Why are people so confused on Win8?

By pack34
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Mentor

iuerg87yerg879e0rg9erugjer

Posted
Posted

windows 8 is going to be a universal support OS on most platforms including now confirmed ARM. That is it, there may be slight differences between PCs, tablets and possibly mobile devices. what people are getting confused about is why the UI is more focused towards the mobile world and leaving the PC guys behind.

Grand Master

TheLegendOfMart

Posted
Posted

Every once in a while I head over to ZDnet and everyone seems so confused on what Windows 8 is, specifically on ARM.

Maybe I'm just ignorant but:

- Win on Arm: Metro tablet similar to your iPads and Androids

- Win on x86: Metro and traditional desktop

No ones confused, we just don't want Metro. Also Windows 8 on ARM will have desktop also.

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

Posted
  • Global Moderator
Posted

There shouldn't be any confusion but keeping the desktop on the ARM version seems to be what some are hung up on. We need more details on that part of things but for the most it's like you say. ARM devices will be tablets while there could be a few x86 as well but not much imo.

Right now MS needs to give more detail on how/if 3rd party devs can even target the desktop after passing some MS cert process or if it will be locked down tight to only limited partners.

Either way it's not like people who buy a tablet with WOA will be thinking about using the desktop much if ever. Hell I think MS kept it in there more for Office apps than anything else. Only time will tell in the end, I'll wait to see what the newest SDK for it will let you do as far as the desktop and ARM are concerned.

Grand Master

George P Global Moderator

Posted
  • Global Moderator
Posted

Honestly the desktop will be on the way out over time. Once you guys see the systray changed to something else then you'll know. Probably in Win9 next.

  • Muhammad Farrukh
  • Like 1
Grand Master

Zain Adeel

Posted
Posted

I want the start screen everywhere!

from my TV to my mobile! i already have that :D WP7 FTW..

but imagine a TV a gaming console.. all with that design. So u know how everything in ur house works. Kinect or Bing speech with TellMe.

Embrace the future kids.

Although yes desktop is here to stay for windows 8. Till we find a way to port heavy apps to metro design language.

  • subcld and ffMathy
  • Like 2
Mentor

pack34

Posted
  • Author
Posted

There shouldn't be any confusion but keeping the desktop on the ARM version seems to be what some are hung up on. We need more details on that part of things but for the most it's like you say. ARM devices will be tablets while there could be a few x86 as well but not much imo.

Right now MS needs to give more detail on how/if 3rd party devs can even target the desktop after passing some MS cert process or if it will be locked down tight to only limited partners.

Either way it's not like people who buy a tablet with WOA will be thinking about using the desktop much if ever. Hell I think MS kept it in there more for Office apps than anything else. Only time will tell in the end, I'll wait to see what the newest SDK for it will let you do as far as the desktop and ARM are concerned.

The answer is no. There will be no third party applications on desktop ARM. If you want third party desktop apps then you want an x86 device.

Collaborator

Cereal Bawks

Posted
Posted

Everyone getting their panties in a twist over that would practically amount to simply a different start menu. Pin your crap to the start menu and/or put shortcuts on your desktop, and you'll never have to see any Metro beyond boot-up and occasionally searching for files.

Grand Master

+Frank B. Subscriber²

Posted
  • Subscriber²
Posted

What some of you fail to see is how Windows 8 is Microsoft's first step into the post-PC era.

Look at the market. PC sales are slowing down while smartphones and tablets are gaining traction. Then think back to CES and some of the Ultrabook concepts on display.

It's more than obvious that Microsoft considers the traditional desktop PC a dying breed, to be relegated to a niche market. The Windows desktop is set for the same fate - a second-class citizen for 'power users' and to run what is likely to be the last non-Metro version of Office. I fully expect Office 16 to be a set of immersive apps.

Games? They too can be integrated into the Metro UI. You don't need the Windows desktop for them. Alternatively, just get an Xbox.

Windows 8 is one step towards a unified user experience across Microsoft products. WP7/8, Xbox, soon Windows. It is not aimed at traditionalists, it is aimed at the post-PC crowd who are now busy buying iPads, iPhones and the like.

  • DJ-Light and Jan
  • Like 2
Collaborator

fsX

Posted
Posted

People are confused because Microsoft made the "mistake" of showing off Windows 8 before its release. If they had kept completely quiet until release, people wouldn't speculate so much about Metro and its place on the desktop.

Also, most people are mentally too old and too stupid to understand new things.

Grand Master

Stoffel

Posted
Posted

MS has to make sure it communicates the difference between WOA and Win8 very clearly.

If they manage to do that then they are golden, if they fail we might see a lot of angry and confused people when they buy an WOA tablet and can't use all their favorite Win apps.

But for now let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

I for one am looking really forward to the CP of Win8

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

There shouldn't be any confusion but keeping the desktop on the ARM version seems to be what some are hung up on. We need more details on that part of things but for the most it's like you say. ARM devices will be tablets while there could be a few x86 as well but not much imo.

Right now MS needs to give more detail on how/if 3rd party devs can even target the desktop after passing some MS cert process or if it will be locked down tight to only limited partners.

Either way it's not like people who buy a tablet with WOA will be thinking about using the desktop much if ever. Hell I think MS kept it in there more for Office apps than anything else. Only time will tell in the end, I'll wait to see what the newest SDK for it will let you do as far as the desktop and ARM are concerned.

ARM devices will NOT just be tablets - that's where the confusion

Every once in a while I head over to ZDnet and everyone seems so confused on what Windows 8 is, specifically on ARM.

Maybe I'm just ignorant but:

- Win on Arm: Metro tablet similar to your iPads and Androids

- Win on x86: Metro and traditional desktop

ARM devices won't only be tabvlets/slates; however, I Have only one idea where you got that assumption from - ARM *to date* has only appeared on tablets. (There's a reason for the *tablet-only* appearance of ARM to date - has anyone created an OS for ARM that supports keyboards and mice?)

If you had watched the video that accompanied that rather lengthy blog post, you would have seen both an ARM-based netbook and a docked tablet/slate (similar to the IdeaPad with its dock) in addition to the dead-center ARM tablet. In short, the same formfactors for ARM (except for desktops) as is the case with x86/x64 today.

That mean ARM-based netbooks - with longer (far longer) battery life than the x86/x64 equivalents.

However, there's a massive (depending on your needs) tradeoff when choosing ARM as your default (even with WOA/Windows on ARM) - no Win32 API/applicaiton support. Office for WinRT will be included with ARM-based computers for exactly that reason - the current version of Office won't run on ARM. (The current version of Office *does* run on the WDP today, and will run on Windows 8 Consumer (or later) Preview, and RTM when it ships.)

The common UI is both a point of commonality (the UI of previous *niche* versions of Windows was so wildly different - it had practically zero connection to Windows on the desktop) and a point of practicality - not all ARM formfactors or hardware will support touch - some will be plain-Dick-and-Jane netbooks, with no touch support, standard keyboards, and a pointing device of some sort.

I'd be open to an ARM netbook as an adjunct to my current traditional desktop (which will absolutely positively be upgraded to Windows 8 when it RTMs, and the WDP partition will be replaced with a WCP partition when it becomes available). In answer to the question "Why a netbook, as opposed to a tablet or slate?" has to do with my likely uses for such a netbook (Web browsing, e-mail, and writing/text-entry) and that I *loathe with a passion* virtual keyboards. (It's not unique to Windows - I hate them just as much in Linux distributions and Android - no smartphone I have recommended - and they have all been Android-based - relies on one; they all have physical slide-out keyboards.) Therefore, give me (if ARM) a netbook as an adjunct- powered by WOA - and I'd be a happy camper.

The dual-API nature of Windows 8 on x86/64 means that the WinRT apps developed for ARM will *also* work on x86/64. That is a massive paradigm-breaker - with limited exceptions, apps and games developed for iOS won't run on OS X. Found and downloaded a nice WinRT app or game on your ARM-based tablet/slate/netbook? Take that same app and put it on your x86 Ultrabook. Heck, put it on your *gaming desktop* with Eyefinity or SLI and the extra display(s). WinRT means the only limits are those of the API itself. (No more of the niche-ification and fractuization that is present today.)

There shouldn't be any confusion but keeping the desktop on the ARM version seems to be what some are hung up on. We need more details on that part of things but for the most it's like you say. ARM devices will be tablets while there could be a few x86 as well but not much imo.

Right now MS needs to give more detail on how/if 3rd party devs can even target the desktop after passing some MS cert process or if it will be locked down tight to only limited partners.

Either way it's not like people who buy a tablet with WOA will be thinking about using the desktop much if ever. Hell I think MS kept it in there more for Office apps than anything else. Only time will tell in the end, I'll wait to see what the newest SDK for it will let you do as far as the desktop and ARM are concerned.

ARM devices will NOT just be tablets - that's where the confusion

Every once in a while I head over to ZDnet and everyone seems so confused on what Windows 8 is, specifically on ARM.

Maybe I'm just ignorant but:

- Win on Arm: Metro tablet similar to your iPads and Androids

- Win on x86: Metro and traditional desktop

ARM devices won't only be tabvlets/slates; however, I Have only one idea where you got that assumption from - ARM *to date* has only appeared on tablets. (There's a reason for the *tablet-only* appearance of ARM to date - has anyone created an OS for ARM that supports keyboards and mice?)

If you had watched the video that accompanied that rather lengthy blog post, you would have seen both an ARM-based netbook and a docked tablet/slate (similar to the IdeaPad with its dock) in addition to the dead-center ARM tablet. In short, the same formfactors for ARM (except for desktops) as is the case with x86/x64 today.

That mean ARM-based netbooks - with longer (far longer) battery life than the x86/x64 equivalents.

However, there's a massive (depending on your needs) tradeoff when choosing ARM as your default (even with WOA/Windows on ARM) - no Win32 API/applicaiton support. Office for WinRT will be included with ARM-based computers for exactly that reason - the current version of Office won't run on ARM. (The current version of Office *does* run on the WDP today, and will run on Windows 8 Consumer (or later) Preview, and RTM when it ships.)

The common UI is both a point of commonality (the UI of previous *niche* versions of Windows was so wildly different - it had practically zero connection to Windows on the desktop) and a point of practicality - not all ARM formfactors or hardware will support touch - some will be plain-Dick-and-Jane netbooks, with no touch support, standard keyboards, and a pointing device of some sort.

I'd be open to an ARM netbook as an adjunct to my current traditional desktop (which will absolutely positively be upgraded to Windows 8 when it RTMs, and the WDP partition will be replaced with a WCP partition when it becomes available). In answer to the question "Why a netbook, as opposed to a tablet or slate?" has to do with my likely uses for such a netbook (Web browsing, e-mail, and writing/text-entry) and that I *loathe with a passion* virtual keyboards. (It's not unique to Windows - I hate them just as much in Linux distributions and Android - no smartphone I have recommended - and they have all been Android-based - relies on one; they all have physical slide-out keyboards.) Therefore, give me (if ARM) a netbook as an adjunct- powered by WOA - and I'd be a happy camper.

The dual-API nature of Windows 8 on x86/64 means that the WinRT apps developed for ARM will *also* work on x86/64. That is a massive paradigm-breaker - with limited exceptions, apps and games developed for iOS won't run on OS X. Found and downloaded a nice WinRT app or game on your ARM-based tablet/slate/netbook? Take that same app and put it on your x86 Ultrabook. Heck, put it on your *gaming desktop* with Eyefinity or SLI and the extra display(s). WinRT means the only limits are those of the API itself. (No more of the niche-ification and fractuization that is present today.)

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

What some of you fail to see is how Windows 8 is Microsoft's first step into the post-PC era.

Look at the market. PC sales are slowing down while smartphones and tablets are gaining traction. Then think back to CES and some of the Ultrabook concepts on display.

It's more than obvious that Microsoft considers the traditional desktop PC a dying breed, to be relegated to a niche market. The Windows desktop is set for the same fate - a second-class citizen for 'power users' and to run what is likely to be the last non-Metro version of Office. I fully expect Office 16 to be a set of immersive apps.

Games? They too can be integrated into the Metro UI. You don't need the Windows desktop for them. Alternatively, just get an Xbox.

Windows 8 is one step towards a unified user experience across Microsoft products. WP7/8, Xbox, soon Windows. It is not aimed at traditionalists, it is aimed at the post-PC crowd who are now busy buying iPads, iPhones and the like.

Actually, it's a hedge-bet.

Part of the reason that PC sales are flat (if not declining) is a crappy global economy (consumers) and a business world under horrendous pressure (enterprises). As you pointed out, tablet and slate sales (right now, it's Android and iOS that rule that roost, because Microsoft has had nothing) are up - with price being the entire driving factor. However, it's both a threat - and an opportunity - for Microsoft. Think about a version of Windows with the same look and feel as the Windows we are most familiar with, with the only difference in fact being optimization for the ultra-lower-energy-using tablet/slate CPUs (ARM in particular). However, further up the line (in x86/x64, where we are today), re-engineer Windows to have a similar (if not identical) UI to the lower-energy Windows (which has become WOA) while still having the backward compatibility we have all demanded.

Talk about your one-two punches!

That is what Windows 8 and WOA represent. Unlike iOS, you can take WinRT apps from ARM devices to Windows 8 x86/x64 hardware completely unchanged. Unlike either iOS or Android, the learning curve is zero in migrating from a tablet or slate (or even a netbook - are there Android-based netbooks today?) - the UI is one you largely already know. No matter WHICH way the market goes in the future (whether tablets, slates, and other low-power devices continue their strong sales numbers, or whether the PC makes a comeback as the economy improves) - Microsoft's backside is covered, and the user wins.

Heck, I'm fifty, with an IT past that predates the PC and goes back to IBM Major League Mainframes (speficially, the old System360) and *I* get it.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • The quantum search for Time's origin had an equally mind-boggling conclusion

      By Taliseian · Posted

      It's all wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey....stuff.
    • Flameshot 14.0 Final

      By Copernic · Posted

      Flameshot 14.0 Final by Razvan Serea Flameshot is a free and open-source, cross-platform tool to take screenshots with many built-in features to save you time. Using Flameshot is as simple as launching, dragging the selection box to cover the area you want to capture, making annotations as needed in on-screen and saving the shot to your computer, all with a very simple and straightforward interface. Flameshot allows users to simply upload their screenshots directly to the cloud in order to easily share it with others. You can upload your image directly to Imgur with a single click and share the URL with others. In-app screenshot editing - You can choose to add an arrow mark, highlight text, blur a section (blur or pixelate an area), add a text, draw something, add a rectangular/circular shaped border, add an incrementing counter number, and add a solid color box with Flameshot's built-in editing tools. Command-line interface (CLI) - Flameshot has several commands you can use in the terminal without launching the GUI via a command line interface. The command line interface lets you script Flameshot and use it as the subject of key binds. Flameshot 14.0 release notes: This release brings major improvements to multi-monitor support, fractional scaling support, new capture workflows, and a long list of bug fixes across all platforms. Changelog: New Multi-Monitor Capture Workflow New monitor selection screen before capture for better multi-monitor and mixed-scaling support. Option to auto-capture the monitor under the cursor (X11 & Windows). Tray menu can directly select a monitor. Linux Improvements XDG Desktop Portal is now the primary screenshot method. Added legacy X11 fallback option for minimal window managers. New D-Bus capture API for scripting and automation. Windows Enhancements Global screenshot hotkeys now supported (not limited to Print Screen). New portable mode stores settings next to the executable. Clipboard now always uses PNG format for better compatibility. CLI & Platform Updates Redesigned flameshot screen command with per-monitor capture support. Added native Nix Flake support. More compact launcher UI and improved update notifications. Major Fixes Multiple Wayland stability fixes, including KDE Plasma crash fixes. Clipboard compatibility improvements for GNOME, Wayland, X11, Windows, and macOS. Fixed D-Bus hangs, capture crashes, and HiDPI region issues. Other Changes Dropped Ubuntu 20.04 (Focal) support. Updated translations and build infrastructure. Intel macOS builds are no longer provided. [full release notes] Download: Flameshot 14.0 | 18.1 MB (Open Source) Download: Flameshot Portable | 53.0 MB Links: Flameshot Home Page | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • The quantum search for Time's origin had an equally mind-boggling conclusion

      By branfont · Posted

      Time, as we know it, was invented by Humans!
    • Politically funny images of the World

      By +Edouard · Posted

    • Helium Browser 0.13.4.1

      By Copernic · Posted

      Helium Browser 0.13.4.1 by Razvan Serea Helium is a private, fast, and honest Chromium-based web browser — built for people, with love. It offers the best privacy by default, unbiased ad-blocking, and a clean experience free from bloat and noise. Proudly based on Ungoogled-Chromium, Helium removes Google’s clutter while keeping a fast, efficient development pipeline. With thoughtful touches like native !bangs and split view, Helium is a people-first, fully open-source browser that puts control back in your hands. Privacy, security, and control come first. Ads, trackers, and third-party cookies are blocked automatically, HTTPS is enforced everywhere, and all Chromium extensions work seamlessly — while Google can’t track your activity. Helium’s 13,000+ offline-ready !bangs let you jump straight to sites or AI tools like ChatGPT instantly. Open-source, people-first, and unbiased, Helium delivers a browsing experience that’s fast, secure, and free from noise, ads, and compromises. Helium Browser key features: Performance Fast, efficient, and lightweight — built on Chromium’s optimized engine. Energy-saving and consistent — stays fast over time without slowing down. No bloat — stripped of unnecessary components for maximum speed. Minimalist interface — compact, clean, and distraction-free. Customizable toolbar — hide elements you don’t need. Smooth and stable — no flicker, lag, or animation glitches. Comfort-focused experience — intuitive and unobtrusive. Privacy & Security Best privacy by default — blocks ads, trackers, phishing, and third-party cookies. Unbiased ad-blocking — powered by community filters and uBlock Origin. No telemetry or analytics — zero background web requests on first launch. Strict HTTPS enforcement — warns for insecure sites. Passkeys supported — modern authentication made simple. No built-in password manager or cloud sync — your data stays yours. Extension Compatibility Full Chromium extension support — including MV2 extensions. Anonymized Chrome Web Store requests — Google can’t track extension installs. Extended MV2 support — maintained for as long as possible. Smart Features Native !bangs — browse faster using 13,000+ offline-ready shortcuts. AI integration — use !chatgpt and others directly from the address bar. Offline functionality — bangs work without an Internet connection. Philosophy People-first design — open source, transparent, and community-driven. No ads, no noise, no bias — privacy and honesty over profit. Helium Browser 0.13.4.1 changelog: 0a4f1149 revision: bump to 4 (#1969) 4848de1f helium/core: enable the chromium screenshot feature (#1968) e0dec3f5 onboarding: integrate strings to i18n system (#1948) 417fa5bc i18n: fix newline parsing for onboarding 7a339b39 i18n: add foraged translations for onboarding 4f090cff i18n/generate: add handling for onboarding strings bfe48d58 i18n_apply: manually override parent grd logic for onboarding strings ab214e3c onboarding: bump in deps, wire up grdp afa6a059 helium/core: disable pdf infobar feature (#1965) eba585e7 helium/ui/vertical: fix new tab button alignment and icon size (#1964) 6ecfc9e0 helium/ui/tabs: fix horizontal tab hover background color (#1963) 3db87dc0 helium/ui/tabs: fix new tab button hover/press colors (#1962) 6bbdcc3e helium/ui: improve tab group UI in all layouts (#1961) 53deb314 helium/ui/tabs: enable tab group hover cards e93aece7 helium/ui/vertical: fix tab group appearance, prevent line overlap 629f5495 helium/ui/tabs: restore solid group header colors, enable new colors 961c962e helium/ui/tabs: move horiz tab group underline to bottom, make it thick c96deab6 merge: update to chromium 149.0.7827.155 (#1959) 36db56b4 i18n: update source.gen.json 5ce006ae patches: refresh for chromium 149.0.7827.155 b4c1ea62 merge: update ungoogled-chromium to 149.0.7827.155 4e5e8671 Update to Chromium 149.0.7827.155 08a3e7da helium/ui/layout: disable mute on collapsed vertical tabs (#1778) a0a5bbaf helium/core: simplify context menu and prevent huge widths (#1951) c4732aac devutils/i18n: add forage command (#1944) 11d16986 devutils/i18n: add an option to translate using local CLI tools (#1942) d820c3a2 i18n/prompt: tighten translation rules to prevent common errors (#1940) cf827007 Update to Chromium 149.0.7827.114 6e3d5164 Update to Chromium 149.0.7827.102 Download: Helium 64-bit | Portable 64-bit |~100.0 MB (Open Source) Download: Helium ARM64 | Portable ARM64 Links: Helium Home Page | macOS | Linux | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware

  • Recent Achievements

    • Reacting Well
      BizSAR earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • First Post
      AndreaB earned a badge
      First Post
    • Week One Done
      Huge Trailer earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      Classifyskilleducation earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      eurospharma62 earned a badge
      One Month Later

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      579
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      182
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      75
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      73
    5. 5
      neufuse
      64
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!