Lets hear it! Iimmersive UI (Start Panel) in Windows 8 (Desktop) Good?

[~Johnny]

So, tell me what these new apps will do that current apps can't? I love the aesthetic of Metro but as a window management system (which it actually is not because there are no windows to manage, only tiles and screens), there are only limitations created. The only advantage of Metro that I can see at this point is full screen apps which could have been implemented just as well with a standard desktop (as Apple has already proven).

The only good I can imagine coming out of this is a more unified desktop with apps that actually all fit side by side in a way that makes sense visually and with their usability. That can't happen until the standard desktop is killed though.

One main thing they'll all be able to do over current apps is really tight OS integration through the WinRT API's.

Every app will be able to register itself and expose it's own custom search functions in the search pane, which the user can active at any time, in any app, without leaving what they're doing using the search charm, with minimal code on the programmers side.

Every app can also do a similar thing for registering itself as a platform to share or publish or handle content.

And every app can in just, in a very tiny amount of code, push content over DNLA with minimal effort using Metro's sidepane.

They can also register themselves in the new standard file open dialog as a destination for opening files (great for web services)

And of course, they can all pin and animate and update custom tiles to help a user make their start screen more personal. (Though these examples aren't using proper apps, so they're not greatly representative of the final vision)

It actually really does take the meaning of the word "Immersive" quite literally. All these apps can very deeply link themselves quite immersively with the OS. These features are largely just powerful framework features of WinRT - but WinRT was designed exclusively for these Metro app, and is the underpinning of the whole Metro experience. You can't access them otherwise, and they're what helps add to immersion. Once all the apps are there and playing nice with each other, it'll be a very different experience. But people are going to have to adjust to a different workflow. I'm also just scratching the surface of the most immediately user visible features outside of the design language. I'm sure I'll come up with a lot more once I'm done sifting through this mass of documentation and samples and hundreds of BUILD sessions to get through :p (The fact that BUILD is so insanely packed with sessions highlights how much is new, and how important developers are to the actual Metro Experience).

From a programming standpoint, the framework is also going to encourage more performant and better looking, visually consistent apps, largely in thanks to the plethora of well done controls and templates, design documentation and help, and a major focus on an asynchronous programming model, which should help give the apps the appearance of being far more responsive.

Obviously, developers COULD try and replicate this with exisiting tools and programming models, but it's going to take a lot of effort - the WinRT framework makes faster and easier for everyone to fit in.

[Fourjays Veteran]

I love the aesthetic of Metro but as a window management system

I actually think this is why a lot of people dislike it. They are viewing it as a fancy start menu, a window management system, an app like WMC or an OS for phones. I thought along similar lines at first but then I read this article which made me realise it isn't anything like that. It is a whole design concept and providing Microsoft can do it justice it will really reinvigorate the PC in the same way Web 2.0 did the Internet.

Having said that, I am disappointed with what I have seen so far. Not because it is Metro but because the more I read about it the more it seems to be heading in a bizarre half-Metro, half-Aero direction.

[cacoe]

I actually think this is why a lot of people dislike it. They are viewing it as a fancy start menu, a window management system, an app like WMC or an OS for phones. I thought along similar lines at first but then I read this article which made me realise it isn't anything like that. It is a whole design concept and providing Microsoft can do it justice it will really reinvigorate the PC in the same way Web 2.0 did the Internet.

Having said that, I am disappointed with what I have seen so far. Not because it is Metro but because the more I read about it the more it seems to be heading in a bizarre half-Metro, half-Aero direction.

Alright, I'll reword that sentence.

"Metro's method of managing multiple applications at the same time..."

[svnO.o]

I like it but it still feels rough around the edges. Not being able to close immersive-UI apps the traditional way and having them build in up the tab-cycle is annoying. I haven't got to test multi-monitor functionality as I don't have it as a primary OS but I'm hoping MS will put more efforts into window management, organization, and features for the power user. Something like "mission control" (on OSX) with multiple virtual desktops and ways to manage/organize windows across those virtual desktops would be nice. That and fully adjustable task bars on every monitor (using display fusion I found 1 across the top on my primary screen and 2 1080 screens in portrait with auto-hide taskbars down each side vertically) would be nice. Designating different apps/shortcuts to different screens helps too. Also the ability to save full desktop sessions between reboots would be nice for improved work flow efficiency. Basically I'm just hoping Microsoft doesn't forget power users in their efforts to please the mainstream users.

Also one last thing that annoys me from Windows 7 which I wish was fixed in Windows 8 -- I can double click a window's top or bottom border and get them to expand vertically but why doesn't this work horizontally? For monitors in portrait mode being able to snap windows to the top or bottom would be more useful than right/left as well.

[mrp04]

Not good for a desktop, but AWESOME on my Tablet PC (EliteBook 2740p). I really hope and think they will change the desktop usage.

[Xilo]

MS is trying to merge desktop and tablet/phone behaviors.

Mixing the two different paradigms does not work...

[kawasabi]

Tablet? Yes.

Desktop? NO!

[Lexcyn]

Metro has no place on a desktop PC unless it knows you have a touch screen monitor.

Metro is good for tablets and phones.

I hope this tech preview is not a foreshadowing on things to come.

[Gaffney]

I might use it for my desktop, Metro is designed for Tablets. I've not used it but if it has a system that allows me to see my running apps like the userbar the now I might use it instead of the usual windows look. Most of the time I'm either on the internet, in an app or watching media. I don't really use desktop.

[giantpotato]

Favorites (and the adding thereof) are at the bottom (not the top) in Immersive IE (same thing with the Address bar, tab bar, etc.) - mouse-arrow to the bottom to bring those up.

I don't use the onscreen keyboard (which Windows 7 and Vista also have), since I'm running this on a desktop.

You can mouse-arrow up to close any app (Immersive or not) while in an Immersive app, or use Task Manager.

...

If you know the name of the executable, you can simply run it - as has been the case since 9x and especially NT; Winkey+R still brings up the Run line (that's my method for Office applications, since I know the names of those executables). Don't know the name of the executable? Winkey+Q lets you search all accessible drives for it. Accessible from either the desktop or Immersive.

Some third-party applications (VLC and Firefox, for example) still place shortcuts on the desktop (which is just another application now) - they also gain tiles in Immersive as well.

It's why I've been saying that Immersive is nothing to be scared of, even without touch. There is a high learning curve - that I won't dispute; however, wasn't there the same learning curve when you first moved to a desktop GUI?

When I say favorites, I mean the menu of dozens of websites I have stored in the windows Live cloud using windows live sync, that is normally stored in the Favorites folder. AFAIK Immersive IE does not have access to this. I do not want to pin dozens of unorganized sites to my start page.

The keyboard problem is not really that big of a deal since I have a fingerprint reader and with the new picture-password feature, so once everything is set up properly authentication shouldn't really be a problem.

It's too much hassle to task-manager-close the apps. I didn't try mouse-arrow up (what exactly does that mean?) to close apps, but everything I read says Immersive apps can't be closed normally.

Not all my stuff is locally. It is stored on my server and from what I can tell none of that is indexed, and does not show up when I type it, so the only way to access it right now is through the classic desktop -> HomeGroup -> server shares.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing I just thought of. Under the Immersive UI, it is impossible for me to open a video in one window, while browsing a website at the same time :pinch: My resolution is 1280x800. Time for me to say goodbye to multitasking on my tablet if I stick to the Immersive UI :blink:

[Zain Adeel]

i dont know whats wrong with having the metro UI to start with?

my only requirment from the OLD UI is that it allows a menu in the superbar allowing to search for all the installed apps.

so when i wana open a non metro app i dont have to go to metro search to search for it.

and i can search for it within the normal UI and run it from there.

rest. its the same as win7 and gives all the options. Its a bit snappier.

[Roger H. Veteran]

I think people are talking 2 different topics here.

If you noticed, the topic was renamed to subject "Immersive UI" which is the Start "menu" system - that's not Metro. It was designed using Metro UI design principles however.

So to lessen the confusion - if you are talking about the new START thing then mention ImUI or something. Metro is the way drop down menus look now in the browser or the arrows and the squareness of Windows, tiles and such.

Metro to me is fine, even on the desktop - The immersive UI (without touchscreen) is what doesn't make sense (in it's current form).

[techguy77]

MS lost a touch with reality during Vista development. This Metro crap doesn't surprise me. Luckily there wont be need to update Windows 7 since it will get SP2 with necessary hardware support like USB3 etc. As far as Windows 8 goes...it is going to be another flop and they can afford that i guess. Even with Windows 7 Phone, Metro is piece of crap. I had to return phone because interface was unusable and makes your finger suffer from Carpal tunnel syndrome. Things are so stupid that for everything you have to do 2 clicks extra. Metro UI doesn't make sense for Desktop, infact Desktop and Server do not need Windows 8 at all. They should focus on tablets and phones only since MS lacks there big time. Also i noticed MS is obsessed with HTML5 which is at least important right now. It seems since Bill Gates left company, they have no idea wtf they are doing. They will find themselves in big trouble.

[htcz]

Horrible. Just horrible.

The start menu is just needed in a desktop workarea, more so on a corporate side.

Im seeing this as Windows 2000/ME thing (ignoring that one was stable and the other wasnt): People (that know what they are doing) might end up using the server version of Windows 8 instead of the client.

There is something I think noone has taken account in: Does (Canonical and) Microsoft know something that we dont? They might have made their operating systems knowing in advance that hardware venders in the desktop and laptop area in the upcoming years will only sell touch screen displays....

On the subject, Ribbon in Windows Explorer is another fail. People have commented that it can be turned off, but I simply do not see the option to turn it off and display this:

[Digitalx]

It has it's place just not on desktops or notebooks or at least for me anyway and it should be an installed choice or selective UI on install whether to have it or use it or not ideally along the lines of aero and basic theme.

[+Heartripper Subscriber¹]

Immersive is great, fantastic, but only for tablets. Using it on my laptop i feel limited by it, and i can't disable it without loosing all win8 goodies

[Denis W. Veteran]

I'm not totally sold on the UI just yet. If it were sold on the basis of simplification - not just unification - then I'll be willing to adapt. The Ribbon UI was, in my opinion, a hit right from its introduction as it fixed one problem (toolbar complexity) and offered a nice perk (expose previously hidden commands).

As it stands right now, the simplification is in the court of a new emerging group of users - tablet users - and expecting the sleepy majority to follow its lead. Easy example: restart the machine, from the UI, without having to hit any hardware buttons. Before, it was the Start button > shutdown button. Now it's: WIN+C or move to the lower left corner -> settings -> shutdown button -> shut down.

Or, as another person elsewhere in this forum brought up, quickly switching between currently opened apps via the mouse. Not a problem for the 'classic' desktop. But for modern apps you'd have to throw your mouse on the left edge and click one-by-one through a stack of 'cards' until you find the window you're looking for. A step backwards from the fast and confident switching methods Windows 7 offered.

Finally, I hope they consider building a classic programs list into the Start screen. If they plan to accommodate almost all of today's Windows apps then they can't just assume every application in the Start Menu is the app to look for. They could build in some logic to hide all the "Uninstall XYZ" entries that might show up under the U section in WIN+F > Apps, but there are some suites that have PRODUCT NAME > Editor/Viewer/Change settings listed as individual applications in a program folder.

To really convince me of Windows 8's success would require a huge step forward for the classic desktop experience come beta time, AND a more intuitive method for task switching (KB conventions in Metro) and it will have to be more than the changes made between Windows 7's PDC build and the public beta. To my knowledge the superbar was probably the only major change between 6801 and the 7000 beta build, and even you had an almost fully working superbar hidden away in 6801.

For the purposes of this poll, I'm holding back my vote for the time being.

[FireTalon]

To all the people that keep saying windows 8 is going to flop: I work at a small computer store, as both a salesman and as a technician. I downloaded this preview, and tossed it on a machine out on the floor (not for sale of course) to give people a look at the new os. Since this was done around noon yesterday, I have counted over 500 people right off the bat that loved the new metro interface and the ease of use of it. Most of these people were adults in there late 50's+ I think Microsoft has done something great with this, and cannot wait to see where it goes.

[George P Global Moderator]

^ This, because MS just changes things for no reason right? Even when they give you solid user data they've collected, often from years of usage, as to why they made the change they did it seems most people on tech sites know better than anyone else. I'll let the finished product and the market speak for itself at this point. I'm fine using the new start screen even with just the keyboard now that i've got all the shortcuts worked out, don't even need a mouse really.

As to the "closing of metro apps" I said this in a few other topics, the OS closes metro apps automatically after 30secs if you move away from them. You don't have to close them via task manager or anything, just alt+tab to another app or hit winky+D to go back to the desktop OR just hit the windows key again to take you back to start. The app WILL CLOSE ON IT'S OWN.

[Gigi Buffon]

Yes, absolutely -- Metro UI is FAR better than the classic desktop. I have made up my mind after using the beautiful Metro interface on my laptop for 24 hours. This is by far the best Operating System I have used in my 20 years' experience with computers.

After using this beautiful Metro UI, I can't even think about ever going back to the classic desktop. In fact, I have wiped out my Windows 7 installation (taken a backup of course), and moved to Windows 8 full time. Only thing missing is more apps -- which will make the occasional visits to the classic desktop a rare thing.

And if you look at it, Ubuntu with Unity and OS X Lion have taken similar, if not such a revolutionary step. The classic desktop is on life support. And it's time for geeks to embrace it. Don't let your ego get in the way of learning new ways of doing things.

[Andre S. Veteran]

I don't think we can honestly judge yet. What makes the Metro interface what it is is its apps - without the apps it's quite literally nothing, apart from your user tile and a piece of text that says "Start".

My thoughts exactly. Way too early to judge. At this point what we have is a vision, not a product.

[Vice]

For Microsoft to make Metro the default UI when you start windows up and have the Start Menu bring up Metro even on a desktop system that lacks touch input just says to me that Microsoft doesn't get it.

I upgraded straight away to Vista and I upgraded straight away to Windows 7.. but if this is the way Windows 8 is going then I won't be upgrading. I'll stick with Windows 7.

And I know a bunch of you keep saying this is just for Tablets or this won't be the final UI and that Metro won't be on Desktop systems but you are dead wrong this is the way Microsoft wants it.

I'm not sure how many of you have tried Windows 8 Server (The successor to Windows Server 2008 R2) but guess what? It also includes Metro. And not just a little bit they have actually coded Metro UI's for all the server software the hypervisor, role manager everything. Servers don't even have Displays let alone touch panels. They are marketing Metro as an all-in-one UI solution to everything. XBOX, Windows Phone, Windows Tablet, Windows Notebook, Windows Desktop and Windows Server. If you think this isn't the final thing then you are deluded as Microsoft have gone out of their way not only to confirm it as true countless times, written loads of blog entries about it on MSDN but have gone so far as to rewrite the interfaces for even their server applications to work in Metro.

For years PC Users have lambasted Apple for creating 'dumb' user interfaces that obscure the technical underpinnings of the operating system behind cute and fluffy UI Elements. People would say that Apples OS X is like a toy while the Windows UI was for power users. Well now look what we have. A UI that is marginally more functional than the iPads where you are expected to run one app at a time in full screen and if you don't like it you get this retarded-son of a "Desktop" tile where all the old Desktop centric buttons are trying to drive you back in to Metro kicking and screaming.

Microsoft's UI guys are just absolutely crazy to create this monstrosity. Just to shutdown your computer you have to enter the Metro UI and go through several nested menus. It's really shocking to me that this is the direction Microsoft wants to take things this is not a evolution of computing it is a devolution.

[Xilo]

Yes, absolutely -- Metro UI is FAR better than the classic desktop. I have made up my mind after using the beautiful Metro interface on my laptop for 24 hours. This is by far the best Operating System I have used in my 20 years' experience with computers.

After using this beautiful Metro UI, I can't even think about ever going back to the classic desktop. In fact, I have wiped out my Windows 7 installation (taken a backup of course), and moved to Windows 8 full time. Only thing missing is more apps -- which will make the occasional visits to the classic desktop a rare thing.

And if you look at it, Ubuntu with Unity and OS X Lion have taken similar, if not such a revolutionary step. The classic desktop is on life support. And it's time for geeks to embrace it. Don't let your ego get in the way of learning new ways of doing things.

Sounds like you should ditch your PC and get a Tablet then...

[BajiRav]

^ This, because MS just changes things for no reason right? Even when they give you solid user data they've collected, often from years of usage, as to why they made the change they did it seems most people on tech sites know better than anyone else. I'll let the finished product and the market speak for itself at this point. I'm fine using the new start screen even with just the keyboard now that i've got all the shortcuts worked out, don't even need a mouse really. As to the "closing of metro apps" I said this in a few other topics, the OS closes metro apps automatically after 30secs if you move away from them. You don't have to close them via task manager or anything, just alt+tab to another app or hit winky+D to go back to the desktop OR just hit the windows key again to take you back to start. The app WILL CLOSE ON IT'S OWN.

I guess most complaints can be explained by... (although some are legit but unwarranted at this stage). <br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese

I'm not sure how many of you have tried Windows 8 Server (The successor to Windows Server 2008 R2) but guess what? It also includes Metro. And not just a little bit they have actually coded Metro UI's for all the server software the hypervisor, role manager everything. Servers don't even have Displays let alone touch panels. They are marketing Metro as an all-in-one UI solution to everything. XBOX, Windows Phone, Windows Tablet, Windows Notebook, Windows Desktop and Windows Server. If you think this isn't the final thing then you are deluded as Microsoft have gone out of their way not only to confirm it as true countless times, written loads of blog entries about it on MSDN but have gone so far as to rewrite the interfaces for even their server applications to work in Metro.

1. Powershell is now supposed to be primary interface for the server
2. How do you manage server from a tablet if the UI doesn't support touch?

[rajputwarrior]

For Microsoft to make Metro the default UI when you start windows up and have the Start Menu bring up Metro even on a desktop system that lacks touch input just says to me that Microsoft doesn't get it.

I upgraded straight away to Vista and I upgraded straight away to Windows 7.. but if this is the way Windows 8 is going then I won't be upgrading. I'll stick with Windows 7.

And I know a bunch of you keep saying this is just for Tablets or this won't be the final UI and that Metro won't be on Desktop systems but you are dead wrong this is the way Microsoft wants it.

I'm not sure how many of you have tried Windows 8 Server (The successor to Windows Server 2008 R2) but guess what? It also includes Metro. And not just a little bit they have actually coded Metro UI's for all the server software the hypervisor, role manager everything. Servers don't even have Displays let alone touch panels. They are marketing Metro as an all-in-one UI solution to everything. XBOX, Windows Phone, Windows Tablet, Windows Notebook, Windows Desktop and Windows Server. If you think this isn't the final thing then you are deluded as Microsoft have gone out of their way not only to confirm it as true countless times, written loads of blog entries about it on MSDN but have gone so far as to rewrite the interfaces for even their server applications to work in Metro.

For years PC Users have lambasted Apple for creating 'dumb' user interfaces that obscure the technical underpinnings of the operating system behind cute and fluffy UI Elements. People would say that Apples OS X is like a toy while the Windows UI was for power users. Well now look what we have. A UI that is marginally more functional than the iPads where you are expected to run one app at a time in full screen and if you don't like it you get this retarded-son of a "Desktop" tile where all the old Desktop centric buttons are trying to drive you back in to Metro kicking and screaming.

Microsoft's UI guys are just absolutely crazy to create this monstrosity. Just to shutdown your computer you have to enter the Metro UI and go through several nested menus. It's really shocking to me that this is the direction Microsoft wants to take things this is not a evolution of computing it is a devolution.

agree with the bold part. and if they shove metro on a server OS they must have made a quick road trip to vancouver because they must be smoking some amazing crap to think any IT admin in their right mind would want any of that crap...

also agree with the second part. i thuoght lion dumb things down (iOS features in a desktop OS) but microsoft is taking it on a whole new level.

I effin hate the star panel. if this is the direction they are going, they must really think desktop computer is already pretty much dead.