Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[insanelyapple]

"Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?" Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it. They didn't separate the Metro experience from the Desktop experience because the Metro experience works very well on desktop and notebook PCs. Both are there, rather than just the Metro experience, because the Desktop is needed for some programs and features. Many of us would miss out tremendously if Microsoft didn't include the Metro experience on desktop and notebook PCs. I'd for sure switch to Mac OS X, if Windows 8 on desktops and notebooks consisted of just the Desktop experience, and that is because I quite dislike the Windows 7 and Windows 8 Desktop experiences (especially compared to the Windows 8 Metro experience).

Please, please - stop doing such a thing and telling us that we don't understand just because we believe that pushing tablet/touch ui into classic desktop is plainly wrong idea; i prefectly understand why Microsoft pushes Metro into desktop - just because they don't have any better idea for their next operating system and they switched to the faster release cycle after delay between XP and Vista, which pushes them to sell their top product in 2-3 year cycle. Stop doing metrollvangelism.

[HawkMan]

This is the major difference. Just look at Metros huge tiles these are designed for large fingers,

No, they make touch easier, but it's not their primary or only purpose. their primary purpose is as live information tiles. If they had been designed just for touch, they would have been 1/4th the size.

[psreloaded]

No, they make touch easier, but it's not their primary or only purpose. their primary purpose is as live information tiles. If they had been designed just for touch, they would have been 1/4th the size.

I am sure that if they wanted they could have incorporated this live update feature into shortcuts in Aero. Metro was conceived for touch devices and so is touch centric. With a mouse, i feel I am better off without it.

[HawkMan]

How's about you don't speak for anyone apart from yourself, Callum.

IMO. And how I use my computer, I assure you, Metro does not work. I don't like it, I don't find it easy to use, I don't find it helpful for my productivity. Personally, I think MS has completely dropped the ball. They are being arrogant, they are forcing this major change on their users without actually seeing what their users think.

Which doesn't make any sense from the haters. since you can use the start screen EXACTLY like the start menu, except you have a massive list of your favorite apps instead of a tiny list of 7 or 8 favorite(pinned) apps. And a far better search for when you're openign any of the others, or alternatively a nice categorized all apps.

this is no different to the start menu, just quicker access to more of your most used/important programs. This is an evolution and joining of the start menu and the pinned taskbar. created form what they learned from how people use their computers with anonymous usage statistics, people never use the start menu, they use pinned apps, on the taskbar or the start menu.

[HawkMan]

I thought Vista was fine also. Drivers weren't an issue for me either.

Haha soooo true!

There is no familiarity! Screw all this PC 2.0 bullsh*t, I want something I can easily navigate around in. Metro is simply not good enough for a power user.

For example - Try finding the classic control panel in the Metro UI, or even the Desktop environment without having to resort to searching in the Metro UI. That's something power users / geeks will be going to most days of their Windows 8 life....

Windows 7 -

1. Start menu

2. Control Panel

Windows 8 -

1. Press Desktop on the Metro UI

2. Go to the libraries icon on the taskbar

3. Press Computer on the left file tree

4. Hover over the first tab (skip this step if you prefer the ribbon expanded like me)

5. Press Control Panel

2 or 3 extra unnecessary steps to get to the same place in both Windows 7 and Windows 8. Microsoft have literally given no design thought for the Geeks and power users. They just thought, oh lets shove their stuff in the corner and haul all the consumer bullsh*t in.

Microsoft has really dropped the ball on Windows 8 so far. The Metro UI, simply doesn't work efficiently enough for me and others (reference the Front page poll 60|40). It feels like Microsoft is leaving the power users in the dirt trail behind them in the search for Dumb users. In fact now I think of it, they can't be searching designing it for dumb users either as there is no intuitiveness, how on earth are regular joes expected to shut down their PC's at night time? How are they supposed to know how to find out or know what the charm bar is? Who the f**k have Microsoft designed Windows 8 for?!

Callums reply saying I haven't used it long enough in 3...2...1...

I kid :p

Why would geeks and power users go to the control panels multiple times a day ? I don't think you know what a geek or power user is.

also, mouse lower left corner, right click. click control panel. voila. faster than win7 even, and as a bonus I have that same fast access direcly to the computer management tools and a whole lot of other neat power user tools as well. Seems like Win8 is for power users.

And sorry, but power users don't need to use the start menu, the start screen works great for power users to.

[winrez]

Have you watched the video's where you download the consumer.preview on mouse and keyboard its easier than your post suggests. ( I have a touchsmart but use the mouse and keyboard most the time) if you really have a problem add My Computer and all the old icons. And its not like Microsoft won't remove the old start button before RTM they removed it now so you can provide feedback on the Metro interface not complain about the start button. And as moving the lock screen up pressing the "up arrow" key or sliding your mouse up is easier for corporate users than ctrl+alt+delete and it gives extra protection against dictionary attacks.

[HawkMan]

Help me understand why users should be forced to "have an open mind" when evaluating a product that wants them to spend their money on it. I don't need to try Windows 8 with an open mind, though I feel I have, or anything else for that matter. Microsoft chose to make huge changes that I don't see as beneficial in the slightest. I have used them and I don't feel I want to learn a plathora of new stupid "gestures" and "hot spots" and whatever else they thought statistics told them I should want...

Luckily for me I have a wallet and I'll ignore the Windows 8 release on my desktop (though I am considering a tablet still) :).

I'm not going to force myself to like Windows 8. I don't force myself to like things I spend my money on. That's not how it works.

That's the most ignorant statement I've ever read. SERIOUSLY. You're not even willing to try a new product. You're not even willing to have an open mind because you're so set in your old fashioned ways you don't want to learn a new, better and more efficient way of doing something because you've decided in your close minded prejudiced fashion that "it is worse".

[remixedcat]

Which doesn't make any sense from the haters. since you can use the start screen EXACTLY like the start menu, except you have a massive list of your favorite apps instead of a tiny list of 7 or 8 favorite(pinned) apps. And a far better search for when you're openign any of the others, or alternatively a nice categorized all apps.

umm you can use small icons and make more programs available than that. I have 16 and in small icon mode. Works fine for me...

[HawkMan]

umm you can use small icons and make more programs available than that. I have 16 and in small icon mode. Works fine for me...

I have 36 available on the first page of my start screen, dividied in 3 categorized rows, and they're not even full and some of them use a wide tile. so I could have at least 46. And they actually show a lot of information there. without waiting for popups or jumplists, right there, on each tile at the same time.

[MtnDewCodeRedFreak]

The Start screen is IMO great, but ....

The right side of the Start screen where all the apps are at is a big disorganized mess. I see all the Office apps mixed in with say, Windows Live Messenger or Yahoo Messenger and its uninstaller or AIM and its uninstaller - all into individual tiles for each one.

Microsoft needs to make it more organized according to the folder-like view. If they can make folder-like tiles of all the Start-menu-era apps into the Start screen, then I'd be a happy camper. Click on a folder tile and it'd expand into more tiles like the Start menu folders.

[devHead]

QFT.

No functionality was removed with the removal of the start button and menu. It works exactly the same way just requires more screen real estate to do it. I also find the the All Apps screen to be 100x better than the puny cramped All programs menu of before and 1000x better than those annoying accordian menus from XP.

No functionality removed? How about cascading menus for Control Panel and Administration tools? How about Jumplists for programs on the Start menu in Windows 7, either pinned or in the recent programs list? Or how about a recent programs list? Or how about individual folders for program installations on the Start menu instead of just every shortcut created by a program installation just plastered on the Start screen? No functionality removed? All of the useful functionality was removed and for no other reason than they thought everyone would like a giant tablet screen instead of the efficient Start menu. Although you're right, the XP Start menu was a drag. But they just tossed out some of the best parts of the Windows 7 Start menu. So please do not say 'no functionality was removed'. It was!

[Doli]

The Start screen is IMO great, but ....

The right side of the Start screen where all the apps are at is a big disorganized mess. I see all the Office apps mixed in with say, Windows Live Messenger or Yahoo Messenger and its uninstaller or AIM and its uninstaller - all into individual tiles for each one.

Microsft needs to make it more organized according to the folder-like view. If they can make folder-like tiles of all the Start-menu-era apps into the Start screen, then I'd be a happy camper. Click on a folder tile and it'd expand into more tiles like the Start menu folders.

You see the titles for uninstallers just like you would see the entries in the Win7/Vista Start-> All programs menu. It will be up to the program developers to stop having the entries show up. Im sure the new Office will have the apps organized when it comes.

[MtnDewCodeRedFreak]

You see the titles for uninstallers just like you would see the entries in the Win7/Vista Start-> All programs menu. It will be up to the program developers to stop having the entries show up. Im sure the new Office will have the apps organized when it comes.

Yes, but they shouldn't just leave them like that. Right now as I see it, it's a big jumbled mess. No way to organize them into folders like in Win 7/Vista (XP Start Menu sucks b/c of no automatic alphabetical order of program folders like Vista/7 have). Regarding Office 15 (2013?), probably.

[remixedcat]

I have 36 available on the first page of my start screen, dividied in 3 categorized rows, and they're not even full and some of them use a wide tile. so I could have at least 46. And they actually show a lot of information there. without waiting for popups or jumplists, right there, on each tile at the same time.

I could make mine 36 freq. apps as well but I don't want it any bigger. I have 16 freq. used and then 18 pinned apps on the top.

[Doli]

Yes, but they shouldn't just leave them like that. Right now as I see it, it's a big jumbled mess. No way to organize them into folders like in Win 7/Vista (XP Start Menu sucks b/c of no automatic alphabetical order of program folders like Vista/7 have). Regarding Office 15 (2013?), probably.

Microsoft cant do anything is a developer wants multiple shortcuts that all point diffrent executable files or one executable file with multiple arguments like VLC player for me. You are installing software that is really for Win 7/Vista. You can organize the titles into new groups by dragging them and unpin titles with right click.

[HawkMan]

The Start screen is IMO great, but ....

The right side of the Start screen where all the apps are at is a big disorganized mess. I see all the Office apps mixed in with say, Windows Live Messenger or Yahoo Messenger and its uninstaller or AIM and its uninstaller - all into individual tiles for each one.

Microsoft needs to make it more organized according to the folder-like view. If they can make folder-like tiles of all the Start-menu-era apps into the Start screen, then I'd be a happy camper. Click on a folder tile and it'd expand into more tiles like the Start menu folders.

You can move tiles around and organize them into separate groups yourself to fit your personal organization you know.

No functionality removed? How about cascading menus for Control Panel and Administration tools? How about Jumplists for programs on the Start menu in Windows 7, either pinned or in the recent programs list? Or how about a recent programs list? Or how about individual folders for program installations on the Start menu instead of just every shortcut created by a program installation just plastered on the Start screen? No functionality removed? All of the useful functionality was removed and for no other reason than they thought everyone would like a giant tablet screen instead of the efficient Start menu. Although you're right, the XP Start menu was a drag. But they just tossed out some of the best parts of the Windows 7 Start menu. So please do not say 'no functionality was removed'. It was!

Sorry to break it to you, but you are the only person who used cascading control panel menus and start menu jump lists. People didn't use it, so they remove it. Personally the cascading control panel made no sense. It was slower than just opening the control panel, and far slower than just writing what you're looking for and getting right to it with search.

I could make mine 36 freq. apps as well but I don't want it any bigger. I have 16 freq. used and then 18 pinned apps on the top.

I'd like to see a start menu with 32 pinned apps in it. Please. Remember it also has to be eas to navigate and find each app, and sorted into groups depending on how I group them so I can easily sort them out.

[Mazhar]

So just imagine what Windows 8 would be without Metro: Just some under the hood changes, improved task manager, improved copy/pasting interface, refresh and reset features, fast boot times, etc. That would be it.

And that would not be enough to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8. So Microsoft had to take a big step, a big bet, a risk, that would really make people's decision easy to upgrade to Windows 8. Now the question is whether they got success in doing so? Overall, the answer is Yes! Metro works, at least, if not big time. It is at its initial stage at the moment, but In the future it will all be polished. Metro is here to stay.

As far as criticism of people regarding Metro interface, it s nothing but a fear of change. I respect their opinions but if we had to take a leap, we have to change the way we do things. It is 2012, new era, new ways to do things, hence new Windows.

[Ci7]

You can move tiles around and organize them into separate groups yourself to fit your personal organization you know.

Sorry to break it to you, but you are the only person who used cascading control panel menus and start menu jump lists. People didn't use it, so they remove it. Personally the cascading control panel made no sense. It was slower than just opening the control panel, and far slower than just writing what you're looking for and getting right to it with search.

I'd like to see a start menu with 32 pinned apps in it. Please. Remember it also has to be eas to navigate and find each app, and sorted into groups depending on how I group them so I can easily sort them out.

just googled 'cascading control panel' , totally forgot about it

it sure as hell :x sucks

would either use searchbox or switch control panel to icon view

[Vice]

I hate saying this but I think "power users" like you are...how to say this... plain stupid. :D If you are a power user as you claim, you should be able to figure out that traditionally Windows users can login by dismissing "lock screen" (surprise, Apple didn't invent lock screen as you claimed in this thread) with Ctrl + Alt + Del.

Any "power user" who can't figure out keyboard or simple mouse gestures is a freaking dumb user.

Don't want to be insulting, but if you are really power user - customize the power user menu in Windows 8 and make it look like Win7 start menu. Done.

/end rant :p

If you read the guy I was quoting he was the one that started calling me a power user. Which is why I replied the way I did. So I think it is you who is "plain stupid" for failing to understand the context of my message. But er "Don't want to be insulting"

And I never claimed Apple invented anything. I said that Apple provides the text "Slide to Unlock" to indicate to a user how they can unlock their device. Something Windows 8 does not do. Reading comprehension fail?

[Vice]

Which doesn't make any sense from the haters. since you can use the start screen EXACTLY like the start menu, except you have a massive list of your favorite apps instead of a tiny list of 7 or 8 favorite(pinned) apps. And a far better search for when you're openign any of the others, or alternatively a nice categorized all apps.

this is no different to the start menu, just quicker access to more of your most used/important programs. This is an evolution and joining of the start menu and the pinned taskbar. created form what they learned from how people use their computers with anonymous usage statistics, people never use the start menu, they use pinned apps, on the taskbar or the start menu.

You know what I'd rather have? A start menu that doesn't take up my entire 30" screen whenever I want to launch an app that I don't use often enough to pin to my task bar.

It is very annoying when 100% of the apps I'm going to be using are desktop apps and yet I am having to open this full screen kiddie interface that covers my entire display just to launch something new. If I am watching a video in my media player or reading an IRC chat, waiting for a reply on MSN or even playing a game I now can't see any of that while I search for the app in Metro.

This wasn't the case with the Start Menu. If I wanted to launch a rarely used app I could still see my video from the corner of my eye I could still see my IRC chats moving I could still see incoming MSN messages and with these things in my peripheral vision I could quickly look at them and see what happened while still having the start menu open and then I could continue my search for the app I wanted.

In Metro if the same thing happened like for example I'm watching a youtube video and I open Metro to look for something I want to launch then I hear something cool happening in that video through my speakers. I have to now completely exit Metro to view what just happened and then start my search all over again afterwards. This is annoying, having it full screen is annoying. It wastes so much space on my screen it is ridiculous.

I find the fact that Microsoft doesn't include an off switch for Metro incredibly arrogant. I have no problem with those of you who are sipping the Microsoft Koolaid using Metro just provide an off switch that brings back the Start Menu and I'd be happy. This is a hugely controversial feature and everyone I know that has seen it does not like it except you guys posting here. All my friends think it is a total failure and I did not convince them of that, they came to that conclusion on their own.

[TheLegendOfMart]

So, are you suggesting that you should be able to criticise Windows 8, but I shouldn't defend it when people criticise it? That's all I've been doing, and I haven't "talked down" others' opinions.

That's all you do. I've read through this thread and all I see from people like you and others is the same arrogant condescending prattle, because people don't like Metro they obviously don't "get it" like you do like you are some superior intellect on your high horse. All you are doing is riling people up and if you talk to people like you do on here in real life then, well.......

The problem is you think you are right and the people who don't like Metro are wrong. Maybe its you that should have an "open mind" as you like to tell people.

This product is going to fail hard against Apple and the tech community will move on to the next trending fad, from MIDs to UMPCs to Netbooks to Tablets to whatever comes next and those who use a desktop PC will be stuck with a less than experience all for the sake of trying to take on tablets.

[Vice]

That's all you do. I've read through this thread and all I see from people like you and others is the same arrogant condescending prattle, because people don't like Metro they obviously don't "get it" like you do like you are some superior intellect on your high horse. All you are doing is riling people up and if you talk to people like you do on here in real life then, well.......

The problem is you think you are right and the people who don't like Metro are wrong. Maybe its you that should have an "open mind" as you like to tell people.

I don't get why he even feels he needs to defend it. He didn't make it, he isn't working at Microsoft. His sense of protecting his baby is totally misguided and he should see it with objective eyes like the rest of us.

[jakem1]

Yeah you already said that to another poster. When I boot my computer I want to login and start using it. I don't need to see that information at a glance because if I'm turning my computer on the first thing I'm going to do is check my email and I'd rather do that than see a summary of how many I received. That kind of screen is only useful on a tablet where you would press the sleep/wake button to see at a glance if you had received any new messages. Pointless on a desktop/notebook.

In your opinion. I think it's perfect on a desktop/notebook and have wanted this functionality for years. I often have my PC locked (some places I work have a policy of locking the desktop automatically after 5 minutes of inactivity) and it will be great to be able to see how many emails I've received, what my next appointment is, etc. from the lock screen.

No where on the lock screen does it say you can press a keyboard button to get passed that screen. NO WHERE. I used the OS for a whole week. And this is just the problem with the OS. It is not intuitive - at all - just trying to find a shutdown switch in the OS is like going on a cross-country journey. It took me over 5 minutes to find something so simple in Metro.

Where does it say that you have to swipe up? Oh that's right, it doesn't but you still think that this is a tablet UI shoehorned onto a PC. The fact is that the UI works equally well as a tablet OR a PC UI. Use the keyboard on a PC and the touchscreen on a tablet. Perfect.

Personally, I can't think of anything more intuitive than hitting a random key on your keyboard to interact with a screen with no obvious controls.

[Calum Veteran]

That's all you do. I've read through this thread and all I see from people like you and others is the same arrogant condescending prattle, because people don't like Metro they obviously don't "get it" like you do like you are some superior intellect on your high horse. All you are doing is riling people up and if you talk to people like you do on here in real life then, well.......

The problem is you think you are right and the people who don't like Metro are wrong. Maybe its you that should have an "open mind" as you like to tell people.

This product is going to fail hard against Apple and the tech community will move on to the next trending fad, from MIDs to UMPCs to Netbooks to Tablets to whatever comes next and those who use a desktop PC will be stuck with a less than experience all for the sake of trying to take on tablets.

Your post is completely wrong. I haven't ever suggested that my opinion on the Metro experience is right and others' opinions on it are wrong. Clearly, the problem with you is that you don't understand my posts. I suggest you please ensure you understand them before you incorrectly judge and lie about me. Further, I haven't talked down anyone's opinion, which is what you erroneously suggest is "all I do."

Please ensure you understand my posts in future.

[Vice]

In your opinion. I think it's perfect on a desktop/notebook and have wanted this functionality for years. I often have my PC locked (some places I work have a policy of locking the desktop automatically after 5 minutes of inactivity) and it will be great to be able to see how many emails I've received, what my next appointment is, etc. from the lock screen.

Of course it is my opinion. And I totally see why you would find that feature useful.

Your post is completely wrong. I haven't ever suggested that my opinion on the Metro experience is right and others' opinions on it are wrong. Clearly, the problem with you is that you don't understand my posts. I suggest you please ensure you understand them before you incorrectly judge and lie about me. Further, I haven't talked down anyone's opinion, which is what you erroneously suggest is "all I do."

Please ensure you understand my posts in future.

When you constantly tell people they don't understand things? - That is belittling them. Try not to do that. Set a better example and stop telling people what they don't understand.