Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Because they're trying to push their phones and tablets. I hope, and do think, the whole thing will be a huge mistake. Metro on a desktop PC is absolutely terrible. What to expect though... besides Windows Classic every Windows theme since has looked like it's designed by children.

[Vice]

No, no, no, and no. Metro is not a tablet UI. It was on the desktop before it was ever on a mobile device, dude. It's been in Media Center since 2004.

You really need to stop saying that. Windows Media Centre was designed for displays 10 feet away from you and remote controls. It was not the precursor to Metro. Either pull some facts where Microsoft say clearly that Metro was devised from the Media Centre UI or stop spouting this tired response.

[swanlee]

Metro has been around and been used on traditional software way way way before it was used on a single touch device. That is why you can't pigeon hole it and claim it was made just for touch ui. It is also still being pushed on non touch devices like the Xbox 360.

Metro is just MS's centralized UI design and it just happens to work well ont ouch devices.

[XX55XX]

Well, Metro is usable, but it's lacking many things:

1. All parts of Windows previously accessible through the Explorer must be brought over to Metro.

2. There needs to be an easier way to close applications. Corners could use that big X.

3. There needs to be an easier way to bring up the address bar in IE10.

4. Metro should scroll up and down, not right and left.

I'm not against Metro as a UI paradigm - it could work, but it needs a lot of work for it to work on a desktop.

[Vice]

That isn't the same as running iOS natively on your Mac, and you know that. You're running it in a simulator. The Metro experience is not being run in any kind of simulator; it is being natively run on desktop and notebook PCs.

I run Windows 8 in a simulator also. No difference. iOS works with a Keyboard and Mouse. By your logic it is also a desktop class operating system, don't backtrack now you have committed to your line of reasoning.

Also the Playbook simulator is x86 and runs on PC's and inside vmware on a PC. This is a touch screen OS that can be used with a mouse and keyboard also. By your definition it too is a desktop class UI.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

Because you are mistaken about Windows 8 and you don't understand it. It isn't a "tablet UI," and you referring to it as one shows that you do not understand it. They didn't separate the Metro experience from the Desktop experience because the Metro experience works very well on desktop and notebook PCs. Both are there, rather than just the Metro experience, because the Desktop is needed for some programs and features. Many of us would miss out tremendously if Microsoft didn't include the Metro experience on desktop and notebook PCs. I'd for sure switch to Mac OS X, if Windows 8 on desktops and notebooks consisted of just the Desktop experience, and that is because I quite dislike the Windows 7 and Windows 8 Desktop experiences (especially compared to the Windows 8 Metro experience).

but that's simply not true. it IS a tablet UI. full-screen start menu w/ giant icons? it's clearly a tablet UI. you have to scroll to find anything and you have to use the scroll bar at the bottom to do so. it simply does not work well w/ a mouse and keyboard. that is the main complaint of everyone using it on a Desktop. and the fact that it takes up the whole screen means i cant multitask at all. suddenly, i cant have 2-3 Metro apps open at once. why cant i have Task Manger, Weather and IE10 running at the same time? you cannot do that in Metro. simple as that. it's not functional outside a phone or tablet.

[Dot Matrix]

What for you is "nothing more that a distraction" for me could be a tail -f of some log or a running watch command where a single output change is relevant.

From the sound of this, then your attention is on the tail -f command, not what's around you. If a single change is relevant, then everything else around you is a distraction until you get the information you need.

[stevember]

I have taken the pants off now.

My family said they didn't like the direction I was going...

[RommelS]

I think with all of these bickering, we all are forgetting a few things.

This is not just based on how we like Windows to look and feel, we must also think about the Microsoft OEM partners, as they are looking for Microsoft to deliver a solution to combat the popularity of of the tablet, especially the iPad. Android is not cutting it.

Microsoft must leverage what they have and fast, and what they have is Windows.

As for us, the geeks, the power users, IT implimenters and specialist, and including the pretenders, we are not really part of the broader target of Windows 8. Windows is targeted to the mass (consumers and businesses). Some of us might not like it, but let's remember what we have to do, and that is to learn what Windows 8 is all about, and spread the knowledge to whom it is intended to.

So that video that we saw about a tech writer putting his father to the test, that is absolutely true and will happen , however, are you going to put someone that you care or love in that situation, and let alone to a user that you support? Maybe as a joke - perhaps.

Another question. When will be the write time to introduce this new UI? Some of you will say never, but the industry is fast changing , new technologies coming, and Windows must adapt to survive. Windows 8 UI might not be ultimate solution for everyone at the moment, but it must start somewhere.

[Dot Matrix]

you have to scroll to find anything and you have to use the scroll bar at the bottom to do so.

What are you talking about? If you have used Windows 8, you would simply that this ISN'T the case! Scrolling works with the mouse wheel, it works with the keyboard's directional arrows, and it works by simply moving your mouse to the edge of the screen to "push" it's away to a desired tile.

Saying that is telling us you haven't used the beta.

[ichi]

It is also wrong because Metro has been used since the mid 2000's in the zune software interface and media center both of which are not touch interfaces. The first time metro was used with touch was in the last year ro so, before that it was used on standard programs.

A flashy app UI and window management in a desktop environment are two whole different things.

[Calum Veteran]

I run Windows 8 in a simulator also. No difference. iOS works with a Keyboard and Mouse. By your logic it is also a desktop class operating system, don't backtrack now you have committed to your line of reasoning.

Also the Playbook simulator is x86 and runs on PC's and inside vmware on a PC. This is a touch screen OS that can be used with a mouse and keyboard also. By your definition it too is a desktop class UI.

I'm not backtracking, and I haven't even implied I am, so what was that comment in reference to? You run Windows 8 in a simulator, but the Metro experience is a native part of Windows itself, so that is completely different to running iOS in a simulator on a Mac. I'm not suggesting that the Metro experience is "a desktop class UI," so where did you get that idea from? I've stated that even if it works terribly on a desktop, it should still not be referred to as "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on a desktop.

[jakem1]

Same, I use a remote on my Media Center a mouse/keyboard would be so unintuitive.

I actually find it easier/faster to navigate WMC with my keyboard than with my remote control. It works perfectly and is completely intuitive.

[Calum Veteran]

but that's simply not true. it IS a tablet UI. full-screen start menu w/ giant icons? it's clearly a tablet UI. you have to scroll to find anything and you have to use the scroll bar at the bottom to do so. it simply does not work well w/ a mouse and keyboard. that is the main complaint of everyone using it on a Desktop. and the fact that it takes up the whole screen means i cant multitask at all. suddenly, i cant have 2-3 Metro apps open at once. why cant i have Task Manger, Weather and IE10 running at the same time? you cannot do that in Metro. simple as that. it's not functional outside a phone or tablet.

It may be a UI that works best on tablets (although I disagree with that, at present), but it is not "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on desktop PCs. Can you honestly not see what I'm saying?

[XX55XX]

It may be a UI that works best on tablets (although I disagree with that, at present), but it is not "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on desktop PCs. Can you honestly not see what I'm saying?

It's best on touch, though. It's far more efficient with a finger than a mouse and keyboard. At least you can admit that.

[Vice]

I'm not backtracking, and I haven't even implied I am, so what was that comment in reference to? You run Windows 8 in a simulator, but the Metro experience is a native part of Windows itself, so that is completely different to running iOS in a simulator on a Mac. I'm not suggesting that the Metro experience is "a desktop class UI," so where did you get that idea from? I've stated that even if it works terribly on a desktop, it should still not be referred to as "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on a desktop.

To you something isn't a Tablet UI if it can be used with a keyboard and mouse. I can use iOS and the Playbook OS with a keyboard and mouse. It doesn't matter in what circumstances it can be done. That doesn't mean those operating systems are not made for Touch UI's - Metro is designed from the start to work on Touch Screens. That is the whole point of Metro. The mere fact it can be used with a mouse and keyboard doesn't change that. It just means it is a Touch UI that can be used by a mouse and keyboard.

No one here is disputing the fact that Metro can be used by a mouse and keyboard. But that wasn't what it was created for. That isn't the reason they came up with that design language. It is obvious to even a layman that the whole inception of Metro was to answer the touch screen conundrum. UI controls on a desktop OS are too small for fingers they needed something bigger and that is what brought Metro in to existence the necessity for a better touch interface to windows. The mere fact it works with Mouse/Keyboards is Microsoft's attempt to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to go Apples way of creating two operating systems.

[ichi]

From the sound of this, then your attention is on the tail -f command, not what's around you. If a single change is relevant, then everything else around you is a distraction until you get the information you need.

Maybe you don't do IT work or at least not the same kind of work I do, but when I tail a log or throw a watch to a command it's to monitor the results of what I'm doing somewhere else. My focus in on my work, and my work involves keeping track of plenty of things at the same time.

You are pushing the You don't need that? again. I think it should be obvious that I know what I need better than you.

[swanlee]

To you something isn't a Tablet UI if it can be used with a keyboard and mouse. I can use iOS and the Playbook OS with a keyboard and mouse. It doesn't matter in what circumstances it can be done. That doesn't mean those operating systems are not made for Touch UI's - Metro is designed from the start to work on Touch Screens. That is the whole point of Metro. The mere fact it can be used with a mouse and keyboard doesn't change that. It just means it is a Touch UI that can be used by a mouse and keyboard.

No one here is disputing the fact that Metro can be used by a mouse and keyboard. But that wasn't what it was created for. That isn't the reason they came up with that design language. It is obvious to even a layman that the whole inception of Metro was to answer the touch screen conundrum. UI controls on a desktop OS are too small for fingers they needed something bigger and that is what brought Metro in to existence the necessity for a better touch interface to windows. The mere fact it works with Mouse/Keyboards is Microsoft's attempt to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to go Apples way of creating two operating systems.

It is not a Tablet UI because it has been around ALOT longer than it's use on tablet or touch devices. It is a UI that just happens to work well on touch devices but that was never the original use of the UI. It has been used on actual dekstop software alot longer than it's use as a touch UI.

[Calum Veteran]

It's best on touch, though. It's far more efficient with a finger than a mouse and keyboard. At least you can admit that.

I can't say that for sure until I've used it for a few months and until I've tried all of the tasks I usually do (including software developing) using it. So far, I've found it great and I haven't had any problems using it with a mouse and keyboard.

I wouldn't say you're wrong for saying that, though, as I am just mentioning my own experience :)

[Vice]

It is not a Tablet UI because it has been around ALOT longer than it's use on tablet or touch devices. It is a UI that just happens to work well on touch devices but that was never the original use of the UI. It has been used on actual dekstop software alot longer than it's use as a touch UI.

Prove it. Show me where Metro as we know it today was used on desktop computers before Windows Phone showed up.

And actually use facts please.

[Calum Veteran]

To you something isn't a Tablet UI if it can be used with a keyboard and mouse. I can use iOS and the Playbook OS with a keyboard and mouse. It doesn't matter in what circumstances it can be done. That doesn't mean those operating systems are not made for Touch UI's - Metro is designed from the start to work on Touch Screens. That is the whole point of Metro. The mere fact it can be used with a mouse and keyboard doesn't change that. It just means it is a Touch UI that can be used by a mouse and keyboard.

No one here is disputing the fact that Metro can be used by a mouse and keyboard. But that wasn't what it was created for. That isn't the reason they came up with that design language. It is obvious to even a layman that the whole inception of Metro was to answer the touch screen conundrum. UI controls on a desktop OS are too small for fingers they needed something bigger and that is what brought Metro in to existence the necessity for a better touch interface to windows. The mere fact it works with Mouse/Keyboards is Microsoft's attempt to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to go Apples way of creating two operating systems.

No, that is completely incorrect. I haven't suggested that in any of my posts. I have always meant that the Metro experience cannot reasonably be referred to as "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on desktop PCs, not just because it can be used with a keyboard and mouse.

[Dot Matrix]

Maybe you don't do IT work or at least not the same kind of work I do, but when I tail a log or throw a watch to a command it's to monitor the results of what I'm doing somewhere else. My focus in on my work, and my work involves keeping track of plenty of things at the same time.

You are pushing the You don't need that? again. I think it should be obvious that I know what I need better than you.

It seems you an I have two different definitions of multitasking. Which is fine, but even as an IT student, I have yet to have a need to focus on a multiple windows at once.

[Vice]

No, that is completely incorrect. I haven't suggested that in any of my posts. I have always meant that the Metro experience cannot reasonably be referred to as "a tablet UI" because it is a native part of Windows 8 on desktop PCs, not just because it can be used with a keyboard and mouse.

It is like talking to a brick wall. I'm done.

[swanlee]

Prove it. Show me where Metro as we know it today were used on desktop computers before Windows Phone showed up.

And actually use facts please.

Metro was used in the Zune desktop software and Media Center way before touch devices. You threw in that comment "as we know today" to try and diffuse my statement which you knew was correct.

"As we know today" has nothing to do with it. Metro UI has evolved and been used under many different scenarios for years thus another reason it cannot be pigeon holed into strickly a touch interface.

Heck and even the Current Metro UI "as we know today" is being used on the Xbox 360 is not a touch device.

[Vice]

Metro was used in the Zune desktop software and Media Center way before touch devices. You threw in that comment "as we know today" to try and diffuse my statement which you knew was correct.

"As we know today" has nothing to do with it. Metro UI has evolved and been used under many different scenarios for years thus another reason it cannot be pigeon holed into strickly a touch interface.

It is nice for you to admit you were wrong. Thank you.