Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours

[MarkusDarkus]

600 replies!

[encarta]

Well, then I don't see why people are crying about being somehow crippled by the transition from Start menu to Start screen.

What part of "No matter where I am, no matter what I do, I can always start a program with ONE (taskbar) or TWO (start menu) clicks. you don't understand?

Metro start screen takes up THE WHOLE screen. I have to close the app just to start another one. I don't care about Microsoft's "three screens" vision. Metro is counterproductive and it's not suitable for a desktop computer with a large monitor, period. So once again, this is how Metro should look like on a desktop:

http://www.theverge....ktop-ui-concept

Edited March 12, 2012 by ~Johnny
removed swearing

[HawkMan]

Honestly you just need two hours for this OS to try because there is nothing new compared to Windows 7 except for new Metro and back end changes we don't see.

Well then you didn't even take two hours, because there some rather big ne noticeable psi changes to the OS excpt metro as well.

What part of "No matter where I am, no matter what I do, I can always start a program with ONE (taskbar) or TWO (start menu) clicks. you don't understand?

Metro start screen takes up THE WHOLE screen. I have to close the app just to start another one. I don't care about Microsoft's "three screens" vision. Metro is counterproductive and it's not suitable for a desktop computer with a large monitor, period. So once again, this is how Metro should look like on a desktop:

http://www.theverge....ktop-ui-concept

So, how is that one and two clicks different in Win8. Cause it's not.

And you don't have to close anything, by default they not close untill resources are needed.

[zhangm Supervisor]

What part of "No matter where I am, no matter what I do, I can always start a program with ONE (taskbar) or TWO (start menu) clicks. you don't understand?

If I'm on the desktop, I can access a pinned program on the Start screen in two clicks or one key press and one click. Look, it is simple. Click once in the corner, and then once more on the program. That's two. Or, press the Windows key and click on the program. That's one - unless clicks in the Start screen count as two or more in your world view.

Alternatively, the taskbar is still there, so that part of the workflow hasn't changed, and you don't need to close a program to start another one. Try opening the music player and starting up a song. Then back out to the Start screen and start another app. Amazingly enough, the music continues to play in the background! You also have the option of running anything you want in the Desktop app, where things behave according to traditional desktop expectations.

But by all means, keep making your letters larger.

[PGHammer]

I was lead to believe WIndows 8 is aimed more at tablet users.

So it's merely wasting money buying windows 8 for desktops and laptops.

Horsepuckey.

Windows 8 is perfectly usable on desktops, laptops, notebooks - any PC with a keyboard and mouse (even those without touch).

The detractors (all of them) are having issues with the lack of the traditional Start menu.

Just because things hadn't changed in a major way in terms of the Windows UI since Windows 9x, the assumption was that things would never change.

On top of that, the other great assumption was that applications were tied to the UI.

Guess what? Windows 8 (both the Developer Preview and the Consumer Preview) is absolutely trainwrecking both assumptions.

Despite the dramatically-different UI, traditional Win32 applications Just Plain Work. (Detractors only, please - can any of you name ONE application that doesn't work in the Consumer Preview due to the different UI?)

The typical bugbears with the first beta of a new version of Windows have been application compatibility and hardware/driver compatibility - this is the first beta of any version of Windows I've ever used that suffers from neither issue.

Actually, most gamers want stability FAR more than customization; they want an OS that doesn't crash merely due to tweakage of game settings. The fact that Windows 8 Consumer Preview is, at the defaults, more stable than Windows 7+SP1 on the same hardware is fantastic news for the PC gaming community.

[MFH]

The fact that Windows 8 Consumer Preview is, at the defaults, more stable than Windows 7+SP1 on the same hardware is fantastic news for the PC gaming community.

Something can be more stable than "0 crashes since release"?

[encarta]

Well then you didn't even take two hours, because there some rather big ne noticeable psi changes to the OS excpt metro as well.

So, how is that one and two clicks different in Win8. Cause it's not.

And you don't have to close anything, by default they not close untill resources are needed.

If I'm on the desktop, I can access a pinned program on the Start screen in two clicks or one key press and one click. Look, it is simple. Click once in the corner, and then once more on the program. That's two. Or, press the Windows key and click on the program. That's one - unless clicks in the Start screen count as two or more in your world view.

Alternatively, the taskbar is still there, so that part of the workflow hasn't changed, and you don't need to close a program to start another one. Try opening the music player and starting up a song. Then back out to the Start screen and start another app. Amazingly enough, the music continues to play in the background! You also have the option of running anything you want in the Desktop app, where things behave according to traditional desktop expectations.

But by all means, keep making your letters larger.

You just don't get it, do you? So just like that, one click is the same as two clicks? On my taskbar, there are about 25 icons. Those are the apps I use every day. Let's say I'm browsing the web, I need 1Password, click and it opens. WMP? Click and it opens. I don't need to press the win key, I don't need to press start, nothing. I can also switch between open apps with one click. I can even see what's going on in those apps if I hover my mouse over icons for a half a second. Once again, I can do all of this, no matter where I am or what I do.

In Windows 8. I have to constantly switch back and forth and back and fort between the old desktop, start screen and metro apps. So yes, Win8 messes up with my workflow, and not in a good way. If MS want to remove the start menu, I don't care, but give me a BETTER solution, not worse. So, after 25 years of using all sorts of computers, gadgets, OSes (my first computer was Commodore 64, I was 5 years old then), and after 13 years of designing UIs, websites and other stuff, I think a can recognize a bad design pretty fast. And that's what Windows 8 on a desktop computer is, a UX nightmare. I do not want to constantly move my right hand from the mouse to keyboard just so I can run an app fast. If that's the case, then remove the GUI altogether and we can return to the days of terminals/DOS/whatever.

Try opening the music player and starting up a song. Then back out to the Start screen and start another app. Amazingly enough, the music continues to play in the background!

You sound like one of those annoying door-to-door salesmen. So I click the desktop tile, to go to the old desktop, click again to start WMP, start a song, press win key to go back to the start screen. Yup, that sound awesome. /s

[~Johnny]

You just don't get it, do you? So just like that, one click is the same as two clicks? On my taskbar, there are about 25 icons. Those are the apps I use every day. Let's say I'm browsing the web, I need 1Password, click and it opens. WMP? Click and it opens. I don't need to press the win key, I don't need to press start, nothing. I can also switch between open apps with one click. I can even see what's going on in those apps if I hover my mouse over icons for a half a second. Once again, I can do all of this, no matter where I am or what I do.

In Windows 8. I have to constantly switch back and forth and back and fort between the old desktop, start screen and metro apps. So yes, Win8 messes up with my workflow, and not in a good way. If MS want to remove the start menu, I don't care, but give me a BETTER solution, not worse.

Are you sure you've used Windows 8? You can do that exact same scenario on Windows 8. Same 25 apps pinned to the taskbar, launching the same 25 apps as you always have. Just click on the taskbar, up pops the window. On the desktop. Like it always has done.

WHY do you need to constantly switch between desktop / metro / start screen? You don't. If your apps are pinned to the taskbar, then you never have to leave the desktop. If you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to install any. If you really need to use the start menu, it's basically the same as it was before - open start menu, launch desktop program, start menu closes & desktop program opens.

You sound like one of those annoying door-to-door salesmen. So I click the desktop tile, to go to the old desktop, click again to start WMP, start a song, press win key to go back to the start screen. Yup, that sound awesome. /s

You could just click the WMP tile. And why do you need to go directly back to the start screen / menu? Alternatively, why are you living on the start screen as your home screen? You could just live on the desktop as your homescreen...

In your case, just be on the desktop in the first place, click on your pinned WMP, play some music, and continue on in the desktop as you were.

Just because the start screen is there, it does not suddenly mean everyone is forced to start using it as the centre of all their computing tasks.

[encarta]

Are you sure you've used Windows 8? You can do that exact same scenario on Windows 8. Same 25 apps pinned to the taskbar, launching the same 25 apps as you always have. Just click on the taskbar, up pops the window. On the desktop. Like it always has done.

WHY do you need to constantly switch between desktop / metro / start screen? You don't. If your apps are pinned to the taskbar, then you never have to leave the desktop. If you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't have to install any. If you really need to use the start menu, it's basically the same as it was before - open start menu, launch desktop program, start menu closes & desktop program opens.

You could just click the WMP tile. And why do you need to go directly back to the start screen / menu? Alternatively, why are you living on the start screen as your home screen? You could just live on the desktop as your homescreen...

In your case, just be on the desktop in the first place, click on your pinned WMP, play some music, and continue on in the desktop as you were.

Just because the start screen is there, it does not suddenly mean everyone is forced to start using it as the centre of all their computing tasks.

I'm amazed. And you guys are telling us, who hate Win 8, that we live in the past (you live in the high tech metro future, of course)? Do you even realize what's gonna happen when developers start releasing metro apps? A complete mess. Exactly what I was talking about. Sure, maybe you can stay on the old desktop for now (but even now, you activate that stupid charms bar when you close the app in the top right corner, mail is metro, etc.), but not for long. Plus, why not give us the option to completely remove the Metro? You get what we want and you get what you want. Also, we all get the new kernel, new task manager and other goodies. I'd LOVE to see a "Zune-styled" classic desktop. Make it clean and simple, but also make it fresh and futuristic. Make it inviting. Make it jaw-dropping. Right now, metro is boring and ugly. It's disgusting. It looks like it was designed by someone who doesn't have a clue about design (probably was). If they want a smooth transition, they should leave the taskbar + start button where they are. They could replace the old start menu with some start menu-start screen hybrid. Just don't force me to press the win key and don't force me to use those retarded full screen apps. But if you want it you could have the option to use metro like we see it today. If they want me to pay 200-300 ? for a retail copy, they better start working like crazy!

[HawkMan]

And again, launching apps from the start screen is the same two clicks as launching from the start menu, so you are the one who isn't making sense.

[~Johnny]

I'm amazed. And you guys are telling us, who hate Win 8, that we live in the past (you live in the high tech metro future, of course)? Do you even realize what's gonna happen when developers start releasing metro apps? A complete mess. Exactly what I was talking about. Sure, maybe you can stay on the old desktop for now (but even now, you activate that stupid charms bar when you close the app in the top right corner, mail is metro, etc.), but not for long. Plus, why not give us the option to completely remove the Metro? You get what we want and you get what you want. Also, we all get the new kernel, new task manager and other goodies. I'd LOVE to see a "Zune-styled" classic desktop. Make it clean and simple, but also make it fresh and futuristic. Make it inviting. Make it jaw-dropping. Right now, metro is boring and ugly. It's disgusting. It looks like it was designed by someone who doesn't have a clue about design (probably was). If they want a smooth transition, they should leave the taskbar + start button where they are. They could replace the old start menu with some start menu-start screen hybrid. Just don't force me to press the win key and don't force me to use those retarded full screen apps. But if you want it you could have the option to use metro like we see it today. If they want me to pay 200-300 ? for a retail copy, they better start working like crazy!

I've never personally ever mentioned in my posts anything about being people being in the past or Metro likers being the future- but -

1 - You don't have to press the WinKey. Just use the bottom left corner, the same corner most people have been using for the start button for years.

2 - Mail wasn't even included in Windows 7 - the Microsoft's desktop mail program, Windows Live Mail, still exists, still works great, and can still be installed, just like you had too for Windows 7. And they're not broken, and it offers more than the Metro app anyway.

3 - Design-wise none of the Metro apps are finished (it is a mess right now, and I'd personally think Microsoft would save their own time implementing all this if they didn't decide to implement their first party interfaces in HTML & JS and used XAML instead), but I've personally seen some concepts that look pretty great (I'm personally also developing a few).

4 - No one's forcing you to use Metro apps. No one. Desktop apps still work! Developers are still going to create desktop apps - they're not going to just abandon the desktop. The only Metro app that doesn't really have a comparable desktop counterpart is the WIndows Store, (though it willl be online) but considering you don't want to use Metro apps I don't think that's going to be much of an issue for you anyway.

[encarta]

And again, launching apps from the start screen is the same two clicks as launching from the start menu, so you are the one who isn't making sense.

*sigh* This is getting ridiculous. Apps that I use every day - > taskbar (for the last time, ONE CLICK). Apps that I use maybe once a week - > start menu jumplist (two clicks, except start menu doesn't take the whole screen).

[MorganX]

Finger swiping with the touch mouse makes the Win 8 Start page totally usable and fixes most full screen apps. It's like night and day, why? Because this is a touch interface. The switching back and forth is still a kludge and having a ton of tiles is just ridiculous (no folders).

I don't think it will be popular on the desktop with this implementation, a touch UI has to be all or nothing. Fortunately, there's so much good stuff other than the UI, MS will get a way with ramming it down people's throat. I think I will absolutely love Metro tablets though.

Additionally, MS needs to lighten the touch mouse by about 8lbs. The Metro UI made my laptop completely unusable until I get to the desktop. lol.

Touch mouse is the way to go though eliminates my biggest issues. Maybe the RTM will allow you to boot to desktop which will eliminate my second biggest issue? I spend more time jacking around in the Start Page before I can get to work. I view live tiles and the Start Page as an App that could all have been gadgets. I need to see a compelling reason to hang out on the start page, after all, I never hung out in my Start Menu before, now I have to almost.

Not as bad as it was, but not as good as it should be.

[zhangm Supervisor]

*sigh* This is getting ridiculous. Apps that I use every day - > taskbar (for the last time, ONE CLICK). Apps that I use maybe once a week - > start menu jumplist (two clicks, except start menu doesn't take the whole screen).

It certainly is ridiculous. Have you even seen a screenshot of Win8? The taskbar is still here, and yes, you only need to click once on a taskbar button in Windows 8 to launch it. They even still have the jumplists. :D

I am, however, disappointed that there is no jumplist functionality on the Start screen. Meanwhile, the Start screen requires exactly the same number of clicks to launch an item as the Start menu - except that Live Tiles affords people a single-glance option for information that might be updated frequently, like social events, e-mails, calendars, weather, etc - so in some cases, a second click isn't even required.

I think the biggest adjustment people will need to make is based on learning where things are on the screen. While Windows 8 offers larger target areas for each item, the Start screen does offer a lot more room to learn.

[MorganX]

Something can be more stable than "0 crashes since release"?

Great point. It's ridiculous to say 8 is more "stable" than rock solid 7SP1. The Metro Apps are all preview and buggy, we won't know how stable it's going to be until there are more Metro Apps, that are actually heavily used. However, it may, should, and appears to me to be more optimized and definitely has some more under the hood features.

Actually 7SP1 stability is the best excuse for burying the shutdown controls, when's the last time you "had" to shutdown windows 7? When you installed a driver update and received a restart prompt maybe?

[dafin0]

*sigh* This is getting ridiculous. Apps that I use every day - > taskbar (for the last time, ONE CLICK). Apps that I use maybe once a week - > start menu jumplist (two clicks, except start menu doesn't take the whole screen).

mate we seam to be going around in circles with you, but what you say you can still do in the seam amount of clicks

you still have the start bar and it opens in ONE click. you can still view all your programs and this is quicker than windows 7. in 7 you click 1 'start' 2 'all programs', 3 click the program/folder you want or if you use them a fair bit just two clicks

in WIndows 8 its slide to charm bar, 1 click search, 2 click the program you want.

[MorganX]

It certainly is ridiculous. Have you even seen a screenshot of Win8? The taskbar is still here, and yes, you only need to click once on a taskbar button in Windows 8 to launch it. They even still have the jumplists. :D

I am, however, disappointed that there is no jumplist functionality on the Start screen. Meanwhile, the Start screen requires exactly the same number of clicks to launch an item as the Start menu - except that Live Tiles affords people a single-glance option for information that might be updated frequently, like social events, e-mails, calendars, weather, etc - so in some cases, a second click isn't even required.

I think the biggest adjustment people will need to make is based on learning where things are on the screen. While Windows 8 offers larger target areas for each item, the Start screen does offer a lot more room to learn.

Well he has to get rid of the Start Page to get to the taskbar each day. And to get back he has to go up to the corner of a potentially WIDE screen then go down to start, then get rid of it again when he's done (potentially). Additionally, with no Win 7 Start Menu/Taskbar, it is not available in any app. Auto-hide + Start Menu = fabulous, destroys OS X and Windows 8 (Start Page metaphor that is).

Due to the UI changes I fear autohide taskbar is gone forever, what a waste. From any app, any time, without closing the apps you can with just a mouse click once, and hover through all your docs, computer (prolly more than one click) find a file, drag it into app, all without the app ever leaving the screen.

Jumplist functionality will be missed from the start page, as will having all that navigation in a compact, easy to anticipate area. I'm not sure how this one is going to turn out. MS is changing things for the first time, not to necessarily make it better, Win 7 works great and no one is actually complaining, they're making changes for their own reasons. This should be interesting.

PS: I would definitely like the squared off Windowing of Windows 8 in Windows 7.

[Dot Matrix]

PS: I would definitely like the squared off Windowing of of Windows 8 in Windows 7.

http://my.deviantart.com/messages/#/d4s6pra :D

[MorganX]

you can still view all your programs and this is quicker than windows 7.

I'm not going to say there's anything you can't do in Windows 8 that you could do in Windows 7. But the above statement is "highly" debateable. I promise with all your programs on the start page it is not quicker than 7 Start and search. However, just start typing the name of the app at Start Page, just like you would have to in Windows 7 and it's about the same. Except in Windows 8 you have to switch UI metaphors to do it and lose focus of all other apps, then switch back.

Now,

Once you start adding in all the sliding and dragging (eliminated some with a mouse, and almost all with a touch mouse) I believe Windows 7 is much more efficient. And the auto-hide taskbar for managing open apps and groups of apps is a no-brainer, Windows 7 rules. I beleive Windows 8 is really a step backwards in this area, if you actually use those features. Consumers won't even notice it.

[MorganX]

http://my.deviantart...sages/#/d4s6pra :D

That looks real good Dot Matrix. I typically don't run these types of things, they destabilize my Rock Solid Windows 7 but I d/l'd it and I'm thinking real hard about it. I have a 32G system that I never have to reboot or close apps and I can see the shell faults now, lol. I think I'll take a quick system image and go for it, for a little while at least :)

[br0adband]

I am by definition a "Power User," have been since I started with computers in the 1970s (yes, I'm old, and I built an Altair 8800 by hand in 1975 so there...). Everytime I see someone say this or anything even similar to it:

In Windows 8. I have to constantly switch back and forth and back and fort between the old desktop, start screen and metro apps.

all that comes to mind is someone that's complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm running the CP, have been since oh, 35 minutes after the ISO links went live on the 29th of February, and I did have some issues when it was first installed but, with a trip to Windows Update most all of them were resolved (sluggish performance because of no Intel GMA950 default drivers, after Windows Update the GUI performance is butter smooth on this older ThinkPad T60 with a Core Duo - not even a Core 2 Duo).

When I see a statement like that one above I don't understand where it comes from. I've got 71 apps installed, about 17 buttons on the Taskbar, and shortcuts to others if necessary (on the Start screen). In a typical day of 8-10 hours of using this laptop, I "see" the Start screen maybe 10, maybe 15 times in that entire period of time. Seriously, I don't "see" the Start screen as I've got this machine now set up the way I want it, with access to my most commonly used applications a click away and at most two. I have always been a major supporter of Alt+Tab and I still am, always will be, but the "modern" Taskbar in Windows nowadays (since Vista) has improved the ability to gain access to apps in many respects.

I just don't get the issues people have with the way Windows 8 is currently working and yet people also fail to realize it's a beta and things will change from the time it was released to the next potential public release (a release candidate, hopefully), and I fully expect the current Consumer Preview will change in some fairly extreme ways, practically like the Developer Preview mutated into the Consumer Preview.

There is a LOT of work to be done, and Microsoft is already all over it. They don't read every single post on every single forum but, the fact of the matter is that tons of people are simply hating the same aspects - people don't like change. Ever.

And this is a rather dramatic change. As others have noted, we got this same basic confusion and frustration when Windows 95 came out from the Win 3.1x folks complaining that things were too different, too new, didn't make any sense to them, they couldn't adapt, that sort of thing.

People adapted.

Same thing with Windows XP all over again, same complaints, same frustration, same reasoning.

People adapted.

Same thing with Vista, all over again, same complaints, same frustration, same reasoning.

People adapted.

Same thing happened even with Windows 7, all over again, same complaints, same frustration, same reasoning.

People adapted.

Same thing is happening now with Windows 8 and it's not even finished yet and will change rather dramatically in the next few months to come.

Nothing new to see here folks... move along, move along... :shifty:

[MorganX]

They need to give you a clear option to use metro or not.

Ill be sticking with window 7 at least for now.

Unfortunately, based on the reasons they're doing this in the first place which are beyond the scope of this thread :>, I don't belive providing the option to "not" use the metro start menu/page is an option. They are using it to force developers to make metro apps for tablets. There's no other reason to make fullscreen only apps.

For the first time, the way it is right now, i will also be staying with Windows 7, at least for my personal and home use. I'll wait it out, I did WindowsMe and Vista, but not this time. And it's not necessarily because Windows 8 is "that" bad (I think Metro is that bad on the desktop), it's because Windows 7 is "that" good.

When I see a statement like that one above I don't understand where it comes from. I've got 71 apps installed, about 17 buttons on the Taskbar, and shortcuts to others if necessary (on the Start screen). In a typical day of 8-10 hours of using this laptop, I "see" the Start screen maybe 10, maybe 15 times in that entire period of time.

I'll tell you why you don't understand. He said "he" not "you."

Some people, myself included, hit the start menu (solo Windows key, all day long). It brings up search, recent and pinned apps with jumplists. Everytime you do that now, full screen start page in your face. It's almost comical in fact. Different users will have different experiences, unfortunately for a lot of people they will be bad and very very annoying.

[encarta]

mate we seam to be going around in circles with you, but what you say you can still do in the seam amount of clicks

you still have the start bar and it opens in ONE click. you can still view all your programs and this is quicker than windows 7. in 7 you click 1 'start' 2 'all programs', 3 click the program/folder you want or if you use them a fair bit just two clicks

in WIndows 8 its slide to charm bar, 1 click search, 2 click the program you want.

In windows 7, it's win key/start button, type, click the program you want. So what's your point?

But seriously guys, you can drink all the Kool-Aid from MS if you want.

Because...

<Snipped>

Edited March 12, 2012 by Anaron

[~Johnny]

In windows 7, it's win key/start button, type, click the program you want. So what's your point?

*shrugs* It's the same in Windows 8 too.

[MorganX]

*shrugs* It's the same in Windows 8 too.

With the exception that if you're on the Desktop there is a full page UI switch, you must then completely refocus on what you were doing depending on what you were searching for. For many this is a non-issue, for many others it is. Its just a fact.

Since Windows 7 isn't broken I would say if Windows 8's annoyances bother you, stay with Windows 7 until they are addressed or forever. Hell, Windows XP lasted many many years, Windows 7 hasn't even dominated it in the Enterprise yet. If XP could last that long, 7 can go 5x longer.

I can't wait to get a Windows 8 Tablet though.