video Videos of Average people using Windows 8 for the first time.

[xWhiplash]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that that is a goal of Apple, especially after Metro matures a bit in Windows 9. After LOLkitteh is released next year, I expect to see a huge change is Mac OS XI.

Why switch between two devices, when I can use just one?

And you know this for a fact how? Did Apple release their plans for OS XI? We know Windows 8 is doing this horribly, we do not know if Apple will either. What if Windows 8 flops hard like Vista and ME? History tells us that Apple will keep the Dock and the same UI design in their operating system, while bringing in iOS like features. Could OS XI remove that? It is possible, but stop saying it as it is a fact. I seriously doubt Apple would make one Operating System for everything. OS XI could have something completely different. WE DO NOT KNOW. So, just stop saying it as a fact. Windows 8 IS doing this, Apple IS NOT. Those are the facts right there.

Besides, what the heck happened to Microsoft? They used to be very slow in terms of transitions. It has usually been Apple that "forces" stuff on the consumers like getting rid of some features before any other computer. It seems like we did a complete shift in the companies.

Maybe because I do not do the same thing on a tablet that I do on my desktop?! I do not program, use Adobe After Effects/Photoshop, and Logic Pro on my tablets all day every day. I need a keyboard to program, I NEED the hexa-core processors in order to encode 1080p video much faster than a tablet would.

People use desktops for other reasons other than going online. I cannot stand Metro while working on Photoshop/After Effects and Visual Studio at the same time. This is why we say we want a CHOICE!

[Dot Matrix]

And you know this for a fact how? Did Apple release their plans for OS XI? We know Windows 8 is doing this horribly, we do not know if Apple will either. What if Windows 8 flops hard like Vista and ME? History tells us that Apple will keep the Dock and the same UI design in their operating system, while bringing in iOS like features. Could OS XI remove that? It is possible, but stop saying it as it is a fact. I seriously doubt Apple would make one Operating System for everything. OS XI could have something completely different. WE DO NOT KNOW. So, just stop saying it as a fact. Windows 8 IS doing this, Apple IS NOT. Those are the facts right there.

I don't know that as a fact, but if I were a betting man.... Look how much desktops have evolved the past two years. Look at the many different ways people interact with them.... Touchpads, Wacom tablets, touch, keyboard, mouse, remote, and now we even have Kinect. If Apple doesn't change to meet these new technologies, Apple is quickly going to loose out on the desktop market, not that they already have. But there is a reason Windows is changing, and not just to "force you", blah, blah... The longer Apple waits to change, the harder it will be on everyone who uses a Mac.

Maybe because I do not do the same thing on a tablet that I do on my desktop?! I do not program, use Adobe After Effects/Photoshop, and Logic Pro on my tablets all day every day. I need a keyboard to program, I NEED the hexa-core processors in order to encode 1080p video much faster than a tablet would.

People use desktops for other reasons other than going online. I cannot stand Metro while working on Photoshop/After Effects and Visual Studio at the same time. This is why we say we want a CHOICE!

What the heck are you talking about? I still have a keyboard on my Win8 test laptop that works wonders, I still have a mouse and trackpad that work wonders, and I can STILL multi-task between open windows on the desktop as I could on Windows 7. This quote makes no sense.

[Night Prowler]

It's like taking a 70 year old person that has been driving a 2000 Honda Accord with an Automatic transmission and shoving the that person into the exact same car, but now it's a 5 speed manual transmission. They will last about 10 minutes and they will give up. However, if this is the only transportation and the 70 year has a Bingo game to get to, it will happen.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

If Apple doesn't change to meet these new technologies, Apple is quickly going to loose out on the desktop market, not that they already have. But there is a reason Windows is changing, and not just to "force you", blah, blah... The longer Apple waits to change, the harder it will be on everyone who uses a Mac.

It's painfully obvious that Windows 8 is Microsoft playing catch-up with the iPad. And they have a long way to go. If anything, Apple, with the Mac, is "losing out" to one of their own products. The traditional desktop user base has no need for forced tablet-type full-screen only, single-tasking computing on the Desktop. The ones that do, will be switching to a tablet sooner or later anyways...

[Kirkburn]

Except most people don't hold their mouse that study. half the time they would be opening up IE

Assuming you meant 'steady' ... what does steadiness have to do with telling people to push their mouse to the top right corner? And what does it have to do with opening IE?

[+Warwagon MVC]

Assuming you meant 'steady' ... what does steadiness have to do with telling people to push their mouse to the top right corner? And what does it have to do with opening IE?

I'm talking about the bottom left. If you move the mouse as you click the mouse pointer (at least for me a few times) ended up on IE. Most old people jerk as they click. They never hold the mouse steady.

[PyX]

"this book, with all that's in it, is still just an overview of all the capabilities"

Haha, awesome quote :D

So did Microsoft put that short tutorial when Lion boots for the first time? ;)

I?m not sure that I get your question. But if you?re speaking about the window that pops up telling scrolling was reversed, they have reversed one of the most fundamental mechanics that has been implanted in our heads since the early 90s. You can?t really blame them on telling us to try it. The ridiculous decision here was that it was enabled by default with regular mice.

For those mentioning Apple, it's funny you should cower to them, because they're doing the same thing, albeit on a geological timescale. So, sometime during the next epoch they'll have finally converged iOS and OS X as well, while Microsoft will have combined the two over the next three Windows' releases.

Maybe, only time will tell us. But so far, Apple has understood how touch interfaces work. They haven?t invented a vertical touch-screen because it?s not ergonomic, and they have adapted iOS features for Mac OS X instead of embedding them blindly without changing anything.

[KevinN206]

I'm talking about the bottom left. If you move the mouse as you click the mouse pointer (at least for me a few times) ended up on IE. Most old people jerk as they click. They never hold the mouse steady.

You just aim for the hard corner and click. Don't try to click the "Start" thumbnail, because it'll disappear. I think MS will fix this in the RC. The first time I use, I try to move the mouse cursor back to the Start, but then it occured to me that it's much much easier to just aim for the corner and click.

[foodan]

I'm talking about the bottom left. If you move the mouse as you click the mouse pointer (at least for me a few times) ended up on IE. Most old people jerk as they click. They never hold the mouse steady.

Eh? There is no precision required. You just throw the mouse cursor into the corner and the start button will just pop up unlike on any version of Windows prior to Windows 8, you had to point the mouse cursor over the start button....

[HawkMan]

I'm talking about the bottom left. If you move the mouse as you click the mouse pointer (at least for me a few times) ended up on IE. Most old people jerk as they click. They never hold the mouse steady.

As other have said just put it in the corner, but eve so. The left and right menu bands are rather wide, eve with Parkinson's you're not going to miss.

[George P Global Moderator]

Honestly why don't people expect at least a small user tutorial or book that can come with a new PC/laptop/tablet? Hell, MS did hand out books to people at MWC at the event when they released the CP iirc. I don't really get the issue, or problem or w/e. How is it that people are able to use all the other devices out there that don't have the same UI in the end? Some of you seem to underestimate the ability of humans to adapt and pickup new things. MS has been through this ride once already when they moved from Windows 3.11 to the all new Windows 95 UI. A quick getting started guide when you first boot into the device/install it is enough.

And KB shortcuts are mostly for the power users, lots of average people who know how to use Windows probably don't even know half of all the KB shortcuts out there so that's really not an issue either. Those people will learn them and life will go on, the other people, the people in the video will use the mouse like always or get new touch devices as time goes on.

[Omen1393]

But the people in these videos are existing users of Windows 7 and XP - now they are completely lost merely after upgrading their systems...Like I said, judging by the difficulties they're having, they might as well have switched to a Mac, an iPad or some other completely different system - in fact they'd almost certainly be less confused in that case, because they'd be provided with some visible clues as to what can be done in the interface. Shouldn't this give Microsoft pause...?!

See this video (the guy from the 3rd video in the OP):

-> J

.

Chris Pirillo's dad had been using Windows for years, and has learned the Windows desktop UI paradigm that is similar to OS X. I said I would like to see someone who has never touched a computer try to use Windows 7, not someone who has used a computer before.

[trek]

... unlike on any version of Windows prior to Windows 8, you had to point the mouse cursor over the start button....

Nope, not new.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I said I would like to see someone who has never touched a computer try to use Windows 7, not someone who has used a computer before.

Yes, I know. And you said you "would imagine they would be just as confused as these people using Windows 8". So, unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, you basically expect someone with prior experience using Windows XP and 7 to be set back so far after upgrading to Windows 8 that that person would be similarly confused as a first-time computer user trying out Windows 7 - and I think it's fair to expect a lot of confusion there. The question is, what justifies Windows 8's learning curve that exists even for users upgrading from 7? And that's not even a rhetorical question.

These videos prove absolutely nothing.?

I agree, they don't. We can't know whether the people in these videos are representative of a larger percentage of users at all. We also don't know what the learning curve looks like, simply after having been told what the corners do.

[BajiRav]

I?m not sure that I get your question. But if you?re speaking about the window that pops up telling scrolling was reversed, they have reversed one of the most fundamental mechanics that has been implanted in our heads since the early 90s. You can?t really blame them on telling us to try it. The ridiculous decision here was that it was enabled by default with regular mice.

Do you really want me to spell it out for you? You mentioned Apple designs in such a way that they don't need to put tutorials. The thing they show when Lion boots? is a form of tutorial. Every iPhone/iPad/iCloud commercial they show? is a tutorial. (Not to mention the countless getting-started videos they have/had on apple.com)

[Eric Veteran]

Honestly why don't people expect at least a small user tutorial or book that can come with a new PC/laptop/tablet? Hell, MS did hand out books to people at MWC at the event when they released the CP iirc. I don't really get the issue, or problem or w/e. How is it that people are able to use all the other devices out there that don't have the same UI in the end? Some of you seem to underestimate the ability of humans to adapt and pickup new things. MS has been through this ride once already when they moved from Windows 3.11 to the all new Windows 95 UI. A quick getting started guide when you first boot into the device/install it is enough.

And KB shortcuts are mostly for the power users, lots of average people who know how to use Windows probably don't even know half of all the KB shortcuts out there so that's really not an issue either. Those people will learn them and life will go on, the other people, the people in the video will use the mouse like always or get new touch devices as time goes on.

They've already got a booklet for it here on the Consumer Preview site. Everyone just slammed "download" and ignored the rest of the information.

[jesseinsf]

You guys don't realize that this is the first beta for consumers to give feedback. Leave the old people alone. Though It is quite hideous that everyone chooses old people to try and make their points here. Anyway, if you are going to give feedback then do it right and make sense in an adult manner.

[Kirkburn]

I don't think it's particularly silly to look at older people's reactions to Win8. The OS is aimed at everyone, not just the younger generations. Their feedback is still valid, though I may not agree with the methods or presentation displayed in this thread.

[MDboyz]

No worry. They will come out with Windows 8 for dummies ..

[Omen1393]

Yes, I know. And you said you "would imagine they would be just as confused as these people using Windows 8". So, unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, you basically expect someone with prior experience using Windows XP and 7 to be set back so far after upgrading to Windows 8 that that person would be similarly confused as a first-time computer user trying out Windows 7 - and I think it's fair to expect a lot of confusion there. The question is, what justifies Windows 8's learning curve that exists even for users upgrading from 7? And that's not even a rhetorical question.

I agree, they don't. We can't know whether the people in these videos are representative of a larger percentage of users at all. We also don't know what the learning curve looks like, simply after having been told what the corners do.

My point is that this entire video is supposed to prove that Windows 8 is entirely unintuitive and way too difficult for anyone to use right? What I'm saying is that Windows 8 is just as easy/hard to use as Windows 7, it's just a different UI paradigm that takes some time to learn. No one is denying that Windows 8 takes some getting used to, what baffles me is that people think that people think that the Metro UI is so confusing, when it is 10 times more consistent than Windows has ever been. If you can learn how to use one app, you can use them all. You can't say the same for Windows 7.

It is a fair question to ask what warrants relearning an entire UI, and the answer is there isn't anything that warrants it yet. But once the apps make their way to the app store and the tablets to the retail store, I think it would be hard to wonder of why we were so resistant to the Metro UI. I think we really underestimate people's ability to learn a new UI. Plenty of people are getting smartphones and tablets that don't work anything like Windows, but they pick it up pretty easily. Why do people freak out when Windows starts to work more similarly to the tablets and smartphones we all love?

What warrants the metro UI on the PC is that you don't have to learn anything new if/when you get a tablet. You really have to take into account that by the time Windows 9 comes around, tablets will be as ubiquitous as smartphones are today.

[Ently]

Other than the harder but simultaneously easier to use UI what is different in Windows 8? I mean on Windows 7 I can do everything I want to (and I assume what most people do) such as check emails, browse the net, listen to music, play some games.

I don't really see much of a point in Windows 8 to be honest unless you are using a tablet.

[JustGeorge]

I'm not against change but I don't understand the big push toward keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures. What is so wrong with pointing and clicking that it had to go? What about these changes advance the future of the desktop PC other than being a new way (arguably more difficult way) to accomplish the same task? I bought a cheap Logitech Google TV to throw on the living room TV and having to memorize all of the shortcuts is such a pain. God forbid Chrome have an actual frame around the browser window with tabs, close buttons, etc. That would make things too complicated for average Joe. I despise Google for starting this extreme minimalism craze that seems to permiate the software industry nowadays. Hiding functionality from users to save a few pixels of screen real estate is utter nonsense.

Since 8 will be MS's first go with Metro on the desktop, I'm probably going to skip 8 and get Windows 9 when it's more refined.

[PyX]

Do you really want me to spell it out for you? You mentioned Apple designs in such a way that they don't need to put tutorials. The thing they show when Lion boots? is a form of tutorial. Every iPhone/iPad/iCloud commercial they show? is a tutorial. (Not to mention the countless getting-started videos they have/had on apple.com)

Sure, a spelling lesson could be helpful, because I thought Apple was written "Apple", not "Microsoft". My bad.

Of course, if they?re a serious company and they want to gain business market share, they WILL include some kind of tutorials and help files. They would be crazy not to do so. But it has nothing to do with Microsoft?s. I?ve played a lot with Microsoft?s documentation last summer at my job and I wanted to shoot myself. Every time I want to learn something about an Apple product, even the most advanced features, it?s always a breeze. Out of the box, you CAN take any Apple product, turn it on, and mess around with it. Not so true with a Microsoft product.

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

You guys don't realize that this is the first beta for consumers to give feedback. Leave the old people alone. Though It is quite hideous that everyone chooses old people to try and make their points here. Anyway, if you are going to give feedback then do it right and make sense in an adult manner.

This is not a "beta", it's apparently equivalent to an "RC" which means it's a build which Microsoft considers to be equal to a final release (apart from the apps), I think they're equivalent to mad if they think this is releasable.

[jesseinsf]

This is not a "beta", it's apparently equivalent to an "RC" which means it's a build which Microsoft considers to be equal to a final release (apart from the apps), I think they're equivalent to mad if they think this is releasable.

Where is your head..... This is what the Wikipedia site says:

On 29 February 2012, Microsoft released Windows 8 Consumer Preview, the beta version of Windows 8, build 8250. For the first time since pre Windows 95, the Start button is no longer available on the taskbar, though the Start screen is still triggered by clicking the bottom-left corner of the screen and by clicking Start in the Charm.^[29] Windows president Steven Sinofsky said more than 100,000 changes had been made since the developer version went public.^[29] In the first day of its release, Windows 8 Consumer Preview was downloaded over one million times.^[30][31] Like the Developer Preview, the Consumer Preview is set to expire on the 15 January 2013.

Now if you disagree then request to change the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8