Southern Patriot Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 But we aren't talking about any of these services, we are talking about fire fighters. Yes, and where in the hell do you expect them to get water to fight the fire? Most fire engines don't carry their own water, they hook a pumper truck up to fire hydrants. Guess what? Unincorporated areas don't have fire hydrants to hook up to. That is the type of infrastructure he was talking about there.We are talking about areas with MAYBE 20 or 30 people per square mile, if that, and sometimes 10-20 miles away from any areas with fire hydrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted December 11, 2011 Member Share Posted December 11, 2011 It's a shame when anyone doesn't have access to basic services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmeunit Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 It's a shame when anyone doesn't have access to basic services. They did have access. They just didn't pay the fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 They did have access. They just didn't pay the fee. Someone said that due to living in a trailer, they weren't qualified and not even given the option to pay for fire protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted December 11, 2011 Member Share Posted December 11, 2011 I live just outside of town and my fees are included with my water bill. No exceptions are allowed. This is the way it should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmeunit Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Someone said that due to living in a trailer, they weren't qualified and not even given the option to pay for fire protection. Where is their source? It has also been mentioned that you CAN get insurance for a trailer, as I do on mine. I don't how than could deny, just for being a trailer. This could very well be a different situation, but not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would also like to point out that most fire dept's have at least one or more tanker trucks so they can take water to areas without hydrants, start fighting right away while the trucks hook up, or fight when the hydrants are frozen and are being thawed. Capacities are usually 1,000 to 5,000 gallons, but it's also possible for some trucks to use found waters; ponds, swimming pools, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 but it's also possible for some trucks to use found waters; ponds, swimming pools, etc. That's pretty much what they do in rural places like this, when possible. And not only that, they have every legal right to drive up onto your lawn, sink a hose into your beautiful artificial pond, and use every last drop. :p They don't even have to replace the water, they'll just send you a check for the grass they tore up with their tires, maybe. I live just outside of town and my fees are included with my water bill. No exceptions are allowed. This is the way it should be done. Living just outside town, and WAY outside town are two different things. These people are most likely happy to have the option, and would complain if forced. Think about it: Why should they be forced to pay for a service that is localized in a municipality they aren't part of? Also, most of these people don't have water bills. They have private wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yes, and where in the hell do you expect them to get water to fight the fire? Most fire engines don't carry their own water, they hook a pumper truck up to fire hydrants. Guess what? Unincorporated areas don't have fire hydrants to hook up to. That is the type of infrastructure he was talking about there.We are talking about areas with MAYBE 20 or 30 people per square mile, if that, and sometimes 10-20 miles away from any areas with fire hydrants. Dont need a fire hydrant to get water. You just need some body of water big enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Dont need a fire hydrant to get water. You just need some body of water big enough. You have OBVIOUSLY never driven cross-country, because if you had, you would realize how ludicrous it is to expect a sizable, natural (and therefore self-replenishing) body of water to always be near, regardless of where you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 To those talking about how all that some people care about is money or calling the city/department greedy for charging for their service, exactly how many fires do you expect them to put out without bringing in any money? Where do you get fire fighting vehicles and equipment that cost no money to purchase or maintain? Charisma 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 You have OBVIOUSLY never driven cross-country, because if you had, you would realize how ludicrous it is to expect a sizable, natural (and therefore self-replenishing) body of water to always be near, regardless of where you live. And you've obviously never been to the upper midwest, especially the Great Lakes states. Dig a hole and you have a well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Dont need a fire hydrant to get water. You just need some body of water big enough. Closest body of water to my parents' house would be a small creek, a little over a quarter mile away. I don't think many fire engines carry that much hose. And you've obviously never been to the upper midwest, especially the Great Lakes states. Dig a hole and you have a well. We were talking in the context of a suitable substitute for a fire hydrant. Sorry, but hooking up to a typical residential well just wouldn't cut it. Hell the water pressure with my parents' well is barely good enough to take a decent shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 And you've obviously never been to the upper midwest, especially the Great Lakes states. Dig a hole and you have a well. Not necessarily good enough, as roadwarrior pointed out, and the US has many more regions then just the upper midwest that are quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Closest body of water to my parents' house would be a small creek, a little over a quarter mile away. I don't think many fire engines carry that much hose. We were talking in the context of a suitable substitute for a fire hydrant. Sorry, but hooking up to a typical residential well just wouldn't cut it. Hell the water pressure with my parents' well is barely good enough to take a decent shower. And really? They wouldn't stop at the small creek before going to the house? That would be dumb. You dont need water pressure if they've got a pump powerful enough to suck the water up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 And really? They wouldn't stop at the small creek before going to the house? That would be dumb. You dont need water pressure if they've got a pump powerful enough to suck the water up. That creek was anecdotal. Not every house has a creek on the way. Surely you're intelligent enough to realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 And really? They wouldn't stop at the small creek before going to the house? That would be dumb. You dont need water pressure if they've got a pump powerful enough to suck the water up. You are doing nothing but showing how totally ignorant you are of how fire trucks (and residential wells in rural areas) work. Most fire trucks don't have water tanks on them, they get their water from a hydrant with a VERY large hose (compared to your typical garden hose). A residential water well would typically be piped directly into the house with nothing for fire truck to attach a hose to. If there is any type of accessible connection near the well at all, it is going to generally be a regular garden hose type faucet. Oh, and my parents' house sits between the local volunteer fire department and the creek, and the only place the creek is near the road is about a mile down the road in the opposite direction. On this map, the red rectangle is the fire station, the green rectangle is my parents' house, and the blue line is the creek (which is deep in the woods, by the way). The thin little blue lines are nothing more than ditches that are usually dry unless it has been raining quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Typical small city dept here has at least 2 tankers of ~3,000 gallons each. Ours has 4 - 5,000 gallon tankers (father in law was the Fire Marshall.) Found water was intended to demnstrat flexibility, and wells here are often 4" and deep. Total civilian uncapped wells in Michigan numbers about 2 million with another 25,000 drilled yearly. Quite a few rural folks install cistern and dry hydrant filled with water in case there's a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Typical small city dept here has at least 2 tankers of ~3,000 gallons each. Ours has 4 - 5,000 gallon tankers (father in law was the Fire Marshall.) That's a city department. A small town or rural volunteer department is lucky to have one at all. I think the department by my parents' house has one (not sure of the size), and a couple of rescue vehicles. If they had a larger fire than that one would handle, they'd be calling in reinforcements from the next closest volunteer department about 6 or 7 miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Around here most rural depts have a tanker. Grass fires, no hydrants/cisterns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusco25 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I do not see how this practice can even be legal in the US.. I think this **** is about to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Twist it this way: Pretend I was driving with no auto insurance one day, then i T-Boned another car in the middle of a street with a Insurance company right there in front of me. I get out of the mangled car, walk in, and ask them for insurance for the accident i was just in. What do you think they would say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArialBlue Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Twist it this way: Pretend I was driving with no auto insurance one day, then i T-Boned another car in the middle of a street with a Insurance company right there in front of me. I get out of the mangled car, walk in, and ask them for insurance for the accident i was just in. What do you think they would say? Driving uninsured is illegal. Not paying your fire protection taxes is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizure1990 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Driving uninsured is illegal. Not paying your fire protection taxes is not. Only liability insurance is mandated. If you're talking about damage insurance specifically, his example is perfect. Hell, even health insurance won't take you if you have certain pre-existing conditions, and to be honest, I think THAT'S just a little bit disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Only liability insurance is mandated. If you're talking about damage insurance specifically, his example is perfect. Hell, even health insurance won't take you if you have certain pre-existing conditions, and to be honest, I think THAT'S just a little bit disturbing. Why's that disturbing? Shouldn't have pre-existing conditions. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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