Doctor under fire after saving woman's life

[DocM]

Mormonism/Jehova's Witnesses are more of a cult than a real Religion,huge difference

You just revealed how little you know about both.

[Memphis]

Sid and DocM, just a question. How would it weigh on your conscience, to let a mother whos baby you just delivered, die, when you had every ability to save her? Would it hurt, or would you be able to shrug it off because of a document? I'd imagine I'd be hurt.

I would feel nothing, I've honored my patients wishes. Same reason I support assisted suicide. The truth is that a patient has a right to refuse care and we are not to make decisions against the patients wishes. That is not only my opinion it large law.

You just revealed how little you know about both.

No he's absolutely right, but our opinions of others beliefs have nothing to do with making sure their right to refuse care is protected.

[Memphis]

For the record their beliefs are ridiculouse and I think its selfish and wrong. That said a patient must always have the right to refuse care.

[DocM]

JW's are non-trinitarian Christian primitivists, of which there are many denominations. LDS is also a Christian primitivist movement at its foundations. Other such groups are the Anabaptists, which includes the Amish, Mennonites etc.

[Growled Member]

If the doctor had not done this them he would have been sued for negligence. You can't win for losing.

[Gotenks98]

JW's are non-trinitarian Christian primitivists, of which there are many denominations. LDS is also a Christian primitivist movement at its foundations. Other such groups are the Anabaptists, which includes the Amish, Mennonites etc.

Sorry but I disagree those 2 along with scientology are about as cult as you can get. One is founded on the belief of what some dude saw in a hat and the other is just completely wacko and so far from what christainity as a whole is really about. Not to mention those 2 are the most annoyingly persistent groups. They probably push more people away from religion with that door to door crap than they actually bring in.

[mokthraka]

I am posting this from the nurses station at work. Ten feet from me is the poster of residence rights saying a patient has the right to refuse care and on the desk is a stack of watchtower publications left by patients. this boils down to the right to refuse care. It must always be honored period. Their is zero excuse for this doctor.

out of curiosity, are you a nurse?

I am posting this from the nurses station at work. Ten feet from me is the poster of residence rights saying a patient has the right to refuse care and on the desk is a stack of watchtower publications left by patients. this boils down to the right to refuse care. It must always be honored period. Their is zero excuse for this doctor.

out of curiosity, are you a nurse?

[PGHammer]

The side where health care isn't a human right.

The conflict predates - by several decades - the HCRA (Obamacare). I personally have such a statement on file - in several places. In Maryland and Virginia (my state of residence and a state in which I spend a lot of time, respectively), such a statement can be honored without getting the doctor in hack. However, in Washington, DC - where I most likely would wind up being treated, due to most of the area's best hospitals being located there *and* it being within thirty miles by helicopter - honoring my sworn affidavit can get the doctor in the dock (minimum five years for "negligence resulting in death" AND revocation of his medical license). And this was in 1988.

Neither civil OR criminal law has to make sense - not even commonsense.

[Vice]

Stupid woman.

[shakey]

I would feel nothing, I've honored my patients wishes. Same reason I support assisted suicide. The truth is that a patient has a right to refuse care and we are not to make decisions against the patients wishes. That is not only my opinion it large law.

Assisted suicide is a totally different issue agian. You don't and wouldn't perform assisted suicide on someone who is perfectly healthy and not in pain. Assisted suicide is normally performed on those who are in a terrible amount of pain, with no real life left in them. This woman still had/has plenty of life in her.

If a mother, with nothing wrong, was in your care, and wished that after she gave birth, you would just kill her.. You wouldn't follow through with it. It would be a down right stupid "right/wish". Just because they want it, doesn't mean they should get or deserve it. People are stupid, and it takes those who , in the face of all that might be wrong, to do the right thing and help, even when it could mean that they themselves may be cast out of the light. That is the burden of being a true hero. You might not get credit, because heros are one thats see what others don't, and act with rightousness when others don't act at all.

And all religions are cults. No point in arguing any other wise. They all force their followers to behave and act in certain ways, and they do so with fear and intimidation. Hell, it even says in the bible, " There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. " Yet the whole premise of worshping is, you either do it or you burn for an eternity. It's all total ass backwards philosophy.

[Eddo89]

If she has written the request, then the doctor probably shouldn't had treated her.

But the doctor is never going to win. To the letter of the law, he probably would be disiciplined as he is essentially going against the wishes of the patient, regardless of how silly the paitent was in the first place. But if he didn't treat her, and she died. Going through his mind over and over again would the guilt of not doing anything despite the fact he can, could easily break a man. I think this is far harder to take than have a patient dying because of magnitude of injury as you had no chance anyway, but to watch a patient die when you know full well you have the ability, can't imagine it.

[HawkMan]

JW's are non-trinitarian Christian primitivists, of which there are many denominations. LDS is also a Christian primitivist movement at its foundations. Other such groups are the Anabaptists, which includes the Amish, Mennonites etc.

There are many Christianity based cults. JW bing one of them.

I'd argue christianity itsel is but...

[shakey]

cult/k?lt/

Noun:

• A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
  

[Memphis]

out of curiosity, are you a nurse?

out of curiosity, are you a nurse?

I just finished my prerequisite and have been an aid for years now, have acceptance pending in some nursing programs.

JW's are non-trinitarian Christian primitivists, of which there are many denominations. LDS is also a Christian primitivist movement at its foundations. Other such groups are the Anabaptists, which includes the Amish, Mennonites etc.

If that's how we are going to view cults then Davidson adventists are just another branch of mennonite protestants.

[Shadrack]

cult/k?lt/

Noun:

• A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
  

I think that Cult carries a connotation that is negative and most folks wouldn't consider Christianity or any of the established world religions (in a general sense) cultish.

But Christianity is a cult (according to MEEEE).

Anyway, its funny how many Christian sects follow the Bible very litterally in some passages and then completely disregard other passages. This is especially a problem with the Book of Levitacus which has some just insane stuff going on it but people still quote passages when they are arguing against homosexuality or what have you.

What do JW's think about the Last Supper if they are against vampirism?

[DocM]

But Christianity is a cult (according to MEEEE)..

What do JW's think about the Last Supper if they are against vampirism

More fundamental lack of knowledge, and "vampirism" has nothing to do with it. It's based on Acts 15:20, 21:25 and similar verses advising Christians to "abstain from blood," This is similar to Kosher and the Noahide Code where slaughtered animals have to be thoroughly bled out before butchering, but taken one step further.

Sacrements: number varies from 2 - 7 by denomination.

Jehivah's Witnesses: symbolic acts commanded by Christ

Most Protestant: symbolic acts commanded by Christ

Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran etc: a means of grace if received with faith.

[Erikas]

If there was a way, I'm sure he would've done it. Currently, he probably is going to loose his job, or even go to jail. :(

And rightly he should. If someone has a written statement to the effect not to give blood it should be honoured at ALL times. The doctor is just a doctor, not God, he cannot decide for himself. There are alternatives to blood transfusion (do a bit of googleing) which Jehovah's Witnesses sugest to hospitals.

Mormonism/Jehova's Witnesses are more of a cult than a real Religion,huge difference

Oh boy, anbother "intelectual" who thinks he knows it all. You don't agree with it or don't know much about it, it must beautomatically a Cult.

[Memphis]

More fundamental lack of knowledge, and "vampirism" has nothing to do with it. It's based on Acts 15:20, 21:25 and similar verses advising Christians to "abstain from blood," This is similar to Kosher and the Noahide Code where slaughtered animals have to be thoroughly bled out before butchering, but taken one step further.

Sacrements: number varies from 2 - 7 by denomination.

Jehivah's Witnesses: symbolic acts commanded by Christ

Most Protestant: symbolic acts commanded by Christ

Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran etc: a means of grace if received with faith.

and yet Jehovah's Whitness are OK with non Kosher meats such as steaks, which is what those verses in acts where actually about. No they are a cult. I have a copy of an Original 1940's International Bible Students Association "Emphatic Diaglotte" (Hard to come by given the church stance on the book) as well as a copy of the NWT which they quite literally lie when they mistranslate the original greek in their rewritten bible (It has also came out that when making the NWT, they wherent guided by any greek language experts and did not have any on the team). I also have hardcopy of the 1920 International Bible Students Association "Millions now living will never die". (Only thing I truely enjoyed in this book was the chapter on zionism) I have studied them in and out, they not only meet the definition of a cult, but they get their predictions to fail every time.

[DocM]

You're making a distinctionh without a difference on Acts, and it sounds like all you found was your own preconceived notions.

King James Bible: ....that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

New International: ....to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood

Young's Literal Translation: ....to abstain from the pollutions of the idols, and the whoredom, and the strangled thing; and the blood

NWT: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.

[Erikas]

and yet Jehovah's Whitness are OK with non Kosher meats such as steaks, which is what those verses in acts where actually about. No they are a cult. I have a copy of an Original 1940's International Bible Students Association "Emphatic Diaglotte" (Hard to come by given the church stance on the book) as well as a copy of the NWT which they quite literally lie when they mistranslate the original greek in their rewritten bible (It has also came out that when making the NWT, they wherent guided by any greek language experts and did not have any on the team). I also have hardcopy of the 1920 International Bible Students Association "Millions now living will never die". (Only thing I truely enjoyed in this book was the chapter on zionism) I have studied them in and out, they not only meet the definition of a cult, but they get their predictions to fail every time.

Yes because you have an "inside" line to all this information. Please refrain from writing about things you know nothing about.

Oh yes, in case you are wondering what I know about it, well my wife is a Jehovah Witness, she was already when I married her, and nothing in what they do or their beliefs makes me consider them a cult.

[Memphis]

Yes because you have an "inside" line to all this information. Please refrain from writing about things you know nothing about.

Oh yes, in case you are wondering what I know about it, well my wife is a Jehovah Witness, she was already when I married her, and nothing in what they do or their beliefs makes me consider them a cult.

Since when was books published by the international Bible Students association and made available on the market an "inside" line. Or that they publicly admitted to not having greek scholars on the NWT translation team? These are provable facts. Why dont you start by responding line by line to the accusations if you wish to go down this route. As for them being a cult, how about the belief that you are tainted if you are friends with people "out of the truth" you can become excommunicated (like my step mother for instrance), or this little gem.

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, ... have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower Sept 1, 1989 page 19.

[Memphis]

You're making a distinctionh without a difference on Acts, and it sounds like all you found was your own preconceived notions.

King James Bible: ....that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

New International: ....to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood

Young's Literal Translation: ....to abstain from the pollutions of the idols, and the whoredom, and the strangled thing; and the blood

NWT: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.

Great, now read verse 21 which makes it clear he is discussing mosaic law, now we refer back Leviticus 17:12 and 14 for the real meaning of the passage. Context includes the verse before and after and what it is referencing. The reference to the strangled refers to non kosher meat, or meat that does not have the blood drained, yet jewhovahs whitnesses allow themselves to eat non kosher meatincluding rare and medium rare meat. Talk about picking and choosing, they disregaurd things in the same verse they are reading.

[DocM]

I think some people reach for excuses to be bigoted, but then some of us are more ecumenical tham others.

[Memphis]

I think some people reach for excuses to be bigoted, but then some of us are more ecumenical tham others.

So you support a unified church while ignoring docterinal differences? Why dont we just throw the bible out then since docterine and scripture doesnt matter. Sorry, the worst evil to ones belief is a refusal to stand for your own beliefs and denounce what you disagree with. Do you also support not criticizing Davidian Adventists? What about the Westboro church, should we not criticize them for the sake of ecumenism? By the way, you failed to respond to my rebuttal to the verses.

[Solid Knight]

Wouldn't an all knowing and forgiving God ... well, forgive her for this, as it was not her fault in anyway?

No. If that was true, God wouldn't have killed off entire populations of people who didn't even know he existed.