Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours


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Dot Matrix

So, because YOU like it, others have to as well?

That seems to be the gist of many of your posts here, as well as those of other Windows 8 supports like Paul Thurrott.

No, but a few on here seem lost as to why Metro is there to begin with, which is the point I really want to drive home. But also, just because I hate something, doesn't mean I'm going to hide it from other.

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Southern Patriot

Everyone who dislikes likes it breaks their legs to get on here and post there reasons why they don't like, why they hate love it, we have posts after posts giving silly little reasons why it doesn't work works, why it will be another Vista Windows 95, and at the end of the day, and this has been said before

It goes both ways.

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HawkMan

Other than typing a reply or an e-mail, I can spend my entire day using Windows without ever touching the keyboard. By "deprecated", I was referring to using the keyboard to control the computer, as you did with DOS. Remember having to type the name of a program in order to launch it with DOS? That supposedly went away with Windows, but for some odd reason, Microsoft (and many of Win8's supporters here) want us to go back to doing just that, via desktop search.

No, the intention was NEVER to go completely mouse oriented for GUI control or to launch programs. in fact even in XP the keyboard is a more efficient tool for launching apps. with Vista and instant search even more so.

besides that little factoid. launching programs is what you spend perhaps, at most, on a boring day, 1% of your computer time doing. the majority of yoru time on a computer is with the keyboard, unless all you do is surf the web.

Which is also the same reason complaining that they moved the shutdown out of the way is stupid. if you're one of those who insist one shutting down the computer every day, you use it ONCE every day. that does not warrant the function a prominent place at the best real estate on the OS. that warrant hiding it away but still accessible. Then there's the little fact you're not suppose to shut down the computer anyway. just leave power save features and sleep mode do it's thing.

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techguy77

Sadly, no matter how much people may hate Windows 8 and Metro, it will sell big. Simply because it will be installed on all those smaller and cheaper devices. In the past their sales numbers for an OS were for desktops, but that is about to change in a big way. Even if people don't buy a copy, it was already paid for on a device that has it installed. This is the perfect opportunity for MS to start taking over the portable market, to make Windows phone line up better with the OS, to push their Store into the market, to push their cloud storage into the market, to further advertise Xbox, to get more people using their Live sign-in for everything, and the list goes on. No one is FORCING people to use Windows 8, but eventually it is what will be on all new systems, and all those copies that are sometimes free, or almost free (like where I work) for your government and educational systems. :/

If people actually buy those devices which i doubt they will.

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Salutary7

If people actually buy those devices which i doubt they will.

I'm pretty pessimistic about Win8 tablet sales too. I have to wonder how competitive the pricing will be and which of MSFT's hardware partners can seriously compete with Apple, who has such efficient control over their supply chain. Not to mention, the market will already be saturated with iPad2's & 3's along with the myriad Android devices, meaning potential costumers will be lacking.

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Southern Patriot

besides that little factoid. launching programs is what you spend perhaps, at most, on a boring day, 1% of your computer time doing. the majority of yoru time on a computer is with the keyboard, unless all you do is surf the web.

I guess it really depends a lot on what you do for work. I spend a lot of time doing video and photo editing, neither of which make much use of the keyboard. Listening to music or watching movies or videos online likewise involve very little typing. Were it not for Neowin, Facebook, or typing the occasional e-mail, I could probably go days without touching the keyboard for more than a couple of minutes a day. The funny thing is, therefore, that my web surfing actually accounts for the vast majority of my keyboard use, which is exactly the opposite of your use. Everyone is different though.

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briangw

I highly doubt that you guys at MS really fully thought this through. Stop trying to push the drivel your company wants to and admit this is a horrible horrible way to go. I will flat out REFUSE to work on any Windows 8 computer and I will not even recommend it to anyone. It's a freaking nightmare to use. I can't even begin to imagine how someone like my parents would react to using it.

I recall hearing similar "drivel" regarding the Ribbon in Office 2007 and lo and behold, parents, grandparents and even non-techie types are using it. If anything, the Metro Start Menu is easy for anyone to find something: whether you can't see well, not good with PCs, or are a techie-type.

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briangw

It's a big change, like going from DOS -> Windows 3.1, or Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95. All the same complaints were heard back then too, "Mice are toys, professionals will never use them," and so on. But the world moves on.

Agreed. I remember people bitching about the Commodore 64 and moving from tape drives to floppy drives. My favorite was a friend of my father's who looked at a floppy disk and said 'these will never work. Cassette tapes will always be here and forever.'

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MorganX

No you don't, to search settings it's Windows Key + W.

Windows + F is to search files. Easy.

Cumbersome and no longer unified. Now you MUST learn and use keyboard shortcuts to be productive. This is a step backwards IMO.

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MorganX

Agreed. I remember people bitching about the Commodore 64 and moving from tape drives to floppy drives. My favorite was a friend of my father's who looked at a floppy disk and said 'these will never work. Cassette tapes will always be here and forever.'

I think it's more like going from Windows 95 to WindowsMe and Windows XP to Windows Vista.

I actually don't remember anyone complaining about going from Cassette to Floppy. Floppy's were cooler than heck. They were cool when Trash-80s were cool. Let's agree to disagree not make stuff up or take an anectdotal experience with 1 guys dad and attribute it to millions.

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Dot Matrix

Cumbersome and no longer unified. Now you MUST learn and use keyboard shortcuts to be productive. This is a step backwards IMO.

How so? Keyboard interactions will allow less distractions with the mouse.

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migo

I recall hearing similar "drivel" regarding the Ribbon in Office 2007 and lo and behold, parents, grandparents and even non-techie types are using it. If anything, the Metro Start Menu is easy for anyone to find something: whether you can't see well, not good with PCs, or are a techie-type.

Well said. The ribbon is a better UI element, and while Metro has taken a couple steps back in some areas (nothing like Aero Peek), overall it's better.

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MorganX

How so? Keyboard interactions will allow less distractions with the mouse.

1) The overwhelming majority of people do not use the Windows key at all. But the mouse, which the overwhelming majority are familiar with is not the issue here:

2) Three Windows Key options are more cumbersome than one with unified search.

Edit: You also now have to think about what you're searching for and decide which key combo to use.

I don't dislike metro at all. The kludge-like desktop implementation as it currently stands is why I am not enthusiastic about it. Metro is great on my Windows Phone and I will love it on my tablet. But I will most likely run Server 8 on my desktop if improvements aren't made.

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libertas83

Ok, has anyone actually watched videos of how to use the mouse in this new UI or actually used it. I'm tired of seeing this arugment when mouse controls was greatly enhanced in this and I haven't seen many people actually discuss it.

For example, you want your power user stuff, "Right Click" is still your friend. Go to the start menu area, right click and wow, quick access to cmd, cmd with admin access, and control panel functionality.

Hey, what about a task switcher....how do I do that in Windows 7.... crap I have to go ALT-TAB. No nice button for it, it's not mouse friendly! Dang these power users and their keyboard shortcuts. Oh cool, Windows 8, go to the top left and there is previous app....oh I move down and see thumbnail previews of several previous apps.

No....I hate Metro it's not consistent and it's only for touch, blah! Oh wait, you mean no matter from Metro or Desktop I can always access the top left for task switching, bottom right for start and power user through right click, and always go to top right and bottom right to get to charms no matter where I am. Ok.... that is too much work for a mouse!

How do I shutdown a computer, wait why I am shutting down? Power down so it quickly resumes would be nicer and not use much power, why can't I have that feature....oh it does that already. So what, I still want my shutdown! ERRRR! Windows 8 you suck you touch tablet interface with no care about me :(.

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computerpro2

One thing I don't like is not being able to delete stuff from the All Program list(without going through explorer obviously).... the last thing I want to see is every HTML page software providers decide to link to when you install their program when I scroll through a long messy list of programs!

I'm sure it will be cleaned up prior to the RC release later this year.

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MorganX

Ok, has anyone actually watched videos of how to use the mouse in this new UI or actually used it. I'm tired of seeing this arugment when mouse controls was greatly enhanced in this and I haven't seen many people actually discuss it.

For example, you want your power user stuff, "Right Click" is still your friend. Go to the start menu area, right click and wow, quick access to cmd, cmd with admin access, and control panel functionality.

Hey, what about a task switcher....how do I do that in Windows 7.... crap I have to go ALT-TAB. No nice button for it, it's not mouse friendly! Dang these power users and their keyboard shortcuts. Oh cool, Windows 8, go to the top left and there is previous app....oh I move down and see thumbnail previews of several previous apps.

No....I hate Metro it's not consistent and it's only for touch, blah! Oh wait, you mean no matter from Metro or Desktop I can always access the top left for task switching, bottom right for start and power user through right click, and always go to top right and bottom right to get to charms no matter where I am. Ok.... that is too much work for a mouse!

How do I shutdown a computer, wait why I am shutting down? Power down so it quickly resumes would be nicer and not use much power, why can't I have that feature....oh it does that already. So what, I still want my shutdown! ERRRR! Windows 8 you suck you touch tablet interface with no care about me :(.

sigh, so, dragging an app all the way to the bottom of the screen is more efficient that clicking an X? How about two browsers side by side, wait, you can do that if you choose the other IE. What if I don't want to change UI metaphors? I want a consisstend interface?

There's a lot to like, there's a lot to not like. I can't take anyone too seriously who can't see that and definitely not anyone that thinks going back to keyboard shortcuts as almost a necessity for productivity is a good thing.

I'm sure it will be cleaned up prior to the RC release later this year.

Hopefully they will clean up a lot. My career is built on MS Architecture. I know they're not stupid and they are aware of the issues. I believe they know the future is tablets but they are scared of a full frontal assault on Apple/iPad and want to leverage their desktop dominance here. That's why a UI most suitable for touch is being put on desktops (thank God not Server). We'll see how it works out.

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HawkMan

I guess it really depends a lot on what you do for work. I spend a lot of time doing video and photo editing, neither of which make much use of the keyboard. Listening to music or watching movies or videos online likewise involve very little typing. Were it not for Neowin, Facebook, or typing the occasional e-mail, I could probably go days without touching the keyboard for more than a couple of minutes a day. The funny thing is, therefore, that my web surfing actually accounts for the vast majority of my keyboard use, which is exactly the opposite of your use. Everyone is different though.

Keyboard shortcuts would make your video and foto editing far easier and faster.

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zhangm

I'm surprised that people here haven't learned from StarCraft that everything is better when you use the keyboard AND the mouse.

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Active.
No....I hate Metro it's not consistent and it's only for touch, blah! Oh wait, you mean no matter from Metro or Desktop I can always access the top left for task switching

How do you switch between tasks by going to the top left, when you're only using Desktop apps?

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migo

I'm hoping they blend the taskbar with the task switcher in the next release so that you can. For now I have the taskbar on the left and set to autohide.

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Active.

I'm hoping they blend the taskbar with the task switcher in the next release so that you can. For now I have the taskbar on the left and set to autohide.

The thing I'm worried about is them talking about the Desktop as an 'app'.

The Desktop used to be the portal to your apps, with methods for switching between them. Now, the Start screen is the portal to your apps with methods for switching between them, and the former portal to your apps is an app you can get to through the new portal, and which you can launch, and which continues to offer the old method of switching between its apps. I'm really surprised, how some people don't seem to get that this is conceptually confusing.It requires a relatively complex mental model and runs counter to Metro's goal of simplifying the user experience.

Admittedly, this isn't an issue for users who are able to stay purely in the Metro environment. I wonder how many are going to be able to do so...

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briangw

I think it's more like going from Windows 95 to WindowsMe and Windows XP to Windows Vista.

I actually don't remember anyone complaining about going from Cassette to Floppy. Floppy's were cooler than heck. They were cool when Trash-80s were cool. Let's agree to disagree not make stuff up or take an anectdotal experience with 1 guys dad and attribute it to millions.

Well, we can't say the same for your saying either. Since the Internet didn't exist for the public, we won't really know for sure, but I recall my father saying that a few of his coworkers were grumbling about it. This guy was the one I recall saying it when I witnessed my father showing off our new floppy drive.

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migo

The thing I'm worried about is them talking about the Desktop as an 'app'.

The Desktop used to be the portal to your apps, with methods for switching between them. Now, the Start screen is the portal to your apps with methods for switching between them, and the former portal to your apps is an app you can get to through the new portal, and which you can launch, and which continues to offer the old method of switching between its apps. I'm really surprised, how some people don't seem to get that this is conceptually confusing.It requires a relatively complex mental model and runs counter to Metro's goal of simplifying the user experience.

Admittedly, this isn't an issue for users who are able to stay purely in the Metro environment. I wonder how many are going to be able to do so...

I think if they want to smooth adoption of Windows 8 they're going to have to allow accessing legacy apps through the Metro task switcher, and devs could even make most of their apps with a full screen option so that users would rarely be able to tell the difference between a metro or legacy app. Something more like what RIM did with the PlayBook and the Android App Player.

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SavvyFx

How do you switch between tasks by going to the top left, when you're only using Desktop apps?

IMO that is a bug.

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Stoffel

There is something I really want to know. Since when did having a start menu become outdated?

IMO, Microsoft is doing this the wrong way. They should have done the same thing Apple did with Lion, make Metro 100% optional. In OS X Lion, there is a feature called Launchpad which brings an iOS looking screen in view. Launchpad is 100% optional.

This is a bad move by Microsoft. Windows 8 should have had Metro be 100% optional and triggered by something like Launchpad does in OS X. What we see now should have waited until Windows 9

The only thing you are proving with a statement like this is that you can't handle a big change in one go.

It's not about anything else but you having to change the way you work slightly

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