Windows 8 HAS NO START MENU

[Ci7]

none has look at it this way? Windows 8 Would trigger raise of Touch Monitors demands! (both for laptops/desktops)

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

the metro look will simply not look right on a laptop or desktop with a non touch screen. what we need is a revised aero look with a classic start menu for users that do not want the "wall of tiles".

You are wrong. It looks beautiful in the Zune software. It appears you're suggesting it won't look right on a desktop or laptop without a touchscreen, but it will look fine on a desktop or laptop with a touchscreen; is that what you're suggesting? If so, a device having a touchscreen or not having a touchscreen cannot change the look of the software that runs on it. . . .

[KingCrimson]

the bottom line is if you do not like windows 8 then stick to windows 7... it will be supported for many more years plus im sure it will get another service pack or two.

the metro look will simply not look right on a laptop or desktop with a non touch screen. what we need is a revised aero look with a classic start menu for users that do not want the "wall of tiles".

You know this how?

[.Neo]

You are wrong. It looks beautiful in the Zune software.

Your opinion is fact now?

[Athernar]

After using a Windows Phone since October, I'm confident the Start Screen will work much better than the Start Menu does. Unlike you, I'm willing to try it out, give it a chance, and actually see whether it does work better. You're judging and berating it before Microsoft have even told us much about it. You're implying people shouldn't get rid of things that work, but they certainly should if they release improvements; this new experience may well be an improvement.

Wait wait wait.

Did you seriously just say that you're confident that the start screen will be better, because you were using a phone with a similar interface? :rofl:

I was just using my watch, and I'm confident that a strict four-button only interface for all computing devices will be -fabulous-.

You're seriously coming across as a naive apologist in this thread.

[Calum Veteran]

Your opinion is fact now?

Of course not. I have never stated it as fact! My reply was clearly my opinion. He said the Metro design language would never work on the desktop, and I informed him he is wrong because it looks beautiful in the Zune software (something that is clearly an opinion). Although, to add: It is fact that the Metro design language works on the desktop, due to the Zune software. It was just my opinion that it looks beautiful.

[KingCrimson]

Of course not. I have never stated it as fact! My reply was clearly my opinion. He said the Metro design language would never work on the desktop, and I informed him he is wrong because it looks beautiful in the Zune software (something that is clearly an opinion). Although, to add: It is fact that the Metro design language works on the desktop, due to the Zune software. It was just my opinion that it looks beautiful.

I agree, I love the Zune software. It's the best looking desktop app MSFT has ever done.

[Calum Veteran]

Wait wait wait.

Did you seriously just say that you're confident that the start screen will be better, because you were using a phone with a similar interface? :rofl:

I was just using my watch, and I'm confident that a strict four-button only interface for all computing devices will be -fabulous-.

You're seriously coming across as a naive apologist in this thread.

I find it amusing how you tried to be clever, but you forgot to include common sense in your reply.

Of course my experience with Windows Phone's Start Screen can give me confidence in Windows 8's Start Screen. When I said that, I was referring to how useful the live tiles are. The live tiles in Windows 8 will be very similar to Windows Phone's; they'll just display more information as Microsoft have pointed out. Due to this, it makes sense to suggest that as I find them so useful on Windows Phone, I may find them useful on Windows 8. It's nothing to do with the screen size; it's to do with the concept, and the live tile concept is something that will work on any screen size. Your response about the watch is completely idiotic. If you even bother to look at both Windows 8 and Windows Phone, you will realise that the live tiles in each operating system are somewhat different, but the concept is the same. Your idiotic, stupid, asinine mention of a watch-inspired user interface doesn't take this into account.

[Calum Veteran]

I agree, I love the Zune software. It's the best looking desktop app MSFT has ever done.

I think that too :) That's why I'm looking forward to seeing what they have in store for Windows 8 now they've announced they'll be heavily making use of Metro :)

[Athernar]

You are seriously coming across as someone who doesn't understand a lot in life with this reply.

Oh the irony.

Of course my experience with Windows Phone's Start Screen can give me confidence in Windows 8's Start Screen. When I said that, I was referring to how useful the live tiles are. The live tiles in Windows 8 will be very similar to Windows Phone's; they'll just display more information as Microsoft have pointed out. Due to this, it makes sense to suggest that as I find them so useful on Windows Phone, I may find them useful on Windows 8. It's nothing to do with the screen size; it's to do with the concept, and the live tile concept is something that will work on any screen size. Your response about the watch is completely idiotic. Anyone with common sense understands that such an interface would not work. If you even bother to look at both Windows 8 and Windows Phone, you will realise that the live tiles are somewhat different, but the concept is the same. Your idiotic, stupid, asinine mention of a watch-inspired user interface doesn't take this into account.

I'm not the one making assumptions of success based on subjective effectiveness over polar form-factors.

But okay, clearly you're completely ignorant and naive when it comes to UI design, and are incapable of anything else but parroting gimmicks and apologies.

It's funny because earlier you rejected the notion of the start screen being the same UI crammed onto the desktop, but now you unintentionally confirm it. Hilarious.

[fix-this!]

Of course not. I have never stated it as fact! My reply was clearly my opinion. He said the Metro design language would never work on the desktop, and I informed him he is wrong because it looks beautiful in the Zune software (something that is clearly an opinion). Although, to add: It is fact that the Metro design language works on the desktop, due to the Zune software. It was just my opinion that it looks beautiful.

i know your a mod but it's your opinion and no you did NOT correct me as no ones opinion can be wrong. im glad you like metro but many of us do not.

[.Neo]

It is fact that the Metro design language works on the desktop, due to the Zune software. It was just my opinion that it looks beautiful.

Using that logic everything developers can translate in stable code would "work" on the desktop.

[fix-this!]

Your opinion is fact now?

you cannot argue or talk sensibly with wp7 fanboys. ive learned that. just because they like looking at a wall of tiles does not mean everybody else will. IMO microsoft is taking a huge gamble with this new design. i can easily see windows 7 being the new xp as many users will not upgrade for 5+ years.

[Calum Veteran]

Oh the irony.

There is no irony. You posted a reply that made no sense.

I'm not the one making assumptions of success based on subjective effectiveness over polar form-factors.

Neither am I. I suggest you actually read my posts. I implied that I will find the live tiles in Windows 8 useful because I find the live tiles in Windows Phone useful. If I suggested that I may find the search function in Windows 8 useful because I find the search function in Windows Phone useful, would you still attempt to erroneously ridicule me?

But okay, clearly you're completely ignorant and naive when it comes to UI design, and are incapable of anything else but parroting gimmicks and apologies.

Yet I'm a designer and developer who designs user interfaces. What do you do? Your accusation makes absolutely no sense, and is completely unfounded.

It's funny because earlier you rejected the notion of the start screen being the same UI crammed onto the desktop, but now you unintentionally confirm it. Hilarious.

Again, you have a problem understanding my posts. Is it something to do with your level of English, or are you just purposely ignoring the majority of my posts' content? The Start Screen on Windows 8 is somewhat different to the Start Screen on Windows Phone; likewise, the live tiles are somewhat different on both platforms. How is that hard for you to understand? Due to those differences, the Start Screen on Windows 8 is not the same Start Screen crammed onto the desktop as that which is on Windows Phone. Would you like me to go into more detail and explain this further so you finally understand and stop posting idiotic, erroneous responses?

i know your a mod but it's your opinion and no you did NOT correct me as no ones opinion can be wrong. im glad you like metro but many of us do not.

Me being a moderator has nothing to do with whether a post can be construed as an opinion or not; I'm a member here just like you. It was an opinion in terms of me finding it beautiful, but the fact the Metro design language works well on the desktop cannot be disputed because the Zune software is completely usable. Usability is not something that can be an opinion; it is a fact. You may not like the Metro design language, but that doesn't make it any less usable.

Using that logic everything developers can translate in stable code would "work" on the desktop.

No, it wouldn't. Software has to be usable for it to work on the desktop. I could write stable code, but design an interface that isn't usable. Software has to be usable, and no one can reasonably deny that the Zune software is usable.

you cannot argue or talk sensibly with wp7 fanboys. ive learned that. just because they like looking at a wall of tiles does not mean everybody else will. IMO microsoft is taking a huge gamble with this new design. i can easily see windows 7 being the new xp as many users will not upgrade for 5+ years.

I am not a Windows Phone fanboy :rolleyes: I simply like to use Windows Phone. I've said many times that I can understand why some people don't like it. Why don't you try reading my posts before making ridiculous, unfounded accusations?

[Athernar]

There is no irony. You posted a reply that made no sense.

;)

Neither am I. I suggest you actually read my posts. I implied that I will find the live tiles in Windows 8 useful because I find the live tiles in Windows Phone useful. If I suggested that I may find the search function in Windows 8 useful because I find the search function in Windows Phone useful, would you still attempt to erroneously ridicule me?

Yes, I would. Because the fact you think a generic concept such as Search is similar to UI widget such as Tiles is laughable.

Yet I'm a designer and developer who designs user interfaces. What do you do? Your accusation makes absolutely no sense, and is completely unfounded.

Everyone is a designer these days. :laugh:

I'm a web developer if you must know. Not that your attempt at a strawman has any relevance mind you.

Again, you have a problem understanding my posts. Is it something to do with your level of English, or are you just purposely ignoring the majority of my posts' content? The Start Screen on Windows 8 is somewhat different to the Start Screen on Windows Phone; likewise, the live tiles are somewhat different on both platforms. How is that hard for you to understand? Due to those differences, the Start Screen on Windows 8 is not the same Start Screen crammed onto the desktop as that which is on Windows Phone. Would you like me to go into more detail and explain this further so you finally understand and stop posting idiotic, erroneous responses?

"Somewhat different" :rofl:

So if they're only "somewhat" difference, then they're obviously not "all that" different; so back to the original point of "why are they trying to to reuse a phone UI for the desktop".

Do you disagree that the WP7 UI is specifically tailored to compensate for the relative lack of screen real estate in a mobile form factor?

[KingCrimson]

Of course Windows 8 looks to be a radical departure, but why is that a bad thing? IT's about time some company moved the desktop UI paradigm into the 21st century!

[TheLegendOfMart]

Of course Windows 8 looks to be a radical departure, but why is that a bad thing? IT's about time some company moved the desktop UI paradigm into the 21st century!

Its not a radical departure, its just a Tablet UI being forced onto desktop users for sake of parity between platforms.

[Jan Veteran]

How is it being forced onto users? You don't have to use it AND you have the option to disable it.

[KingCrimson]

Its not a radical departure, its just a Tablet UI being forced onto desktop users for sake of parity between platforms.

Guess what? You can still open up Windows Explorer, MS Office is still in Aero UI. It's just that MOST apps will be Zune-like.

How is it being forced onto users? You don't have to use it AND you have the option to disable it.

QFT. Nobody is making him buy Windows 8!

[TheLegendOfMart]

How is it being forced onto users? You don't have to use it AND you have the option to disable it.

Because its there by default. I know you CAN disable it but because its there developers will code applications that are geared towards the start screen, its not as simple as "omg you can disable it ffs".

Guess what? You can still open up Windows Explorer, MS Office is still in Aero UI. It's just that MOST apps will be Zune-like.

QFT. Nobody is making him buy Windows 8!

Exactly, and all those people who dont want Zune like apps are screwed for the sake of the idiotic iPad generation.

I agree no one is making me buy it but eventually i will HAVE to buy it if i want to keep using Windows, support will eventually stop and Windows 7 will eventually be phased out because of this transition over to more tablet like UI and i will lose functionality because im not using the latest OS.

I wish people would stop talking to me like im some sort of idiot, i am concerned that a whole lot of people are going to be shoved to one side for the sake of parity.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Yes, I would. Because the fact you think a generic concept such as Search is similar to UI widget such as Tiles is laughable.

[. . .]

It appears you still don't understand my position on this. The tiles are different on each platform; they look different and display different amounts of information. Due to that, I'm not looking at the tiles themselves; I'm looking at the concept. The concept, the feature, the notion of a "live tile" feature. The search feature is a feature, and the live tile feature is a feature. The search feature also has a user interface, but as with the live tile concept, I'm not looking at the user interface; I'm discussing the feature and its usefulness.

I'm a web developer if you must know. Not that your attempt at a strawman has any relevance mind you.

What attempt at a strawman? You erroneously claimed I'm naive in regard to user interface design, so I informed you I'm a designer.

"Somewhat different" :rofl:

So if they're only "somewhat" difference, then they're obviously not "all that" different; so back to the original point of "why are they trying to to reuse a phone UI for the desktop".

:rolleyes: Please, at least try to understand what I'm posting. I am speaking English after all. It would help if you've seen the user interfaces of both Windows 8 and Windows Phone. I assume you haven't because you're erroneously claiming Microsoft are trying to reuse a phone user interface on a desktop operating system :blink: Please, take a look at the user interfaces of both Start Screens. When you do, you'll realise that the user interface of the Windows 8 Start Screen is different enough to the user interface of the Windows Phone Start Screen in order for it to be usable on a desktop PC.

Do you disagree that the WP7 UI is specifically tailored to compensate for the relative lack of screen real estate in a mobile form factor?

No, I don't; I agree with that. Just like I agree that the interface of the Windows 8 Start Screen is specifically tailored to scale well, be usable, and be enjoyable to use on all of the screen sizes it supports. The two user interfaces are different. If you do not understand that, then you're possibly beyond help.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Just because the tiles can show more information because its on a bigger screen doesnt mean its tailored to being used on a desktop computer, it just means that the UI has been ADAPTED to use on the desktop, its still awkward and not as intuitive to use.

[KingCrimson]

Because its there by default. I know you CAN disable it but because its there developers will code applications that are geared towards the start screen, its not as simple as "omg you can disable it ffs".

Exactly, and all those people who dont want Zune like apps are screwed for the sake of the idiotic iPad generation.

I agree no one is making me buy it but eventually i will HAVE to buy it if i want to keep using Windows, support will eventually stop and Windows 7 will eventually be phased out because of this transition over to more tablet like UI and i will lose functionality because im not using the latest OS.

I wish people would stop talking to me like im some sort of idiot, i am concerned that a whole lot of people are going to be shoved to one side for the sake of parity.

Microsoft is ending Windows 7 support by 2015. Windows 9 will be out by then and who knows what that's going to be.

Just because the tiles can show more information because its on a bigger screen doesnt mean its tailored to being used on a desktop computer, it just means that the UI has been ADAPTED to use on the desktop, its still awkward and not as intuitive to use.

None of us really know what the full Windows 8 experience will be. That demo was too short and Windows 8 is not even in beta yet.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Microsoft is ending Windows 7 support by 2015. Windows 9 will be out by then and who knows what that's going to be.

Thats not my point, i dont know how much simpler i can say it.

The Start Screen is going to be default, thus because its default developers are going to change their roadmap to take advantage of this Start Screen, thus if i dont buy Windows 8 im going to miss out on functionality because they have gone in this Tablet UI direction.

I like how you ignore the meat of my argument and just pick up on the life cycle of the OS.

[KingCrimson]

Thats not my point, i dont know how much simpler i can say it.

The Start Screen is going to be default, thus because its default developers are going to change their roadmap to take advantage of this Start Screen, thus if i dont buy Windows 8 im going to miss out on functionality because they have gone in this Tablet UI direction.

I like how you ignore the meat of my argument and just pick up on the life cycle of the OS.

Ubuntu awaits you.