212 replies to this topic 5 votes

[Shane Nokes]

LaP, on 16 November 2012 - 19:49, said:

I totally agree with you. My problem with the start screen is not the lack of start menu. It's how some people act like the start screen is awesome and the best thing since sliced bread.

The start menu was not great. But nobody ever acted like it was. It was there. People used it here and there. Nothing more nothing less. It did not make or break Windows.

Now it's like that ****** start screen is the second coming of god. Nobody can't say anything bad about it without being flamed to death. Ok ok i'm overreacting here but not by much.

I don't think anyone is treating it like the second coming of anything.

People are bashing it pretty hard and the point that we are making is that there's no need for the start menu with the start screen there. All of the functions are there, with the addition of live tiles. That makes for a pretty nice upgrade over the old functionality.

There's nothing praising it like a messiah, but pointing out that people who are like 'doom and gloom' are being ridiculous about it.

[Dot Matrix]

CSharp., on 16 November 2012 - 19:54, said:

The icons for legacy apps aren't really that much larger (if indeed larger at all) on the Start Screen than they were in the Start menu?!

I was hinting at the "all apps" menu, but yes, the classic icons are still 32x32, but even then are displayed in (IMO) beautiful tiles that can be customized per the user. With the Start Menu, they all exist together. With the Start Screen, I can separate them into easier to read and see categories.

[duddit2]

neufuse, on 16 November 2012 - 14:58, said:

the problem isn't "getting it" the problem is how its done... its a full screen app.. works fine on tablets, but on a desktop can get annoying if you work 99% of your day in non-full screen apps on a well desktop mode desktop... you need a smaller version of the start screen in the desktop mode that can be taken full screen if you want it

OK so I'll go along with this partially, but on your desktop you don't have to use the modern UI apps - you can use your normal desktop apps and the only difference is the start screen. The thing here is the old start screen didn't take up the whole screen, BUT I do not see the benefit of this or the negative of a full screen start screen, simply because when you had the start screen open you couldn't interact with any of your desktop stuff without the start menu closing. the only difference is the new start screen is full screen with no usability impact (well little, depending on how much you used the start menu and customised it and how little you used taskbar pinning).

So we have one issue here then, running modern UI apps on a large desktop PC isn't to your tastes, but the modern UI 'language' doesn't mean this has to be the case, a well designed modern app will show more info/data/pics/posts/tweets/game screen etc. You can show two at once with snapping but I get it if you still don't like the full screen apps in the modern UI, its a preference of yours. So don't, just use desktop apps, pin them to taskbar or open them from start screen from a tile or type to find or do what loads of none techys do and add desktop shortcuts - the only thing that's changed for your workflow is the visual appearance of the start menu/screen.

[Luis Mazza]

Dot Matrix, on 16 November 2012 - 19:55, said:

Code bloat? Also, Windows 8 is a special case, it's a clean break from the days of old. Microsoft has spent the past few years, reinventing itself, and as per Sinofsky's leave, is still continuing.

Then there's the technical reasons that have been listed ad nauseum elsewhere online.

Code bloat is having undesired features that people are not responding well on a DESKTOP.

There are no technical issues to implement this, don't be such a fanboy...

Microsoft should give what users want and shut up.

[aviator189]

Ms, just bring it back. It'll please tons of people.

[duddit2]

Its gone, bringing back might please some techy people now but will hurt the long term vision and the new ecosystem overall. Its not happening and this is not fan boyism, its hard reality folks.

Its a little different in functionality, looks a lot different and you will get used to it - history is with me on this.

[Lord Method Man]

LaP, on 16 November 2012 - 19:00, said:

You greatly underestimate the number of desktop PC in the corporate world running WIndows XP but having a Windows Vista license sticker on the top or side of the case.

Sadly I'm using one of those right now. I'd much rather have Vista at least.

[CSharp.]

duddit2, on 16 November 2012 - 21:12, said:

Its gone, bringing back [...] will hurt the long term [Metro-] vision and the new [Metro-] ecosystem overall.

That's absolutely right.

[Dot Matrix]

Luis Mazza, on 16 November 2012 - 20:50, said:

Code bloat is having undesired features that people are not responding well on a DESKTOP.

Code Bloat is excessive code piling up. With the Start Screen taking over for the Start Menu, and Microsoft wanting to move Windows in a new direction, well, there you go.

Luis Mazza, on 16 November 2012 - 20:50, said:

There are no technical issues to implement this, don't be such a fanboy...

O rly...

Luis Mazza, on 16 November 2012 - 20:50, said:

Microsoft should give what users want and shut up.

Spoken like a true pundit. They have no liability to do so. It's their OS, not yours. You are not the designer, you are not the developer, you are not the CEO. Don't like it? Don't use it.

[Javik]

Dot Matrix, on 16 November 2012 - 19:55, said:

Code bloat? Also, Windows 8 is a special case, it's a clean break from the days of old. Microsoft has spent the past few years, reinventing itself, and as per Sinofsky's leave, is still continuing.

Yeah, I'm so happy that they gave me that extra meg of disk space back. It makes the crappy design of the start screen so worth it!

Dot Matrix, on 16 November 2012 - 21:37, said:

Spoken like a true pundit. They have no liability to do so. It's their OS, not yours. You are not the designer, you are not the developer, you are not the CEO. Don't like it? Don't use it.

If as a developer you took that attitude and a large number of people stopped using the product you'd have egg on your place pretty quickly Apple may be able to pull smug arrogance off, Microsoft cannot.

[Shane Nokes]

Javik, on 16 November 2012 - 21:53, said:

Yeah, I'm so happy that they gave me that extra meg of disk space back. It makes the crappy design of the start screen so worth it!



If as a developer you took that attitude and a large number of people stopped using the product you'd have egg on your place pretty quickly Apple may be able to pull smug arrogance off, Microsoft cannot.

Indeed. They only hold a VAST majority share of the PC market...nope they can't afford to pull off doing their own thing at all.

They are such a fail company...

/VivaLaBittenFruitLogo

[+warwagon]

I'm starting to warm up to the start screen, but it still feels off, having my entire screen cover up what I was doing when I hit the windows key.

[Javik]

Doesn't matter how much of the market they hold. Customers punished them for Vista, they can do it again. I don't actually like Apple products.

[Colin McGregor]

Xoligy, on 16 November 2012 - 15:49, said:

I fail too see what you saying here, if your saying that them sales figures are 100% accurate them im affraid your wrong, also didnt vista sell millions yet most people went back to XP? See, you proved nothing also you have not taken into account the multiple copies of Start8 used, if a person has one code they will use it on multiple machines, also there are alternatives to Start8 which are free and its not hard to get a crack.

As for the comment about can not adapt to a more efficient start screen thats not true either. I find the new screen mostly ugly, plus with the amount of apps i run at one time its easier to have a start menu/taskbar layout plus the time is at the bottom of the screen if you dont move the taskbar, ontop of of being able to see the time without moving the mouse i see what apps are open and if i choose can spread the tabs along the taskbar ungrouped making for easier app changing. Yes i could use alt and tab but i choose not too, plus i feel i can organised my desktop better than the start screen and it saves jumping from a start screen to a desktop which is not efficient imo.

Yes it can be great if you have a low app base, and not use multiple programs at once but some of us do.

Back on topic, i doubt window will add it with the multiple 3rd applications out there that are already doing a good enough job, and if they did would it be better or worse than 3rd party ones?

most people didn't go back to XP. Vista still to this day has more users then Mac OS and Linux combined

[Javik]

http://www.netmarket...e.aspx?qprid=10

Actually according to this it's about half