windows 8 Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Call for Common Sense

[Guest xiphi]

How the hell am I making **** up? Even just now I managed to somehow accidently trigger the Charms, and, again, I paused because I had no idea wtf caused it. Anytime I pause because something unexpected happened is a break in the workflow. I'm sorry you just don't see it that way.

[pack34]

1) he shouldn't have to slam anything

2) it is very easy to trigger the charm bar or start/prev app thumbnails by going to any corner for any reason other to trigger them

It's not FUD, it's real. And yes, it would break your workflow if going to the right corner to close is part of it.

One of the first things many many people have done for years with monitor, gpu, and mouse software if "disable" hotspots which have typically been in corners, for that reason. To me, hot "corners" is a step backwards. Auto-hiding taskbar was just about right for me.

1.) He doesn't have to

2.) That would be a good thing

The charms do not actually interfere with anything. The preview of the charms in no way prevents you from minimizing, maximizing or closing a window. The charms being on the screen can not be interacted with until you activate them by moving the cursor along the edge of the screen. Saying that the charms prevents you from closing a window is factually incorrect. It simply doesn't

How the hell am I making **** up? Even just now I managed to somehow accidently trigger the Charms, and, again, I paused because I had no idea wtf caused it. Anytime I pause because something unexpected happened is a break in the workflow. I'm sorry you just don't see it that way.

If this happens constantly to you, how the **** did it surprise you after the first time? It happens every single time your cursor hits the corner. It being "surprising" and "breaking workflow" would be a you problem.

Did you not read up on anything about the operating system before you downloaded and installed the beta?

[Detection]

Well I have just reinstalled 7 after a solid 18/7 testing of WCP since its release, I'm leaving it installed on my laptop but the second I hit Start and the normal menu appeared, it was like someone had just stopped slapping me around the face with a partially smoked haddock

I no longer fear clicking the start button :D

Its nice n all that jazz but going back to 7 brings everything back into perspective into just how much you had to mess around with 8 to use it as a main OS

[MorganX]

The charms being on the screen can not be interacted with until you activate them by moving the cursor along the edge of the screen. Saying that the charms prevents you from closing a window is factually incorrect. It simply doesn't

The Charm bar popping up distracting you when you had no intention of activating it, but did due to bad UI design, definitely breaks your concentration and workflow. It simply does. The fact that he can close the Windows in spite of the Charm bar is correct but sloppy.

[pack34]

The Charm bar popping up distracting you when you had no intention of activating it, but did due to bad UI design, definitely breaks your concentration and workflow. It simply does. The fact that he can close the Windows in spite of the Charm bar is correct but sloppy.

Sounds like a "you problem".

They don't even fully appear if you click right away. You know it's going to appear when you go into the corner. If that breaks your concentration it's a problem with you, it simply is.

[MorganX]

Its nice n all that jazz but going back to 7 brings everything back into perspective into just how much you had to mess around with 8 to use it as a main OS

Therein lies the problem. To many little things are a step backwards. Sure you can learn to make do with the limitations of they hybrid Metro/Desktop, but why? Clearly, Metro is not suited for high productivity desktop computing with this kludgy implementation.

It's not that people can't change or don't like it. Metro is slick. Love it on my many Windows Phones and it will Rock on tablets. But if it's going to make you do more work, why force it on the desktop. And all those little distrations, extra drags, clicks, and not almost must use shortcut keys, that adds up in the enterprise to much more support and wasted time. This is typically not what we expect from Windows and it is what doomed Vista.

Sounds like a "you problem"

Sounds like you now have nothing intelligent to say. Whatever man. Learn to agree to disagree, don't descend into the realm of the uneducated.

[Guest xiphi]

I'm flabbergasted. An issue with how the OS works is suddenly a problem with the user? How the hell does that begin to even make ANY sense? I think it's safe to say that the conversation is over at that point.

[pack34]

Sounds like you now have nothing intelligent to say. Whatever man. Learn to agree to disagree, don't descend into the realm of the uneducated.

:rolleyes:

Valid complaints on one thing but making up issues is something completely different. What else would you call a problem that occurs consistently that has absolutely no impact on usability that only constitutes a faded white image that appears on the screen for a fraction of a second. As soon as you click the charm preview goes away, it never even fully appears.

It in no way changes the way you interact with the computer to close a program. If you're surprised and distracted even though you know it's going to happen and it happens every single time and is no way random, how else would you classify it? It's predictable and consistent. Maybe you might have a point if you have a bad case of ADD, but at least complain about something with more substance.

I'm flabbergasted. An issue with how the OS works is suddenly a problem with the user? How the hell does that begin to even make ANY sense? I think it's safe to say that the conversation is over at that point.

I'm saying it's a fabricated issue. If you want to complain about something with the OS, at least find something that actually affects the way you interact with the OS negatively. Something like this is similar to "OMG they moved a pixel, I can no longer use windows!"

Using hot corners in the way that Windows 8 uses them makes a lot of sense. Especially when you consider the increased number of use cases and hardware the OS is designed to work on. Using the corners and edges allows a consistent usage pattern when using your fingers or using a mouse and keyboard. The only other viable option would be to have large buttons in all four corners which would necessitate the addition of a second task bar, a menu bar or notification bar. This would make the desktop much more cramped and make it too reminiscent of OSX. This leads into why there's no longer a divider for the "show desktop button" and that there's no more start button. It would make the interface inconstant to have buttons on the bottom and hot corners at the top.

If you don't like it, then you don't like it but to complain it's a workflow breaker is seriously a stretch.

[Elliott]

Sounds like a "you problem".

Tenet #1 of the Windows 8 Bible: When somebody presents a real issue with the UI or UX of Windows 8, he or she shall be labeled a change-averse idiot.

[efjay]

Must be Friday, the FUD is flying thick and fast today. :)

[Dot Matrix]

Check it out, and tell me what you think:

A less scary default Start Screen: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1061012-windows-8-consumer-preview-discussion/page__st__1395__p__594717386#entry594717386

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Check it out, and tell me what you think:

A less scary default Start Screen: http://www.neowin.ne...#entry594717386

They'll never do that, considering how much they made fun of Apple's 'grid of icons'.

By the way, are they intentionally shrinking the icons for app tiles so much just to make Metro tiles look better in comparison?!

[K3v1NR]

Just downloaded Win 8 i swore i had seen this before, then I remembered....

[Wyn6]

Just figured out a quick way to view all apps on the start screen via the keyboard.

Hit any character at all and then hit esc.

It will display all apps.

Not exactly intuitive but it's faster than using charms.

ctrl+z

I call FUD. Full screen a window and slam your cursor to the top right and click. It will close the window. At this point the charms are just an overlay and quickly disappear. They in no way interfere with closing a window.

Agreed. Charms ONLY activate if you actually slide over them. Otherwise, they disappear. MS said they designed it to act this way so that if you don't slide over the Charms they assume you didn't mean to select the bar and it fades away.

[MorganX]

Otherwise, they disappear. MS said they designed it to act this way so that if you don't slide over the Charms they assume you didn't mean to select the bar and it fades away.

This in and of itself validates the original poster's issue. So it is not FUD. Microsoft is aware of the problem and built in their best workaround as opposed to redesigning that element of the UI. The original poster is basically saying, despite this workaround, the problem Microsoft half-heartedly addressed breaks his workflow routinely.

I actually found this to be an issue for me, and with all Metro apps being full screen, it will bug many. It is an annoyance for some, accepted and apparently excused by others. But clearly it is an issue. Microsoft's workaround is either acceptable or unacceptable to you.

[Wakers]

Are there actually people out there that consider themselves power users that don't use keyboard shortcuts whenever possible?

[Woelfel]

This thread is hilarious.

[Guest xiphi]

Are there actually people out there that consider themselves power users that don't use keyboard shortcuts whenever possible?

Being a power user doesn't always mean you use keyboard shortcuts. It just means using the most comfortable option available to you for the given task. For instance, I always use the keyboard shortcuts for copy and pasting. I just feel more comfortable that way.

[MorganX]

Being a power user doesn't always mean you use keyboard shortcuts. It just means using the most comfortable option available to you for the given task. For instance, I always use the keyboard shortcuts for copy and pasting. I just feel more comfortable that way.

Unified Search is no shortcut, just start typing at Start Screen or Windows Key once and start typing just like Win 7.

You can't swipe with mouse but, and this is going back in time, the PgUp and PgDn keys will swipe an entire Start Page screen. You finally have a use for all those extra buttons on your mouse. Map a couple comfortable ones to PgUp/PgDn and it starts to become useable. Unfortunately this does not work in other apps so far like the Xbox apps :/ You can actually Ctrl-Left/Right Arrow in the Xbox apps but they'll freeze if you keep doing it.

[Jabuck]

Couple extra clicks??!! Try to use the hot spots on a virtual machine in Hyper-V!

And again, your brain is not looking at the big picture. If you had ONE server, no big deal. I take care of over 400 servers on a daily basis. I probably reboot a server 10 - 30 times a DAY between all the different machines I work on and that doesn't include all of the virtual servers.

Or. How about the initial setup and deploying of server, installing drivers, installing software, registry and policy changes... Reboot, reboot, reboot.

the hotspots work fine in a normal install (well not with multiple monitors). Anyway, its not a finished product so i'd like to think that it will work fine when its finally released.

[bjoswald]

Ah, the good ol' MSN network theme from the 90s is back. History does repeat itself after all. :rolleyes:

[Mazhar]

I was giving you Search Scenario. I know about left corner and not so obvious to Average Joe but guess you don't get it.

Average Joe won't use Event Viewer nor that menu having advanced features.

[KeeperOfThePizza]

I always liked Microsoft and Windows. Loved metro ui on the phone.. I completely hate it on the desktop.. and I would imagine the average user would feel annoyed and as a tester.. I find the user interface annoying and multi-tasking on it is annoying. Just how I feel.. don't take it personal fan boys.

[Wyn6]

A walk down Memory Lane from when XP came out.

http://groups.google...08e53cf74bc7b7b

Just some excerpts:

"Microsoft work hard to improve technology which will ultimately improve our

productivity and indeed lives. They spend a lot of time and indeed money

doing the donkey`s work of either writing drivers or working closely with

the many many hundreds if not thousands of manufacturers for what is a huge

backlog of hardware in order to get drivers incorporated into the latest

operating system as standard.

Some companies however go out of business are impossible to find or just

have not yet got round to assisting Microsoft in writing drivers for their

new operating system some will never as they don`t have the resources to do

so - when you buy hardware one factor must always be support a $2 network

card from a 2 bit company probably won`t have XP drivers out at launch or

indeed at all - but if it isn`t supported Microsoft compatibility program

will give you fair warning.

Microsoft have done very well in XP better than ever before my laptop now

has all drivers included as standard 98/2000/ME required downloads from HP`s

site.

All this and you get idiots who blame Microsoft when after ignoring warnings

there system doesn`t work right."

And, the other side...

"Well I hate it. I hate the way it works and I hate the way it looks - The

interface is a digusting piece of OS-X wannabe crap IMO.

Talk about losing control of the machine.

I'm sticking to Win2000 thanks."

Look familiar?

[Astrum]

I have absolutely no objections with it for a tablet, but that's why Apple has a desktop OS and a tablet OS, because making them the same would be absolutely stupid, as seen here. The tablet OS can even be a full Windows with Metro on top, like Win 8 is, but the desktop really has no need for a huge Metro start screen.

Totally agree.

I think Metro UI gives more constrains than freedom options, and that is its key trouble. It looks like a push of MS corporate intelligence over common sense.