windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[Mazhar]

Just push the power button. Darn it. :p

I guess people (including me) are lazy to drop their mouse and reach to the power button.

[myxomatosis]

Paul Thurrot said so... it must be true... lol

No seriously, I've been using Windows since Windows 3.1. I've been using the Windows 98 betas, I've been using Windows Me for a while!, I've been using Windows 2000 too. And many Windows XP betas... in fact, I've been using every ****ing versions of Windows that existed (Even Win NT 4.0)... and you know what? Windows 8 is the first ever version of Windows I can't deal with. It's horrible.

I'm not Paul Thurrot, but I've been putting bread and butter on my table using a PC/Win computer for MANY MANY years... I used Win 8 for the last week and the only thing that comes to my mind is "No, something is wrong. It doesn't work". I must be an idiot by Paul Thurrot's standards, and you know what? I don't care... I will trust what I feel WAY before drinking the Paul Thurrot Kool-aid

[zhangm Supervisor]

So ... you don't see going to the lower left corner of the screeen to get back to the start menu, and intuitively thinking you should click on the start page thumbnail and moving your mouse over it causes the bar to go away and you to miss, as a problem?

Uh, no. I'm not talking about the Start screen. I'm talking about the Charms bar. The mouseover spot, which is where one monitor ends and the other one begins, isn't a huge pain, since I just use the keyboard shortcut.

[Mazhar]

Its not just the start screen people are moaning about, its the fact that the OS is going touch orientated when most of the people who will use Windows 8 will be on non-touchscreen devices.

Microsoft has already worked great for people to use Windows 8 using mouse and keyboard, it is as much fun as using touch.

[MFH]

Thought that was a nice read, but then I noticed it's from Thurott? Still don't get how he can make a living writing about technology as he's got no f*****g clue what he's talking about?

This article has as much value as if any Microsoft employee would have written it?

[Omen1393]

So ... you don't see going to the lower left corner of the screeen to get back to the start menu, and intuitively thinking you should click on the start page thumbnail and moving your mouse over it causes the bar to go away and you to miss, as a problem?

In case it hasn't been made obvious, MS is still responding to the feedback they've gotten, and the UI is in no ways final. You would like to know MorganX, I ran into the same problem with my parents. They both were completely confused at the idea of moving the mouse to the corner and how the button went away when they moved the mouse to the thumbnail. I gave the feedback to an MS employee on Reddit, and he passed the feedback on to the right people in MS. He seemed to indicate that the UI in the corners is by no means permanent. Here's just a portion of the feed back I gave him: http://www.reddit.co...xpxau?context=3

[myxomatosis]

Hey, we have been using Windows the same way for the past 20 years but ohhhh wait... it never worked! It was the wrong way of doing things!

We're idiots and we've been using something that doesn't work for the last 20 years, but hopefully, in 2011, a genius working for Microsoft came to DISCOVER what was wrong all this time: the Start Button! So he created a "Start Screen" containing colorful tiles and manking was saved, 'cause we all know that "evolution = annoying your fan base for something they never asked for!"

You know what Microsoft? I pay the bills with my computer. My job is to WORK with my computer. My job is NOT to learn new ways to work with my computer 'cause someone in your company decided I was doing it the wrong way...

[Impulseman36]

I haven't posted here in years, but I think I will chime in now. All this will come down to how much grief Microsoft gets about the changes and if they take that feedback seriously enough to make a few changes. Personally I don't care for Metro. It has been said time and time again it?s a Pad computing interface being pushed/forced on a desktop OS. Many people are going to make a pass on Windows 8 and stick with 7; I most likely will be one of them unless a few changes are made.

The best case scenario would be for Microsoft to give you the option after installing Windows 8 to choose the default interface you want to use, be it Metro or Classic Desktop. They can easily put back the Start button and Start Menu for those that prefer that interface, it will not hurt the OS but maybe it would hurt Microsoft?s pride. If you choose to use the Classic Desktop you can use and run Metro as a full screen app just like Windows Media Center. Maybe give the ability for it to be docked to the right side so you can choose the tiles you want displayed.

I have honestly given both the DP and CP a chance and I do find using some of the new features very nice. But the first thing I did was install a third party app that gives me back the Start button and the start menu. For me it?s just more intuitive this way. There is no reason why we can?t have or cake and eat it too. Microsoft must hear we the users of their products what we want, not what they want us to use and deal with. That attitude is going to be their downfall if they continue along this route. You would think they might have learned a lesson with the failure of Windows ME and for the most part Vista. I hope that they hear what people are saying and don?t just smugly push ahead with the way things are.

Oh one last thing, I find it funny that it was well announced ahead of the release that they had pulled the Start button out of the OS, which means it has been in it for some time since the DP was released. I think this was all a test to see if they could in fact get away with it. I think they are finding out that it was the wrong thing to do.

[Mazhar]

Microsoft may or may not bring back the Start Orb in Windows 8, but the Start Menu in Windows 8 does not make sense. I don't care if Start menu comes back or not, I won't use it anyways since we would have the fully functional Start Screen.

[myxomatosis]

Start Menu in Windows 8 does not make sense.

How did you live all these years with a Start Menu then? Must have been realy painful for you to use something that useless ;)

[Mazhar]

How did you live all these years with a Start Menu then? Must have been realy painful for you to use something that useless ;)

Start Menu "in Windows 8" does not make sense because Windows 8 features the Start Screen which replaces the old school start orb/menu.

[PGHammer]

I have tried it, it is installed on a separate hdd in my machine, I also had a Windows Phone 7 device which I detested also and this is just an extension of that, Metro touch has no place on a desktop pc, I don't want to use my mouse as a virtual finger.

Apart from tablets 95% of notebooks, netbooks, Ultrabooks come with Windows 7, so um what?

They are doing this to try and take some of the tablet market which will never happen in a trillion years at the expense of the desktop users, I hope this doesnt come back to bite them in the ass.

Forking doesn't work, and pretty much hasn't worked - not only not in Microsoft's previous attempts, but it didn't work for Google, either - so why are you insisting that Microsoft do so?

The only folks that are having trouble with the Windows 8 UI are those heavily chained (and apparently willingly) to the Start menu paradigm that has existed since Windows 9x. The one overwhelming commonality I'm hearing from the detractors is "I don't want change!"

Let me remind the detractors of something: Microsoft, as a public company, has to take into account the trends of hardware sales - not just now, but five and more years down the road. Desktop computing (the desktop form-factor in particular) is under assault. It's all about portable computing. One detractor tried to say that Ultrabooks and netbooks still use mice - they CAN use mice (they still have USB ports), however, most have trackpads and touchpads (migrated down from notebooks and laptops, where they have been standard fare since before XP). In other words, Microsoft is late - embarrassingly late, in fact - in terms of embracing touch in the OS.

Moe and more of the users I support have portable computers - with touchpads and trackpads - and if I want to keep those users, I have to deal with that paradigm, despite having a desktop computer personally. In other words, it's no longer about me.

Can you use VLC with a touchpad or trackpad? Yes, you can - quite a few on Neowin do. Basically, the apps and applications don't care.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the trend toward touch is not an option for Microsoft. It's also no longer an option for the folks that support computers, either.

Get off the danged Royal Barge on the Egyptian river already.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Microsoft has already worked great for people to use Windows 8 using mouse and keyboard, it is as much fun as using touch.

You know what else is fun? Games! They have new and unknown elements, are challenging and throw surprises at you, require you to come up with and remember clever ways to achieve a goal.

UIs on the other hand are supposed to be usable, consistent, well-designed, without surprises and not be challenging or require training to achieve simple goals.

So do you think Windows 8 is more like the former or more like the latter?

Moe and more of the users I support have portable computers - with touchpads and trackpads - and if I want to keep those users, I have to deal with that paradigm, despite having a desktop computer personally. In other words, it's no longer about me.

Touchpads and trackpads can't be compared to a touch screen. You're still moving a cursor.

[SavvyFx]

You know what else is fun? Games! They have new and unknown elements, are challenging and throw surprises at you, require you to come up with and remember clever ways to achieve a goal.

UIs on the other hand are supposed to be usable, consistent, well-designed, without surprises and not be challenging or require training to achieve simple goals.

So do you think Windows 8 is more like the former or more like the latter?

Windows 8 is definitely the later. It is consistent across all of their major platforms (Xbox, WP7, Windows).

[trag3dy]

Start Menu "in Windows 8" does not make sense because Windows 8 features the Start Screen which replaces the old school start orb/menu.

The question is, why can't we have both? I don't get why people get their panties in a twist when others say they want the old (win7) start menu. Like metro? Fantastic! Like the old start menu? Also fantastic! Use what you like.

But then I guess people wouldn't be forced to change just for the sake of change.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

It is consistent across all of their major platforms (Xbox, WP7, Windows).

Yes, and I've made a post about that kind of misplaced consistency before. I'm talking about having an interface that is consistent in itself, not across devices. And it is misplaced, because all of these devices offer different input methods and vastly different screen sizes, therefore the UI shouldn't be an exact replica (as is the case with Metro on tablets vs. desktops).

Again, you could have claimed that Windows XP or 7 was consistent across tablets and PCs. But how is that a positive? It obviously wasn't we'll suited for tablets.

[SavvyFx]

Yes, and I've made a post about that kind of misplaced consistency before. I'm talking about having an interface that is consistent in itself, not across devices. And it is misplaced, because all of these devices offer different input methods and vastly different screen sizes, therefore the UI shouldn't be an exact replica (as is the case with Metro on tablets vs. desktops).

Again, you could have claimed that Windows XP or 7 was consistent across tablets and PCs. But how is that a positive? It obviously wasn't we'll suited for tablets.

I've made a post how that kind of consistency is a way to unite and integrate the systems across the offerings. The philosophy is consistent, the exact execution is not.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

that kind of consistency is a way to unite and integrate the systems across the offerings.

Definitely sounds like something Microsoft would say. ;)

[SavvyFx]

Definitely sounds like something Microsoft would say. ;)

I should get a job in PR ;)

The question is, why can't we have both? I don't get why people get their panties in a twist when others say they want the old (win7) start menu. Like metro? Fantastic! Like the old start menu? Also fantastic! Use what you like.

Many many posts have covered this. I have posted reasons, above on this page a user describes the problems with forking UX. It's been covered.

But then I guess people wouldn't be forced to change just for the sake of change.

Microsoft have written comprehensive blog posts about the changes. Another reason for the difficulties in migrating UX is people such as yourself making comments such as above with absolute ignorance and complete disregard.

[trag3dy]

I should get a job in PR ;)

Many many posts have covered this. I have posted reasons, above on this page a user describes the problems with forking UX. It's been covered.

Microsoft have written comprehensive blog posts about the changes. Another reason for the difficulties in migrating UX is people such as yourself making comments such as above with absolute ignorance and complete disregard.

Well I'm convinced. I'll rush out and buy windows 8 when it's done even though I don't like the direction microsoft is taking it because it's the future! Charge full speed ahead and no looking back!

[Mazhar]

You know what else is fun? Games! They have new and unknown elements, are challenging and throw surprises at you, require you to come up with and remember clever ways to achieve a goal.

UIs on the other hand are supposed to be usable, consistent, well-designed, without surprises and not be challenging or require training to achieve simple goals.

So do you think Windows 8 is more like the former or more like the latter?

What surprises? Corners? Charms? Once you know it, it isn't a surprise anymore. There is no training required and if there is then what the hack, do not you use game Tutorials to learn how to play game? And when you learn it, its fun.

The question is, why can't we have both? I don't get why people get their panties in a twist when others say they want the old (win7) start menu. Like metro? Fantastic! Like the old start menu? Also fantastic! Use what you like.

But then I guess people wouldn't be forced to change just for the sake of change.

There is no actual USE of Start Menu when you have the FULL FUNCTIONAL Start Screen. You use start menu to pin items and access shortcuts, right? You can do the same things in Start Screen with having some more fantastic features.

[SavvyFx]

Well I'm convinced. I'll rush out and buy windows 8 when it's done even though I don't like the direction microsoft is taking it because it's the future! Charge full speed ahead and no looking back!

Cool, I think you'll enjoy it!

[Chancellor of Grey]

Sounds like he's a little too butthurt that people aren't drooling over Win 8.

After reading that blurb, I'd have to say that he's quite an ignorant as*hole. People aren't complaining like crazy for no reason. Plain and simple, it was stupid to make such drastic changes and completely overhaul the Windows we're come to learn over the past 20 years. Microsoft doesn't always know what's right. The users and developers determine that, and we can all see where their standpoint is thus far...

I think he's simply pointing out the absurdity of trying to get back the old Start menu. Betas exist for the sole purpose of being tested as is and providing feedback. If you don't like it, install Windows 7 back. Simple.

[trag3dy]

There is no actual USE of Start Menu when you have the FULL FUNCTIONAL Start Screen. You use start menu to pin items and access shortcuts, right? You can do the same things in Start Screen with having some more fantastic features.

Except for the part where it's full screen and ugly as hell. Sure. I don't see why it's to much to ask to get all of the other great features of windows 8 without the ugly metro start screen.

Cool, I think you'll enjoy it!

Yeah...no.

[paesan]

I usually do not like Paul's articles but this one is spot on. I have not turned off my pc for years now, it is called sleep, hybrid sleep, hibernate. This is 2012 and modern computers have this function. If someone finds it necessary to shutdown, 1 extra click is causing all this fuss, omg!! My initial impression of Win8CP was not very good but I actually took some time to learn the new UI. I have tried the new 3rd party apps that bring the start screen back and have found that I like the new Metro UI better. The one thing I say to people I know that have tried it is at least try to learn the new UI. If after spending the proper time to learn the new UI and then you still don't like it then that is a fair assessment. How can anyone judge any kind of OS, electronic device, etc without learning it first. I find that in life many people hate change because it just takes time to adapt.