official Windows 8 Consumer Preview Discussion

[keysteele]

You can use current windows live messenger, Trillian, Pidgen or whatever you want in desktop mode if you want to stay in desktop mode. If you're in Metro apps, then I find pinning the metro messenger to the right side of the screen works well.. can even pin the desktop to use remaining estate and switch back and forth easily between the two

Ok I don't seem to get how to pin a app to the side, I tried dragging them and they just go from side to side, but I let them go they snap back to full screen, do you have to have a certain screen resolution to be able to do this?

[spudtrooper]

Ok I don't seem to get how to pin a app to the side, I tried dragging them and they just go from side to side, but I let them go they snap back to full screen, do you have to have a certain screen resolution to be able to do this?

I think you need 1366x1024 minimum to do the snap to screen. I run at 1920x1200 on my desktop, so it works well :) I'll try on my laptop at home and see how it behaves, don't remember the native resolution there.

[keysteele]

I think you need 1366x1024 minimum to do the snap to screen. I run at 1920x1200 on my desktop, so it works well :) I'll try on my laptop at home and see how it behaves, don't remember the native resolution there.

Ok that's why, my laptop doesn't go that high, oh well....

[derkim]

When I'm on the startscreen and I become a message in a messenger I don't become a highlight on the startscreen. I don't know what happens with desktop applications on the startscreen.

If I copy a lot of files, a number of gigabyte and it is finished or there is a question (overwrite, skip...)... The Startscreen doesn't inform me about that....

The desktops don't work together.

[Dot Matrix]

Hey guys. pressing WinKey+PrntScrn takes a PNG screenshot that is auto saved to your Pictures folder! No need to 'paste' into third party software.

[justmike]

I'm asking average users I work with to do basic things that they do every day here on their desktops or laptops, it's taking forever to do the basics. It's not just the location, but the separation of some things, and they don't know the difference between how one IE acts, vs how the other acts. If I say, well just use the one on the desktop, they want to know why the other one is there. I left an average number of installed programs extra tiles in Metro exactly as if they installed them themselves, the start window is another three pages long with those installs, because Metro does not know one from another, and when they find the first one with that name, that's the one they click on, even if it's further on the Metro screen. Our users barely remember how to zoom their screen, so telling them about shortcuts only works for a few. I'm trying to find more time to learn more about it myself (looking for the "load a program at startup" at the moment).

[Elliott]

I've been using the Consumer Preview for a fair bit since yesterday, and I can confirm that anyone who believes the Metro experience is not suited to "power users" or those who use a hardware keyboard and mouse are wrong. They merely do not "get" Windows 8, they haven't opened their mind enough, and they are too blinded by their loyalty to the way they currently use Windows to see the benefits of the Metro experience. I'm not convinced that this view is subjective?surely the usability of something is a fact, and if some find it usable, those who don't find it usable are the ones with the problem?

I'm a software developer and designer, and I don't anticipate any problems with using the Metro experience in my industry. There is nothing worse than many windows open and overlapping. Windows 8 will ensure users adopt a workflow that finally makes sense, where only two windows can be on one screen at the same time. The option is there for another screen, or even more than two screens, if the user wishes; however, that kind of setup will still ensure one screen doesn't contain many windows open and overlapping. Gone will be the days of Windows desktops looking cluttered and a mess.

You're totally right! Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

I mean, who needs multitasking anyway? These 22", 27", and 30" screens we have nowadays should definitely be taken up by one and a quarter apps.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Callum
Edited out the image. We do not mock members here at Neowin.

[Dot Matrix]

You're totally right! Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

I mean, who needs multitasking anyway? These 22", 27", and 30" screens we have nowadays should definitely be taken up by one and a quarter apps?

Why do you think the world is just suddenly going to go metro? Desktop apps will still be written and used post Windows 8.

[ESC@PE]

no one else is having any audio issues?

[br0adband]

Hey guys. pressing WinKey+PrntScrn takes a PNG screenshot that is auto saved to your Pictures folder! No need to 'paste' into third party software.

I'm hoping it will be possible (with a Regedit, perhaps) to change that location: snapping the PNG to the Desktop would be infinitely preferable. Some people have hundreds if not thousands of images in their Pictures folder so, having to then go and track down the screenshot will be counterproductive. Saving it to the Desktop would make it pretty easy to find by comparison.

Personally I still find it easier to PrntScrn and then paste it to Paint or Paint Shop Pro (my image tool of choice), and Alt+PrntScrn to save the current app the same way.

Nice gesture on Microsoft's part to add the new shortcut but, the target of the resulting image needs to change (my opinion, of course).

[mad_onion]

close it (drag thingy or alt+f4) then try again. Else delete accounts then add again.

btw where is that SkyDrive folder where u can drag and drop to upload?

Unfortunately, you can't delete the main account :(

[Elliott]

Why do you think the world is just suddenly going to go metro? Desktop apps will still be written and used post Windows 8.

Because Microsoft is certainly showing their intent. The desktop feels like it's become a second class citizen in Windows 8. It's almost like a virtual machine running inside of Immersive. Common tasks jarringly throw you into the Immersive experience (almost as if to say "Stop going back to the desktop and you might not have a headache right now").

I don't use Windows often, and I'm definitely not a Windows poweruser. I came into this with an open mind, and I was honestly hoping Microsoft had a winner here. For tablets, they certainly do, and I'm hoping they can coordinate with OEMs to give the iPad a run for its money. I can't say the same for desktops, though.

I own an iPad, so I know the pros and cons of not having true multitasking, but for a touch-centric device I know it's better to have an interface that doesn't require input precision than to fiddle around with small widgets. I also own a MacBook Air and frequently use full-screen mode for apps in Lion on it. Full-screen can be nice in some cases for removing distractions or for utilizing all the real-estate a smaller screen has to offer, but I like having a choice. I don't need my Mail and Calendar apps to be full-screen all the time (like when I'm hooked up to a large external display). I definitely don't need some of my apps feeling like they're living in an entirely different OS.

[Kyang]

Clutter, and the pointless stupidity of doing away with a perfectly functional Start menu.

I can pin everything to the taskbar, so what's the problem?

It isn't clutter if it's stuff one uses all the time.

[Wyn6]

To update, it's an issue with Mouse Without Borders. At least partly. The switch to desktop command works if I use the Laptop keyboard but not my main keyboard. However, snapping metro apps still doesn't work, regardless of which keyboard I use.

What do you have the beta installed on? Laptop, desktop, tablet?

[Wyn6]

Can someone explain to me how messenger works in Win8CP?? I don't really have much ppl on it anymore(seems that everybody asks for your skype) but I'm just curious to know how do you know when you get a message in desktop mode when there's no icon for it now in the taskbar???

While on the desktop or Start Screen or in any other app, you'll hear an alert tone and see message pop up in the top right corner telling you there's a message. Since the app is only on the Start Screen, you can only see you have a message(s) in two places, Start Screen and Lock Screen.

[CentralDogma]

Right now I have the Consumer Preview running on my old desktop. I?ve mainly been Remote Desktoping into it(which for those of you who haven?t used remote desktop, I can only describe it as ?magic?). I haven?t had much time to use it, and since it?s not my main desktop, I don?t anticipate using it very much.

I haven?t run into the issue of not being able to find a way to shut down, since I?m RD in the main session just sits at the lock screen and when it needs to be shut down, I just go to it and hit shut down on the lock screen. I did run into an issue that even after shutting down and restarting, the PC still says it?s ?resuming? to windows, which is not good when you?re trying to access the BIOS boot menu.

So, let?s talk about bad design decisions.

The desktop as a second class citizen. I can understand the reason to have the desktop as an app. It let?s you do something like this:

however, it also lets you do:

which works because the desktop is an app, but it doesn?t make any sense. Who would use the desktop at 1/3 screen? There?s no purpose to it. It exposes the issues with the ?desktop as an app? concept. The desktop doesn?t function as an app, it?s a container. Have a look at this screenshot:

In the classic task bar located at the desktop they have Paint and Chrome open. But now there?s a new way of managing the open apps located on the left of the screen, with weather open. It?s needlessly duplication of functionality. Now I have to consider which bar to use when I want to activate an application. There are some choice phrases to apply here: ?keep it simple stupid?, ?don?t reinvent the wheel?, ?don?t bring a knife to a gun fight?.

And this needless duplication is found throughout the system. Metro applications and a desktop applications with the same purpose, but no connection to one another. For example, look at Internet Explorer. You can set up bookmarks, open a few tabs in the desktop IE, but when you open the metro IE, you lose all of that, it has no connection to the desktop version. There should be a connection between the metro and desktop version of these applications. Implement someway to quickly switch between version, but maintain the same state. Look at Settings Page and Control Panel. Why aren?t these functionalities combined into one application accessible on both metro and desktop.

Um, you don't have to do that. All you need to do is press Enter on the keyboard, while your PC is locked, and you will be able to log in. . . .

This is the problem with most of you who claim you dislike Windows 8: You haven't opened your minds enough to "get" it, and it's clear you haven't given it a chance because you don't even understand how to accomplish basic tasks such as logging in (or shutting down, in the case of some people)?tasks that I understood how to accomplish straight away because Windows 8 is intuitive.

I think this an excellent example. Sure you could hit enter, but shouldn?t a mouse click be registered as important as hitting enter. Microsoft obviously thought the mouse a valid way of opening the lock screen. It?s very unlikely the user accidently hit the mouse one button. Clicking and holding is overly excessive. And, more the point, why does this screen exist? Even after unlocking, you still have to sign in. Sure it makes sense for a tablet or phone to have a lock screen, it could accidentally get activate and may not have a login page, but this page serves no purpose on a desktop.

Keep in mind, this is software you will be expected to pay for (rather heavily). The expectation is not on the user to get it, it is on Microsoft to make their software gettable.

To wrap up, I think Windows 8 will be useable. You can get things done in it, which is kind of the main purpose of an Operating System. I?ll probably get it if I can find it on the cheap and wait until someone reimplements the start menu and turns Metro into something similar to Mac?s Dashboard. There are serious design issues, but they?re just design issues. And while it is unfortunate to see one of the world?s largest software manufactures make such fundamentally bad design decisions, it shouldn?t get in the way of usability.

[Calum Veteran]

You're totally right! Thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

I mean, who needs multitasking anyway? These 22", 27", and 30" screens we have nowadays should definitely be taken up by one and a quarter apps.

What I'm saying makes perfect sense. Two apps open at once, on a screen of any size, is sufficient when multitasking in Windows 8, due to how easy it is to switch to another app/window, and if someone cannot be as productive when multitasking that way as they are when using Windows 7, they have a problem. Too many people don't understand that this will simply be a case of them adapting to how multitasking works in the Metro experience of Windows 8. It's very easy and quick to switch to other apps/windows by either using keyboard shortcuts or a quick move of the mouse; thus, productivity is not hindered at all.

It's concerning that an incredible amount of people aren't prepared to give this new multitasking concept a try, when it will likely benefit them. Using it for a few hours or days is not enough time; you should all use it for a couple of months before judging. That's what I'm doing. What I have said in the above paragraph isn't stated with certainty, as I'm waiting to find out for sure if that is the case; it's merely me being rational, considering I (unlike many) "get" the new multitasking concept.

[BajiRav]

Let's say your are in Metro Start Menu and you put DVD Installation Disc, all you will hear is a sound tick. You have no idea that Auto Play popup is waiting for you on Desktop.

People should just stop talking about stuff that they have no idea about.

FTR, you will get a popup on metro. But please continue trolling.

[trek]

I know people my age (24) who still finds the desktop complicated. My sister still doesn't know how to use an anti-virus program. The fact is, if we started off in metro since 1995, then switched to desktop view now, the vast majority of people who find it a step backwards with it's over-complexity. With metro, you can view right on your start screen any have new mail you may have (or just about anything) instead of opening up a browser, then navigating to gmail.com. This is probably how the desktop show always have been.

I cannot more strongly disagree.

[Wyn6]

No, I'm not expecting a comprehensive suite of apps at this stage (or even post-release), the apps in the CP give a sample of the kind of tasks, apps MS seem to think could be done from the Metro UI. I was making the point that of all the various types of apps we've seen there's nothing I'd want to use. Everything I do on my computer would work better and be more productive on a proper desktop app than some basic, dumbed-down Metro app that is removed from the desktop UI. Now if I could open a Metro app in a maximise/minimise/resizeable-able window within the desktop UI then maybe I'd find some worth using. For example I use a great Twitter client called MetroTwit. That is a desktop application in a Metro style and it's really productive precisely because it runs on the desktop. If I had to switch over to the Metro UI every time I wanted to glance at at app I simply wouldn't use it as it would be too unproductive and the UI would get in the way..

You wouldn't switch to Metro to use it, you would check it in the preview pane to the left. You still have to open it if you're in desktop mode. Unless, you have it snapped, or you have multiple windows open at once on the desktop. Most people tend to work in one app at a time. They may have two up simultaneously while running many. You can't physically work more than one app simultaneously anyway. For example, I can't do something in Excel while composing an email or writing this reply at the same time. I have to do one, switch to the other, do that, switch back and so on.

If I wanna check Twitter either thru the web or via an app, I have to go somewhere else and click somewhere else. Or... I can have an app snapped to the side be that in Win 7 desktop OR in Win 8 Start Screen.

About apps to be written. Traditional desktop apps can be written in WinRT and work on x86/x64, and ARM with the same functionality. This enables Metro is the design language and philosophy. A dev can opt in to use that design language if they choose. Or, they can opt out and use their own design. Targeting WinRT does not in anyway handicap an app. Using the Metro design language, likewise, does not handicap an app.

I would further explain this but... I don't wanna. ;) Seriously, I hope that clears some stuff up. Probably not. But, one can hope.

[efjay]

I'm asking average users I work with to do basic things that they do every day here on their desktops or laptops, it's taking forever to do the basics. It's not just the location, but the separation of some things, and they don't know the difference between how one IE acts, vs how the other acts. If I say, well just use the one on the desktop, they want to know why the other one is there. I left an average number of installed programs extra tiles in Metro exactly as if they installed them themselves, the start window is another three pages long with those installs, because Metro does not know one from another, and when they find the first one with that name, that's the one they click on, even if it's further on the Metro screen. Our users barely remember how to zoom their screen, so telling them about shortcuts only works for a few. I'm trying to find more time to learn more about it myself (looking for the "load a program at startup" at the moment).

Can you elaborate more and give examples of tasks that are taking forever and other points you raise?

[Wyn6]

What I'm saying makes perfect sense. Two apps open at once, on a screen of any size, is sufficient when multitasking in Windows 8, due to how easy it is to switch to another app/window, and if someone cannot be as productive when multitasking that way as they are when using Windows 7, they have a problem. Too many people don't understand that this will simply be a case of them adapting to how multitasking works in the Metro experience of Windows 8. It's very easy and quick to switch to other apps/windows by either using keyboard shortcuts or a quick move of the mouse; thus, productivity is not hindered at all.

It's concerning that an incredible amount of people aren't prepared to give this new multitasking concept a try, when it will likely benefit them. Using it for a few hours or days is not enough time; you should all use it for a couple of months before judging. That's what I'm doing. What I have said in the above paragraph isn't stated with certainty, as I'm waiting to find out for sure if that is the case; it's merely me being rational, considering I (unlike many) "get" the new multitasking concept.

Let me add this. This was developed by some of the top developers/programmers in the world at the top software company in the world. I guarantee they do more work-related multitasking in a single day on their machines than many of us do in a week. If there was a problem with productivity, wouldn't you think this would highly affect Microsoft, their employees AND their bottom line?

If it was undoable, I guarantee that in the years since they conceptualized this, they would have rethought it. Because, guaranteed the majority of their employees will be using this once the product is finalized. Does it make sense for them to create something that's going to severely hamper their own company? So, I somehow doubt that most of you complaining about multitasking will be THAT hampered.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

no one else is having any audio issues?

What kind?

[efjay]

no one else is having any audio issues?

None here, onboard speakers and headphone jack working on my Acer W500.

[Calum Veteran]

Let me add this. This was developed by some of the top developers/programmers in the world at the top software company in the world. I guarantee they do more work-related multitasking in a single day on their machines than many of us do in a week. If there was a problem with productivity, wouldn't you think this would highly affect Microsoft, their employees AND their bottom line?

If it was undoable, I guarantee that in the years since they conceptualized this, they would have rethought it. Because, guaranteed the majority of their employees will be using this once the product is finalized. Does it make sense for them to create something that's going to severely hamper their own company? So, I somehow doubt that most of you complaining about multitasking will be THAT hampered.

That's an excellent point, and very well said! :yes: