, WINDOWS NEEDS TO BE SECURED TO STOP COMMUNISTS.

When I bought Windows, I did it to use Windows as designed. The same goes for my PS3. Hack your Windows and PS3 to your heart's content. The moment you put the information out there to ruin that experience for everyone else, that's when I, and many others will have a problem. We don't care what your intent was.

[Subject Delta]

They did a great job of making it secure, it was a human that decided it would be cool to steal a jig key and that's how it all started. The hackers really had no hope till that happened.

It's been unhacked for years till that happened, in my eyes that's a pretty secure machine.

Nope, they where just lucky that it didn't get exposed. Once it has been exposed, how woefully inadequate it was is plain for all to see.

[AJerman]

1. That may be your opinion, but that's not how the law or the real world works. If someone breaks into your house, whether you had a lock or not, it's 100% their fault.

2. When did Sony call the PS3 unhackable? Their coding and security was actually very good considering it took 4 years to break it.

3. Sony knows they aren't going to get money from Geohot. You think Geohot has $1 million sitting in the bank? Sony is doing this to send a message. It's working already. At a minimum, Geohot can't do any more hacking for now.

1. No, they get in trouble, but it doesn't mean it wasn't your own fault too for not having security. Kind of like if I leave a $100 bill on the table and walk away. The person who steals it is in the wrong, but it's my fault for leaving it out there to be stolen too.

2. Honestly, I don't know, I've just seen so many people say that they said it that I was taking their word for it. Maybe Sony didn't say it and the community did. That would be different then.

3. How is it sending a message? More people are involved now than ever. At maximum Geohot won't be hacking individually himself. It's certainly not going to stop the crowd that will now become more anonymous from hacking it. They just won't plaster their names and faces all over the place like Geohot did.

[FloatingFatMan]

What an insane comment.

When your house gets robbed, do you blame the police for not preventing it or do you blame the burglers who took your stuff?

No, but if you didn't even lock your doors and fit an alarm, it's you're own stupid fault.

[FloatingFatMan]

Sony citing the removal of OtherOS as a security factor is all the more apparent now. The hackers were using it as a vector to hack the system's security. And they got ****ed off when it was removed. They weren't mad that they could no longer use Firefox on the PS3. They were mad that their job was made harder.

So the hackers benefited the 10 geeks that want to run Linux on the PS3, while compromising the fun the other millions have. I'm still waiting to see how they have benefited all of the other users and me.

Actually, OtherOS IS a consideration in all this. I was going to get my son a PS3 so that he had a decent console in his room AND a desktop computer he could use for schoolwork etc. Then Sony took OtherOS away and I changed my mind about getting him one.

[NeoTrunks]

^^^In my opinion, you did him a favor. When I ran Yellow Dog on my PS3, it was soo slow. It wasn't worth the trouble for me. It was more of a novelty than a necessity unless you were doing some hardcore number crunching.

[Athernar]

Show me where this is working.

Look for yourself.

Don't assume such. Show me where this is in those EULAs.

Look for yourself. Most EULAs specify this so they can be revised in case of an oversight.

When I bought Windows, I did it to use Windows as designed. The same goes for my PS3. Hack your Windows and PS3 to your heart's content. The moment you put the information out there to ruin that experience for everyone else, that's when I, and many others will have a problem. We don't care what your intent was.

You can use lunix to hack VIRUSES!!!11 Microsoft should sue lunix cuz there hacker communists!!!111

[NeoTrunks]

Look for yourself.

I want results with it working. Not projects. I'm at work, so I'm not going to go and research this.

Look for yourself. Most EULAs specify this so they can be revised in case of an oversight.

I'm not going to waste my time searching for something thats potentially nonexistent. The burden of proof if on you for saying that it is.

You can use lunix to hack VIRUSES!!!11 Microsoft should sue lunix cuz there hacker communists!!!111

Do you actually have a point, or did your brain explode there? :laugh:

[Athernar]

I want results with it working. Not projects. I'm at work, so I'm not going to go and research this.

I'm not going to waste my time searching for something thats potentially nonexistent. The burden of proof if on you for saying that it is.

Hacking on the PS3 is non-existant, I can say this is fact because I can stick my head in the sand!

Do you actually have a point, or did your brain explode there? :laugh:

I think the point is quite clear. Linux can be used to hack the PC/Windows platform, so by your logic it should be illegalised and closed down.

[NeoTrunks]

Hacking on the PS3 is non-existant, I can say this is fact because I can stick my head in the sand!

Right. I'll be waiting for those results.

I think the point is quite clear. Linux can be used to hack the PC/Windows platform, so by your logic it should be illegalised and closed down.

That wasn't my logic nor my point. This is very extreme that you're going to compare an open computing platform with proprietary hardware connecting to a closed network.

My point was that Sony had every right to protect its network from people looking to exploit it. They didn't brick everyone's console that was running Linux. They released an update to disable the OtherOS. If you were using your PS3 primarily for OtherOS, you did not have to update. You'd just not be able to connect to their closed network.

What was your point again?

[iamawesomewicked]

I'm guessing none of you would have an issue then if Microsoft and Intel/AMD teamed up to lock out all non-Windows operating systems from the x86 platform?

All 3rd party x86 software must now be approved by Steve Ballmer (For a small fee). Kiss goodbye to your 3rd party browsers guys, IE6 for everyone!

Your analogy is fail for one, because if they locked out x86 then someone would make something else and then they'd have other OS's to run on that and then Windows would lose market share and then it would die.

They would never do it.

[Athernar]

Right. I'll be waiting for those results.

Nuh uh! The burden of proof is on YOU!

That wasn't my logic nor my point. This is very extreme that you're going to compare an open computing platform with proprietary hardware connecting to a closed network.

My point was that Sony had every right to protect its network from people looking to exploit it. They didn't brick everyone's console that was running Linux. They released an update to disable the OtherOS. If you were using your PS3 primarily for OtherOS, you did not have to update. You'd just not be able to connect to their closed network.

What was your point again?

Open computing platform? Hahaha. This might come as a surprise to you, but the PC platform is just as proprietary as the PS3; ever heard of the x86 instruction set? It's Intel's property. ;)

Intel and Microsoft should lock down the PC and only allow approved code to run. Doing so would impede piracy and hacking; according to you, this is all the justification needed.

Your analogy is fail for one, because if they locked out x86 then someone would make something else and then they'd have other OS's to run on that and then Windows would lose market share and then it would die.

They would never do it.

"someone would make something else"

Yes, I'm sure. :rofl:

[HawkMan]

Actually, OtherOS IS a consideration in all this. I was going to get my son a PS3 so that he had a decent console in his room AND a desktop computer he could use for schoolwork etc. Then Sony took OtherOS away and I changed my mind about getting him one.

sorry, but those 3 are not compatible. The PS3 is not and will NEVER be, a decent desktop OS. The processor isn't very good at the task, and it has to little memory.

[NeoTrunks]

Nuh uh! The burden of proof is on YOU!

Good to see this little game is fun to you.

Open computing platform? Hahaha. This might come as a surprise to you, but the PC platform is just as proprietary as the PS3; ever heard of the x86 instruction set? It's Intel's property. ;)

Intel and Microsoft should lock down the PC and only allow approved code to run. Doing so would impede piracy and hacking; according to you, this is all the justification needed.

They designed it, but they have not been keeping it to themselves. Other companies have added to x86, in fact. x86-64 comes to mind. AMD created that.

[Athernar]

They designed it, but they have not been keeping it to themselves. Other companies have added to x86, in fact. x86-64 comes to mind. AMD created that.

AMD hold a license to x86 granted to them by Intel at a time where AMD only essentially made cheap replicas, AMD's success with the Athlon 64 gave them enough leeway to force Intel to take up AMD64 over IA-64. Anyone else? Nah, you're screwed.

If the PC platform was really as open as you say it is, then nVidia would of entered the CPU market a long time ago now. So yes, they have been keeping it to themselves; otherwise x86 would be an open standard.