Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[winlonghorn]

A simple fix would be to... Make start orb reappear, click for start menu, long click for start screen.

And because it is the same OS that is going on tablets, you expect a tablet user to want to hold their finger down for several seconds just to access the start screen?

[abysal]

And because it is the same OS that is going on tablets, you expect a tablet user to want to hold their finger down for several seconds just to access the start screen?

I think the solution would be fi it to install as either Metro shell or standard Desktop Explorer shell, depending if touch interface in detected. Or allow to the user to switch to one or the other at some point. I think that would be a welcome and realistic compromise.

I think MS wants to shove Metro down on everyone one because of Apple's success with iTunes. With Metro, MS can start banking in the cash for all those neat little Metro apps that will start popping up. We'll see if that hold true.

[muratoner]

been using Windows 8 for about 3-4 days...my views are

windows 8 isn't that much different than 7 except that you have metro and metro apps that run fullscreen (not great for people who likes to multithread) and charm bar plus a few touches here and there

I've gotten used to working around things in less than an hour so i can say it's user friendly although i watched that old man suffer as he clearly try not hit around corners with the mouse. :wacko:

I usually (%90 percent of the time) go to desktop mode and do my business.And i don't have too much apps installed so my metro menu doesn't look like crap (yet)...I think we will see some changes on how programs icons look in metro when W8 hits RTM.

But the strange thing is that i honestly cannot find one big reason to switch to Windows8..It's like a lot of tiny things that makes the difference...It's fast and snappy and looks good,there's ribbon in explorer and MSE is built in....etc, but there is really no giant step in terms of computing from 7 to 8 for me..(unless you have a tablet offcourse).That said i will probably keep using Windows 8 and try to figure out things .And when the metro apps get better and more stuff gets released i will switch to windows 8..right now they aren't that good as i've checked the music app and it just can't read tags properly..and weather app just looks weird you have to slide through on a desktop pc.

All things said i think MS did a very smooth transition.I got used to it very quickly and i'm hardly an expert.I feel like it won't be a vista fail but still might need some convincing for the people who already have Windows 7 and don't own a tablet or a touch device.

[Dot Matrix]

I think the solution would be fi it to install as either Metro shell or standard Desktop Explorer shell, depending if touch interface in detected.

That would negate the purpose of Windows 8 then. Why buy it when all it would do is act and look like Windows 7?

[BajiRav]

If you read the guy I was quoting he was the one that started calling me a power user. Which is why I replied the way I did. So I think it is you who is "plain stupid" for failing to understand the context of my message. But er "Don't want to be insulting"

And I never claimed Apple invented anything. I said that Apple provides the text "Slide to Unlock" to indicate to a user how they can unlock their device. Something Windows 8 does not do. Reading comprehension fail?

Oh my bad then* (for both instances) but let me address the "slide to unlock" thing then. Do you know that the lock screen provides ample indication of similar slide up action (same as windows phone)?

For touch and mouse: the screen bounces (similar to WP) when you touch/click anywhere on the screen.

For keyboard: it slides up when you press any key.

This is simple discovery that will happen for any user within first minute of sitting in front of Win8 PC. They need to know it the only once and they are all set. I don't understand what's so difficult about it for any level of skill.

*Note to self: Never hastily post before going to bed with laptop running under 10% battery.

[encarta]

That would negate the purpose of Windows 8 then. Why buy it when all it would do is act and look like Windows 7?

Because of all other changes (new kernel, faster boot times, more secure, new copy dialog, new task manager, ribbon explorer, etc.)?

[BajiRav]

Because of all other changes (new kernel, faster boot times, more secure, new copy dialog, new task manager, ribbon explorer, etc.)?

To use the old and tired car analogy...I like the engine and transmission on this car can I have it with the shell of my 3 year old car? Because I don't like that the new car has simplified starter, I want to start with a crank!

[ichi]

That would negate the purpose of Windows 8 then. Why buy it when all it would do is act and look like Windows 7?

Well, the OS is far more than just the GUI, and then considering that the whole single point of an OS is running your apps on top, if you found yourself more productive with the classic desktop alone why shouldn't you be able to use just that?

The OS should do whatever the hell I want it to do, it's just a tool. Artificial limitations about what I can do and how are stupid.

[encarta]

To use the old and tired car analogy...I like the engine and transmission on this car can I have it with the shell of my 3 year old car? Because I don't like that the new car has simplified starter, I want to start with a crank!

Oh please. Ribbon, copy dialog and task manager are not metro. So your analogy fails in this case. And even if they were metro, you can hardly compare software with cars.

[ichi]

To use the old and tired car analogy...I like the engine and transmission on this car can I have it with the shell of my 3 year old car? Because I don't like that the new car has simplified starter, I want to start with a crank!

To use the old and tired car analogy... I might consider buying a new car if it didn't came with a squared steering wheel welded to the steering column. As trendy as squared steering wheels might be, since it's me who'll be driving the car I'd like to be able to just replace it with something I feel comfortable with.

[BajiRav]

Oh please. Ribbon, copy dialog and task manager are not metro. So your analogy fails in this case. And even if they were metro, you can hardly compare software with cars.

err...car analogy fails by definition everytime :p My point being, you can't pick & choose when you buy Windows. You either buy whatever Microsoft sells or don't buy it. You can't have Window 8 with Window 7's UI. That's the point I was getting at.

Just like you, I am sure there is somebody here who wants Windows 8 minus the ribbon because it is ugly and bloated. So what should Microsoft do?

Sell Windows 8 with metro to me

Sell Windows 8 minus only metro to you

Sell Window 8 minus metro and ribbon to XYZ?

[ichi]

Sell Windows 8 with metro to me

Sell Windows 8 minus only metro to you

Sell Window 8 minus metro and ribbon to XYZ?

Or sell Windows 8 with the ability to create new style profiles customizing the UI elements. There, everyone's happy.

[xWhiplash]

Are people really to the point of saying "The new UI is the only thing to upgrade to" or "Without the new UI, why upgrade?"

If that is the case, why have we been upgrading for 20 years? Why did we go from Windows 95 to Windows 7, because the UI is (in terms of basics) pretty much the same.

So since Microsoft finally decided to do something different with the Desktop UI, the argument now becomes "without it, why upgrade?"

[BajiRav]

Or sell Windows 8 with the ability to create new style profiles customizing the UI elements. There, everyone's happy.

Microsoft has never done that and I doubt they will ever. Windows is not Linux (thankfully), at least when it comes to UI.

[jakem1]

So you seriously don't think calling it "designed to be touch-first" tells you something about their priorities? If it works "equally well with a mouse and keyboard" why is it "touch-first"? Are you saying it is keyboard-and-mouse-first as well, since you seem to think it is a "first-class citizen in terms of" keyboard and mouse input too?

Of course it tells you something about their priorities. They're basically highlighting the fact that touch is not an afterthought in Windows 8. It's a message that they have to send out because of the failure of previous tablet-based versions of Windows. Does it mean that keyboard and mouse are an afterthought as you'd have us believe? Of course not. It's clear to anyone paying attention that MS are doing everything they can to ensure that Metro apps work equally well on tablets and PCs.

You carry on as if the desktop is gone and you can't continue to run all the apps you're familiar with. Nothing has changed in this respect. It's tiresome to read all you're posts constantly harping on about how much you hate Metro. Guess what, if you don't like it you don't have to use it. You've clearly got nothing constructive to add to any of the countless, boring threads about Windows 8 so why not give your keyboard a rest. We get it, you can't stand Metro.

[jakem1]

I think MS wants to shove Metro down on everyone one because of Apple's success with iTunes. With Metro, MS can start banking in the cash for all those neat little Metro apps that will start popping up. We'll see if that hold true.

I'm sure they are hoping that the Windows Store will be a success but I don't think that's the primary motivation behind the changes in Windows 8. It's been clear for years now that Microsoft intend to unify their product offering under their three screens and a cloud strategy. Windows 8 marks a big step in that direction with a unified code base for their PC, tablet and phone offerings and a common interface on all of the above plus the Xbox. If all goes to plan then this simplification should lead to less code to maintain making them more agile and able to roll out improvements faster.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

...snip...

For example - Try finding the classic control panel in the Metro UI, or even the Desktop environment without having to resort to searching in the Metro UI. That's something power users / geeks will be going to most days of their Windows 8 life....

Windows 7 -

1. Start menu

2. Control Panel

Windows 8 -

1. Win+X

2. Control Panel

...snip...

Since you profess to be a Power User, you clearly won't mind a keyboard short-cut. As such I corrected the above for you.

That would negate the purpose of Windows 8 then. Why buy it when all it would do is act and look like Windows 7?

QFT.

Windows 8 is Metro. There is no distinction. If all you want is a minor evolution of Windows 7, then why buy Windows 8 at all? Just stick with Windows 7 and use some third party apps to replicate some of the small Desktop changes that are coming with 8 such as the task manager. No amount of whining by a relatively small number of PC enthusiasts on a tech forum (average users outnumber those enthusiasts several times over) is going to prevent Windows 7 being the last OS based on the 17 year old desktop/taskbar/startmenu paradigm.

[ichi]

Microsoft has never done that and I doubt they will ever.

There's always hope... you are never to old to finally do things right ;)

[benthebear]

that, in Microsoft's own words, is "designed to be touch-first". But if you're right, and they just forgot to mention that it is also "first" for keyboard and mouse and everything else, Microsoft seems to have the only UI designers in the world able to create a UI that is optimized for any and all input methods you can think of all at the same time without compromises.

Correct!

Like, I've seen a lot of comments from people insisting that the new UI is not a tablet UI and that Metro is this, Metro is that, and Metro has been around since the dinosaurs. I mean, have we not seen Microsoft's official documentation that back your statements up?

per le Microsoft (M$ lol?)

Metro is the name of the new design language created for the Windows Phone 7 interface.

http://www.microsoft...-phone-7/metro/

and in reference to Windows 8 CP

Designed for touch

Metro style apps are designed to be touch first. They leverage the hands and fingers for what they are great at, with comfort and ergonomics in mind.

http://msdn.microsof...s/hh464920.aspx

Dang, I can't put my finger on why people are calling it a tablet UI, or a UI optimized for touch. I just don't understand it!

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

You've clearly got nothing constructive to add to any of the countless, boring threads about Windows 8 so why not give your keyboard a rest.

Will do!

fwiw, this about sums up MS's approach to the whole Metro thing for me:

Microsoft sources tell me [...] The strategic thinking goes like this: Microsoft needs brute force to coerce a touch-based "ecosystem" into existence, and it's using Windows as the battering ram. Microsoft fears that if it loses "touch" to the iPad and iPhone and Android, then it loses its place in the consumer space altogether. [...] And because of this, Microsoft is going to force-feed Windows 8 to millions of PC users on non-touch devices, for whom Metro is nothing but a hindrance, in the hope that the market provides content and applications "designed for Metro".

[@Leo]

Having said that, I am thinking of no longer posting here because I am sick of you and some other members not correctly reading my posts. I am sick of people erroneously suggesting that I have a "holier than thou" attitude just because I disagree with them and they spy the Global Moderator badge. Even when people read my posts incorrectly, I politely suggest they read them properly, yet people erroneously believe that is being condescending :s I may remain as a moderator, but posts like the one above (full of misunderstanding) have polluted this community. I will leave you to carry on. . . .

:rolleyes:

When so many people have that opinion of your posts, guess where the problem lies. Either it's a language barrier (unlikely), or?

[fenderMarky]

The result? We get a crappy OS

Crappy OS only for a new start screen? Please... go with apple. They need people like you.

[XX55XX]

Crappy OS only for a new start screen? Please... go with apple. They need people like you.

Oh, and now we go down to petty insults and gross overgeneralizations now. I don't like Windows 8, so I must be an Apple fanboy! It makes so much sense now!

The interface is bad. It gets in the way. It took me forever to figure out how to close a Metro app or shut down the computer. When an OS gets in the way like that, it's bad.

Not too say that Metro is bad per se - just needs a lot of refinement. And with the Consumer Preview, Microsoft is still far away from making Metro usable on the desktop.

[Orange Battery]

MS seem to hold back for so long on so many things but jump right in on other areas for no reason. If they could get it round the other way then I would be a very happy customer. Instead Im one that has to wonder if i can avoid another pitfall, stick with what Ive got or possibly consider looking elsewhere.

I am way to lazy to move away from Windows - that or i just don't have the time.. I just wish we didn't find ourselves in the situation so often. MS seriously need more competition in the OS market - competitors would be so happy right now if they were launching a new PC OS at the same time as Win 8 and it might make MS appreciate the desktop market.

[XX55XX]

MS seem to hold back for so long on so many things but jump right in on other areas for no reason. If they could get it round the other way then I would be a very happy customer. Instead Im one that has to wonder if i can avoid another pitfall, stick with what Ive got or possibly consider looking elsewhere.

I am way to lazy to move away from Windows - that or i just don't have the time.. I just wish we didn't find ourselves in the situation so often. MS seriously need more competition in the OS market - competitors would be so happy right now if they were launching a new PC OS at the same time as Win 8 and it might make MS appreciate the desktop market.

Well, as a gamer, I'm stuck on Windows. If I didn't game, I probably would have moved to a Mac a while ago. Heck, my "desktop" PC might simply be a MacBook Air chained to a keyboard, monitor, mouse, and speakers.