Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[XX55XX]

I hate how knee-jerk Microsoft's reaction has been to Apple's lead in the tablet market. "Oh **** we need to make Windows a tablet OS or else we lose the tablet war!"

The result? We get a crappy OS that attempts to merge the mouse and keyboard desktop with a touch interface. I've been using Windows 8 all day today, and while it's usable and has many great under the hood changes for the desktop (new Task Manager is one of them), I wonder why Microsoft merged these two UIs in the first place and is forcing Metro upon the desktop user.

When I logged into Windows 8 for the first time, I was faced with a hideous lock screen that took me several minutes to figure out that I had to slide the lock screen upwards to access the login screen. Wouldn't a direct jump to the login prompt been simpler?

Does Microsoft itself even know why they haven't changed the start menu in the past twenty years? Because it works, it's efficient, and it's damned intuitive for people operating with a mouse and keyboard.

I hate the say it, but Apple's Mountain Lion is the best example of how tablet features should be integrated into a desktop OS without destroying overall usability.

And I adopted Vista at launch five years ago and defended Microsoft on the Internet. If geeks can raise a big stink about Vista five years ago, we need to do the same for Windows 8 when it launches. I refuse to use Windows 8 outside of a tablet environment. The idea that Microsoft would destroy desktop usability just to dip its toes into the tablet war and force developers to develop Metro apps is inane and ill-advised.

Guess I will be staying with Windows 7 on the desktop for the next several years.

[jakem1]

Microsoft started working on Windows 8 before the iPad was even released ;) Metro is a key part of Microsoft's three screens and a cloud strategy which dates back to 2008/2009.

[Vice]

You make great points XX55XX. I agree with all of them.

[XX55XX]

Microsoft started working on Windows 8 before the iPad was even released ;) Metro is a key part of Microsoft's three screens and a cloud strategy which dates back to 2008/2009.

If anything, Metro is a waste of space on the desktop. And it fatigues my right hand because I have to swipe so much. It's counter-intuitive on a mouse and keyboard and I don't understand why Microsoft has abandoned twenty plus years of desktop UI standards in an inane attempt to usher in "the new age of computing" and fight Apple.

I was hoping for Metro to replace Aero as a general OS aesthetic, but not the UI.

If they kept both UIs separate, then I would be fine. But to merge them together? Even the MS fanboy within me can't rationalize why Microsoft is doing what their doing.

Tablets are great for many applications, but ultimately, much of the heavy lifting is done on a desktop. The post-PC era is false. We are merely moving into an era of ubiquitous computing, where we have a desktop at work, and a tablet or smartphone on the go. The dichotomy is only breached by cloud synchronization via services like Dropbox.

[Calum Veteran]

"Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?"

Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it. They didn't separate the Metro experience from the Desktop experience because the Metro experience works very well on desktop and notebook PCs. Both are there, rather than just the Metro experience, because the Desktop is needed for some programs and features. Many of us would miss out tremendously if Microsoft didn't include the Metro experience on desktop and notebook PCs. I'd for sure switch to Mac OS X, if Windows 8 on desktops and notebooks consisted of just the Desktop experience, and that is because I quite dislike the Windows 7 and Windows 8 Desktop experiences (especially compared to the Windows 8 Metro experience).

[MorganX]

"Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?"

Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it. They didn't separate the Metro experience from the Desktop experience because the Metro experience works very well on desktop and notebook PCs. Both are there, rather than just the Metro experience, because the Desktop is needed for some programs and features.

It is a touch interface. It is barely passable "without" touch.

[Melfster]

Well look at how well Android tablet is doing it is a Complete MESS. All my friends are ditching Android on the Tablet left and right. Samsung themselves have said they are not making any money on it. The only tablet that seems to be doing all right is the kindle fire. But since it uses a proprietary version android. I don't it will add very much to the Android ecosystem. If hardware is designed right you will have the best of both worlds. Microsoft a lot work work to optimize Metro. It still feels really unfinished. Its big if Microsoft and the hardware makers get it right then it will revitalize the PC space. If they get it wrong then people will just ignore it. But still think it is still to early to make judgments.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Microsoft started working on Windows 8 before the iPad was even released ;) Metro is a key part of Microsoft's three screens and a cloud strategy which dates back to 2008/2009.

Sure, MIcrosoft has been developing Windows 8 for a while, but to say the iPad has had no influence on its development is illogical and false. Microsoft, and their OEM customers, have been watching the iPad and this is their attempt to counter it. I agree Microsoft needed to come had like they are doing on a tablet, but like XX55XX said it should have stopped at the tablet.

If anything, I'm amazed that Microsoft didn't release a Windows Phone OS based tablet at launch of Windows Phone. The model Apple took was the most logical one to take. Pull the Mobile OS up from the phone to the tablet, after all the use cases are very similar. Microsoft is pulling the desktop down to the tablet in an attempt to fight and it is just plain backwards. They haven't even yet announced a clear story on app compatibility between Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 tablets. This was a major boon to the iPad, you have access to all of your iPhone apps.

To be honest, I'm amazed at this goof by Microsoft. The only thing I can do now is watch how this mess will play out.

[Vice]

Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it.

I think it is you that does not understand it.

[Calum Veteran]

It is a touch interface. It is barely passable "without" touch.

Have you used it? The Metro experience works great with my notebook's keyboard and trackpad. It is not "a touch interface." It is an interface that is optimised for touch but that also works great with nontouch input devices.

[XX55XX]

"Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?"

Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it. They didn't separate the Metro experience from the Desktop experience because the Metro experience works very well on desktop and notebook PCs. Both are there, rather than just the Metro experience, because the Desktop is needed for some programs and features. Many of us would miss out tremendously if Microsoft didn't include the Metro experience on desktop and notebook PCs. I'd for sure switch to Mac OS X, if Windows 8 on desktops and notebooks consisted of just the Desktop experience, and that is because I quite dislike the Windows 7 and Windows 8 Desktop experiences (especially compared to the Windows 8 Metro experience).

Then why did they get rid of the start menu on the desktop? I do not find Metro a suitable alternative to the start menu, since it requires so much right to left scrolling just to find stuff. And no, keyboard shortcuts to bring up the search bar to find my application is not a suitable alternative.

Microsoft should have segregated both systems of input into two distinct OSs that share a common kernel. One for the tablet, the other for desktops/laptops That should be it. Or, they could make Metro more mouse and keyboard friendly.

I'm not digging it at all.

[Calum Veteran]

I think it is you that does not understand it.

Despite the fact that Microsoft have pointed out and explained why it works like this, and despite the fact that I have had no problems using it on my notebook?

That's a pretty silly remark to make, considering I've had no problems using it.

[~Johnny]

When I logged into Windows 8 for the first time, I was faced with a hideous lock screen that took me several minutes to figure out that I had to slide the lock screen upwards to access the login screen.

Really now? And you at no point during that time thought about touching the keyboard at all? Because basically any key press puts the lock screen away :p

Regardless, just because it works with tablets, does not mean it's at tablet UI and not a desktop UI. They didn't decided to make it touch first, mouse & keyboard second. It was designed with everyone in mind at the same time.

Then why did they get rid of the start menu on the desktop? I do not find Metro a suitable alternative to the start menu, since it requires so much right to left scrolling just to find stuff. And no, keyboard shortcuts to bring up the search bar to find my application is not a suitable alternative.

And the desktop start menu requires so much scrolling up and down? Heck, you don't even need to use the scrollbars on the new start screen, you just have to move your mouse.

[HawkMan]

What tablet UI ? there is no tablet UI.

There is one universal design language and UI called Metro that works equally well on tablets as well as desktops and laptops controlled with Mice.

There's nothing the start screen can't do that the start menu can. well jump lists which according to usage statistics by MS was used by less than 0.1% of the userbase.

as for why they don't maintain two completely different codebases and two different usage paradigms that do the same thign instead of focus their resources on the one that's better newer and uses less resources. Well, think about it, the clue is in there. Twice as many developers, twice as many bugs, half the performance, 4 times the QnA(at least), twice the bloat. two usage paradigms confusing users instead of one universal one across all devices.

Also on the lock screen. ever tried the "enter" key, the universal key that you always use when logging into a computer ?

[XX55XX]

Despite the fact that Microsoft have pointed out and explained why it works like this, and despite the fact that I have had no problems using it on my notebook?

That's a pretty silly remark to make, considering I've had no problems using it.

Then why should we have to swipe upwards just to access the login screen? Why the emphasis on swiping? Why is the start menu gone?

I understand it's beta software and all, but given that Windows 8 is launching in less than a year, I believe Microsoft is just fixing bugs and adding a few more features before it ships.

Ugh. I never thought the day would come when I would ever criticize Microsoft so harshly. And it's over UI issues.

[KevinN206]

It is a touch interface. It is barely passable "without" touch.

If that's the case, then I must be superman. I have not idea how I've managed so far with the preview apps on KB/mouses/touchpad.

[~Johnny]

Then why should we have to swipe upwards just to access the login screen? Why the emphasis on swiping? Why is the start menu gone?

1 - You don't have to swipe. Just press anything on your keyboard...

2 - That's the only place in the OS where the mouse actually has that sort of gesture. There's no emphasis on it. There's scroll bars, but there's always been scrollbars.

3 - *insert start screen here*

[Vice]

Despite the fact that Microsoft have pointed out and explained why it works like this, and despite the fact that I have had no problems using it on my notebook?

That's a pretty silly remark to make, considering I've had no problems using it.

Well I have had problems using it on my desktop computer. So since it's your experience against mine neither win. And microsoft can claim whatever they want. Apple claims their operating system is the best but many of us would disagree with that. Microsoft can say their Windows 8 is designed for Desktops but when you have to swipe the login screen up it is clearly indicating it was designed for a touch interface and a finger.

Whenever you see a part of Windows 8 that lacks a visual button, icon or box that is hidden behind a screen gesture that is a sign that it was designed for tablets and not for a mouse and keyboard. Keep this in mind, the cursor of the mouse on a Desktop or Notebook is always on the screen. This is the reason checkboxes, search fields, icons and other visual information is also always present. You do not hold down the button on your mouse as you move it around, you simply move the cursor to the object you want and then click. Finger touch is not like that, it is expected of you to always place your finger down on the screen to select, swipe and move things around.

This is the major difference. Just look at Metros huge tiles these are designed for large fingers, look at the swiping you have to do to login, access menus on the bottom and right of the screen. None of it is intuitive to a mouse and keyboard it is all designed for finger gestures. If you can't see that you're blind. I don't mean to offend you but that's just the facts.

[jakem1]

Sure, MIcrosoft has been developing Windows 8 for a while, but to say the iPad has had no influence on its development is illogical and false. Microsoft, and their OEM customers, have been watching the iPad and this is their attempt to counter it. I agree Microsoft needed to come had like they are doing on a tablet, but like XX55XX said it should have stopped at the tablet.

If anything, I'm amazed that Microsoft didn't release a Windows Phone OS based tablet at launch of Windows Phone. The model Apple took was the most logical one to take. Pull the Mobile OS up from the phone to the tablet, after all the use cases are very similar. Microsoft is pulling the desktop down to the tablet in an attempt to fight and it is just plain backwards. They haven't even yet announced a clear story on app compatibility between Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 tablets. This was a major boon to the iPad, you have access to all of your iPhone apps.

To be honest, I'm amazed at this goof by Microsoft. The only thing I can do now is watch how this mess will play out.

I'm sure that Microsoft have drawn some inspiration from the iPad but the OP was wrong to suggest that Windows 8 is simply a knee-jerk reaction to it.

As for your other points, there's a huge number of potential customers who want a single device that offers the flexibility of a tablet plus the power of a laptop. Windows 8 is currently the only OS that truly offers that. Like Callum said above, I don't see that the two interfaces have to be mutually exclusive and it's clear that they can work well together. Alternatively, the OS is flexible enough that a tablet user doesn't ever have to leave the Metro environment and a PC user can stick to their desktop environment if they want. What's not to like?

[Calum Veteran]

Then why should we have to swipe upwards just to access the login screen? Why the emphasis on swiping? Why is the start menu gone?

[. . .]

You don't have to swipe up to access the login screen :blink: As I mentioned in my previous post, you do not understand Windows 8, unfortunately, and your claim of having to swipe up to access the login screen further proves that.

To access the login screen, all you have to do is press a keyboard button (I usually press Enter).

The Start Menu has been removed because it is not required (due to the more superior Start Screen). The Start Screen is a great way to launch programs and it's easy to find programs there, especially due to the search feature (if you haven't pinned your most used apps and websites).

[MorganX]

If that's the case, then I must be superman. I have not idea how I've managed so far with the preview apps on KB/mouses/touchpad.

The fact that we manage to use it iwth a KB/Mouse/Touchpad doesn't change the fact that it's a touch interface. Get yourself a touch mouse and see your productivity rise. Get a touchscreen and see it rise, and it will do great on tablets because that is what it was designed for along with phones.

Hence, it is much more efficient to use keyboard shortcuts. We will manage it regardless, but without a doubt it is a touch interface. I'm not sure why anyone would attempt to deny this it won't change the reality.

Edit: speaking of preview apps. How about right clicking on an email in Mail and having to go ALL THE WAY to the bottom of the screen for a context sensitive menu. Horrendous. I assume this will change. On a tablet this might not be "as" bad.

[RommelS]

Yes, Windows 8 is segregated, and it is called WOA (Windows On ARM), where your current x86 applications has no backward compatibilities.

[Vice]

You don't have to swipe up to access the login screen :blink: As I mentioned in my previous post, you do not understand Windows 8, unfortunately, and your claim of having to swipe up to access the login screen further proves that.

To access the login screen, all you have to do is press a keyboard button (I usually press Enter).

The Start Menu has been removed because it is not required (due to the more superior Start Screen). The Start Screen is a great way to launch programs and it's easy to find programs there, especially due to the search feature (if you haven't pinned your most used apps and websites).

Even though you can press a keyboard button to get passed the swipe screen, the mere fact the swipe screen is there in the first place shows it is designed for tablets. What need is that intermediary screen other than to add a home screen for tablets? The whole point of that screen is to provide a "slide to unlock" function that is present on iOS. That is plain as day. A tablet doesn't have a physical keyboard which is why that screen goes away when you press a key but that isn't intuitive and the screen shouldn't even be there in the first place on a desktop/notebook.

And if you say the Start Menu is not required then surely Metro which is merely a Start Menu replacement isn't needed either.

[KevinN206]

Then why should we have to swipe upwards just to access the login screen? Why the emphasis on swiping? Why is the start menu gone?

I understand it's beta software and all, but given that Windows 8 is launching in less than a year, I believe Microsoft is just fixing bugs and adding a few more features before it ships.

Ugh. I never thought the day would come when I would ever criticize Microsoft so harshly. And it's over UI issues.

On a desktop computer, the lock screen doesn't need to be swiped up with a mouse. You've 3 ways to unlock your desktop.

1. Press any key on the keyboard and the lockscreen slides up revealing the password box. Since your hand is already on the keyboard, you can just literally start typing the password.

2. Grab the lockscreen with the mouse and drag up.

3. If your monitor has a touchscreen, use your finger and drag the lockscreen up.

I actually like the lockscreen with the giant clock and notifications. The first I know after booting up is any new messages, new mail, new calendar events, etc.. all without logging in. Windows 8 connect to the network very quickly, so it's able to deliver all these notifications pretty much immediately.

[br0adband]

ITT: yet another person making assumptions based on a late alpha/beta/preview version of the OS with no absolute proof or comment from anyone at Microsoft in the know that says "We are going to make this as it is right now in this preview version and that's that."

It's a preview, folks, things are still in a state of flux.