Lets hear it! Iimmersive UI (Start Panel) in Windows 8 (Desktop) Good?

[+Warwagon MVC]

How about power user?

[Ambroos]

Many people forget that after all, unlike a smartphone OS, Windows is mostly a platform to run other applications on. Nobody really cared about most of the software that came with Windows so far, and I won't care much about Windows 8 and the new stuff either. What I don't like, however, is how the Metro UI works for desktop users with mouse and keyboard, or even worse, touchpad users. You just have to cover a much too large distance as it is now. I hope that experience will be better in the beta.

I will probably be disabling the new start screen in any way that I can, anyway. Windows 7 is the greatest OS for multitasking (especially on laptops) ever made in my opinion. You have no idea how fast I am switching between applications with the Winkey+number shortcuts (which are great since you remember them, unlike task switching with Immersive). I've been moving away from using the mouse as much as possible with Windows 7 since it interrupts my workflow and is quite slow, and with Windows 8 I fear Microsoft will almost be forcing mouse use for most tasks. And I don't like that.

It's just not a good thing that Microsoft is trying to make a rock solid OS (to run other desktop software on) into a tablet/mobile-like ecosystem with a Windows App Store and this new fullscreen app style. As an almost completely seperate software kit, or as a default skin that can be disabled completely, sure, why not, sounds great. As a primary upgrade to Windows 7 without the ability to disable the Immersive UI, a big, big no.

[djdanster]

Why not have an option to turn the interface on or off in the installation? And then the user can turn it on/off in the control panel with a restart of course ;)

[~Johnny]

Why not have an option to turn the interface on or off in the installation? And then the user can turn it on/off in the control panel with a restart of course ;)

Because too many people would turn it off without giving it a chance. Like the Ribbon before it, Microsoft are of the opinion that the best way to get it out there is make it the only option. They believe they've made the right choice - and they do have some idea what they're doing. After all, they're a business, and they run Windows. All their programmers are power-users and employees. They know what Windows need to have in it to cater to those users too - they are those users.

[V23]

Why not have an option to turn the interface on or off in the installation? And then the user can turn it on/off in the control panel with a restart of course ;)

Because people are afraid of change and will just turn it off because it's unfamiliar, without giving it a proper chance. I can just imagine in 10-20 years people will still be clutching to their familiar and beloved traditional desktop layout.

[Detection]

Because people are afraid of change and will just turn it off because it's unfamiliar, without giving it a proper chance. I can just imagine in 10-20 years people will still be clutching to their familiar and beloved traditional desktop layout.

Because it works.

It not anything to do with being afraid of change, there is "change" and there is going backwards.

The new UI does not make things faster or easier in ANY way at all. It does not belong on a non-touchscreen PC in any form.

The layout of the current Windows desktop is set out to get you where you want to be in as few clicks as possible, there is nothing wrong with it.

You think if they suddenly decided to build cars with the drivers seat facing backwards and wheels on the roof, people should still "Give it a chance" ?

Cars have remained more or less the same layout since the beginning, why? Because it is the best design and easiest way to drive them

[~Johnny]

The new UI does not make things faster or easier in ANY way at all. It does not belong on a non-touchscreen PC in any form.

Frankly it does. Being able to organise by start menu show I want it - and have over 65+ programs on my start menu accessible as soon as I open it, grouped and displayed in MY order - is a lot better than before. They're not cluttered or squashed into a tiny little corner - they're nice a spread out, clearly visible and easy to fling my mouse over too and click - I don't have to be careful and pay attention to hitting small hit targets hidden inside start menu folders. And that's without counting any benefits brought by Immersive applications with live tiles, and ignoring all Immersive applications. Just from the start menu itself, things are easier.

Certainly on the Live Tiles side - I'll leave you to gauge that for yourself when actual applications you might be interested in actually implement them, but from my experience with Windows Phone and my own Windows 8 development, they're also going to make information consumption quicker for most people.

[Detection]

Frankly it does. Being able to organise by start menu show I want it - and have over 65+ programs on my start menu accessible as soon as I open it, grouped and displayed in MY order - is a lot better than before. They're not cluttered or squashed into a tiny little corner - they're nice a spread out, clearly visible and easy to fling my mouse over too and click - I don't have to be careful and pay attention to hitting small hit targets hidden inside start menu folders. And that's without counting any benefits brought by Immersive applications with live tiles, and ignoring all Immersive applications. Just from the start menu itself, things are easier.

Certainly on the Live Tiles side - I'll leave you to gauge that for yourself when actual applications you might be interested in actually implement them, but from my experience with Windows Phone and my own Windows 8 development, they're also going to make information consumption quicker for most people.

I have hundreds of programs installed and can open them as quick as two clicks with Windows 7, people who regularly visit the technical side of windows such as device manager, control panel, disk management, etc etc are forced to play with a great big childrens colouring book to get there, and when we do eventually get there, you find that this amazing new UI has to drop back to the Windows 7 UI to open those settings anyway.

It is a great big layer of time wasting nonsense imo

MS Concentrate on optimizing the Windows code, the UI is fine

[~Johnny]

I have hundreds of programs installed and can open them as quick as two clicks with Windows 7, people who regularly visit the technical side of windows such as device manager, control panel, disk management, etc etc are forced to play with a great big childrens colouring book to get there, and when we do eventually get there, you find that this amazing new UI has to drop back to the Windows 7 UI to open those settings anyway.

It is a great big layer of time wasting nonsense imo

MS Concentrate on optimizing the Windows code, the UI is fine

For you, you'll still be able to open your stuff in two clicks.

However, most the computing world aren't you. For most of them, this start menu is going to make things easier after they've got over the initial period of change. It's bigger, it's more personal, it's more organised. Most lay-computer users don't use keyboard shortcuts or pin stuff, most of them rely on the start menu to actually start things for them - and for them - and myself, this is a great change.

To add to that, you don't have to play with much of anything to get to those places. You can have device manager, disk management and other admin tools pinned in your start menu, front and centre.

Also, for reference:

Start Menu

Childrens colouring book.

Comparison not valid. If wish your start screen to be a sea of colour you can do so. If you wish it to be refined, you can do so. And yet either way, it's still ordered, organised and sharp. Microsoft Bob is the closest OS you could relate to a colouring book.

[Detection]

Also, for reference:

Start Menu

Childrens colouring book.

Comparison not valid. If wish your start screen to be a sea of colour you can do so. If you wish it to be refined, you can do so. And yet either way, it's still ordered, organised and sharp. Microsoft Bob is the closest OS you could relate to a colouring book.

You just make my point stronger, comparison very valid.

Metro UI for tablets and children = win

For the majority of members of this forum and many other tech sites, it is an unnecessary layer that will be disabled in 90% of cases

If I had a touchscreen on my laptop, I might use the Metro UI, I think that is about the only scenario I could see it being useful

[techguy77]

MS needs to fire whole design team along with Steve Ballmer cause they have no idea what they are doing.

[Dot Matrix]

MS needs to fire whole design team along with Steve Ballmer cause they have no idea what they are doing.

:laugh:

Sorry, I can't help but laugh at that. Metro happens to be the most innovating thing in computing that I've seen in a while.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Maybe when it comes out by some grace of god i'll actually like it on the desktop. I'm just not optimistic.

[Chris123NT]

I'll give it another whirl when the beta, oh wait sorry, "CONSUMER PREVIEW" comes out, but I'm not holding my breath for the experience to be any better.

[Vice]

:laugh:

Sorry, I can't help but laugh at that. Metro happens to be the most innovating thing in computing that I've seen in a while.

Yeah making large squares. Some real innovation there. :huh:

I wonder where they got the idea hmmm

[techguy77]

Yeah making large squares. Some real innovation there. :huh:

I wonder where they got the idea hmmm

Hahah the best thing i read on Neowin

[Zain Adeel]

Yeah making large squares. Some real innovation there. :huh:

I wonder where they got the idea hmmm

Hahah the best thing i read on Neowin

Yea...

That is why they are winning all the most innovating UI design awards everywhere.

[PGHammer]

Many people forget that after all, unlike a smartphone OS, Windows is mostly a platform to run other applications on. Nobody really cared about most of the software that came with Windows so far, and I won't care much about Windows 8 and the new stuff either. What I don't like, however, is how the Metro UI works for desktop users with mouse and keyboard, or even worse, touchpad users. You just have to cover a much too large distance as it is now. I hope that experience will be better in the beta.

I will probably be disabling the new start screen in any way that I can, anyway. Windows 7 is the greatest OS for multitasking (especially on laptops) ever made in my opinion. You have no idea how fast I am switching between applications with the Winkey+number shortcuts (which are great since you remember them, unlike task switching with Immersive). I've been moving away from using the mouse as much as possible with Windows 7 since it interrupts my workflow and is quite slow, and with Windows 8 I fear Microsoft will almost be forcing mouse use for most tasks. And I don't like that.

It's just not a good thing that Microsoft is trying to make a rock solid OS (to run other desktop software on) into a tablet/mobile-like ecosystem with a Windows App Store and this new fullscreen app style. As an almost completely seperate software kit, or as a default skin that can be disabled completely, sure, why not, sounds great. As a primary upgrade to Windows 7 without the ability to disable the Immersive UI, a big, big no.

One major facet of my thrashing of the Developer Preview has been, in fact, traditional/legacy-application (and game) running, for the simple reality that there won't be many Metro applications and games initially.

Actually, I use the mouse *less* with the Developer Preview than I do with Windows 7 - and this is on a desktop without a touch device. (I can hear it now from a lot of the detractors - "Huh? Less?")

I use it less because I use more of the long-underused (but amazingly well-documented) pre-WDP WinKey shortcuts combined with features common among the WDP, 7, even Vista and XP.

My most leveraged keyboard shortcut (and one that's been in Windows since Windows 3.11 (both the original and Windows for Workgroups), when the Windows keyboards launched) is WinKey+R - it brings up the Run box (in every version of Windows - in Windows 3.x/NT 3.x, the Run box it brings up is in Program Manager). It is a very old trick - as I just pointed out, and have before, it's been in Windows for decades - all it requires is the presence of a Windows-logo key. (Every virtual keyboard for Windows retains this key - so does every physical keyboard for any Windows PC.) The voluminous documentation of *all* the Windows-key shortcuts that predate the WDP can be found easily online, using your search engine of choice - from Google to Baidu to Bing. In fact, the WDP adds several *new* Windows-logo-key-leveraging shortcuts (primarily related to either Immersive applications or general Immersive housekeeping) - however, if you run mostly traditional (non-Immersive/Metro) applications, you won't use them much.

Here's a rather surprising factoid about comparing the Windows 7 UI and Metro - a lot of the things that the detractors say that they miss about the traditional UI is stuff that is mouse-accessible - in addition to being keyboard-shortcut-accessible; in fact, because it's already on-screen, it can be mouse-accessed easier (with the traditional UI) as opposed to dredging the unreliability of old-fashioned brain-cell memory for the proper WinKey shortcut. In other words, if you are used to doing things the same way - with a mouse - the traditional UI has a lot to offer. However, with that said, Metro - if anything - can actually wean folks away from *mouse reliance* - especially in situations where mice or other pointing devices are not always a good thing (portable computers where there's literally no space for a pointing device).

[Vice]

Yea...

That is why they are winning all the most innovating UI design awards everywhere.

Oh Windows 8 has won awards before being released? Amazing. Metro on a Phone doesn't count. It's on a Phone. Using that on a desktop is the whole reason this thread even exists. People disagree about the Metro UI being used on PC's not on Phones.

[CentralDogma]

It will be a big mistake if Windows 8 launches with Metro as the default start menu on desktops.

[Zain Adeel]

As a serious reply.

I am myself a power user. I will be using the desktop mode most of the time. Or should i say correctly, the DESKTOP APP.

My only... and only little concern is that i want a search bar in desktop app. A seperate search bar that will only search stuff within the desktop.

I will ultimately download a 3rdparty search app. So that isnt a big problem. But its something microsoft should supply with the OS. I have presented some concepts before here. And they allow a very intuitive way of introducing such a search bar in the desktop app.

This matter aside. I dont understand why all you so called power users are crying about the start screen. Is it gonna be hard pressing those big rectangles with a mouse? Is it going to take so much time moving the mouse to the other ends of the screen to lauch an app in the start screen? Will it add up so much that you get muscle fatigue? Whats the crying about?

I dont like change myself. But. I have learnt with experience that people accept change when it is in some minor form forced on them or taught to them by making them use it for a while.

I dont like the fact that we wont have a start menu anymore. But. knowing so. Instead of crying about it for the whole year till windows 8 launches, i am thinking about how will i make the best use of start screen to improve my productivity. And well. It will actually be a game changer.

There are times when i refresh many pages a day knowing no new news will be there as ive already read everything. Well now i can have all the RSS on the start screen so i dont need to lauch those pages. I fire up facebook to see for updates every now and then and well guess what? That wont be necessary with windows 8. The Facebook app will show everything on the BIG FAT RECTANGLE!!!. Thats why it is FAT!. It will show stuff we open apps for most of the time. I wont need to fire up WLM to see whos online. I will be able to pin my favorite contacts right on the START SCREEN.

And when i am done consuming. I will lauch the desktop app and get back to work. Do you know what will happen due to this? The random time i waste in desktop will be cut in more than half by using apps for consuming and this way i can make sure i am most productive when i launch the Desktop App.

And all of my app changes or updates will automatically sync to my Windows 8 tablet. So when im on the go. I have all my data up to date on that device. How about that for intergrated OS? And next year if they can add this to WP8 and the Next Xbox, we will have all our Microsoft devices in sync and connected perfectly. This will be the best promotion for BING and LIVE services. So from MSs point of view. This will be a game changer if they can just convince people to give it a damn try. Just like they had to do with Vista.

[+virtorio MVC]

:laugh:

Sorry, I can't help but laugh at that. Metro happens to be the most innovating thing in computing that I've seen in a while.

Now that made me laugh, and I'm not big on laughing.

That is why they are winning all the most innovating UI design awards everywhere.

Such as? And how many of those awards relate to Metro on the desktop (not on a tablet/phone - a place where Metro is genuinely great).

[PGHammer]

None of that is reason for Business to move to it.

Businesses - in particular enterprises - won't move much to Windows 8 *anyway* - the default UI, if there is one, will be utterly irrelevant.

There are three factors involved when a business (of any size) evaluates upgrading part, most, or all, of the desktops in the company to a new OS (even when it's just a new version of the existing OS).

1. Hardware replacement/upgrade costs - what hardware changes will the upgraded OS require? (This has been a major issue in Windows-version upgrades.)

2. Software upgrade costs. (When it comes to line-of-business applications - most of which, in the case of enterprises, are, in fact, customized specifically for that enterprise - this can, in fact, force a planned upgrade to stall, if not halt altogether if this cost is too high - I've been in an enterprise where a planned upgrade - from NT4WS to Windows 2000 - stalled for six months due to a single DLL in a line-of-business application that had to be upgraded.)

3. Training and other miscellaneous costs (including security). This expense has gone up year over year simply due to increased threats in terms of enterprise IT security - no enterprise wants an OS upgrade to make things worse.

The few enterprises that DO move to Windows 8 will be largely those that didn't - for whatever reason - move to Windows 7, and have an OS upgrade planned (largely due to purchases of new/replacement hardware). (However, there won't be many of those - simply because the pressure on IT budgets will if anything go up, not down.) The majority of enterprises, however, will largely pass - for the same reasons that 7 has been largely passed over in enterprises - not in the budget.

[Snake89]

the huge downfall of windows 8 metro UI for me is that i can't do any heavy mutli-tasking that i can do now.

btw, i hate tabbing. :)

[Dot Matrix]

Oh Windows 8 has won awards before being released? Amazing. Metro on a Phone doesn't count. It's on a Phone. Using that on a desktop is the whole reason this thread even exists. People disagree about the Metro UI being used on PC's not on Phones.

How is it any different that what we have now? There's tiles instead of icons. Other than that, what's changed that people hate so much?

Those tiles now present information to you without even having to open it up. Great step forward over having a cluttered desktop with static icons. It's wasted space that Microsoft is trying to turn into something useful and beneficial to the user.