659 members have voted

  1. 1. Why are you less active than you used to on the Neowin forums, or what prevents you from being more active?

    • I'm more active on social networks these days.
      47
    • Technical aspects - e.g. downtimes, design
      14
    • Moderation is too lax.
      25
    • Moderation is too strict.
      24
    • Staff member x is shouldn't be on staff. I'm not coming back until (s)he is demoted.
      17
    • Member y should be on staff. I'm not coming back until (s)he is promoted.
      4
    • Flamewars, fanbois, constant personal attacks
      129
    • Topic x I used to be interested in is hardly discussed anymore. (e.g. OS customisation)
      62
    • Too much discussion of non-technical topics.
      61
    • Too much focus on technical topics.
      1
    • The attitude of certain members of staff.
      42
    • The attitude of certain community members.
      105
    • Who needs the forums? I prefer Neowin IRC.
      9
    • I have a life away from the internet.
      119


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For me it is the half-assed half-baked replies that appear to be written by 10 year olds. Just because this is a forum and the atmosphere is relaxed doesn't give one a licence to write like a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, teeny bopper texting tosser whose sentences are almost impossible to decipher unless one speaks 'duuuhhh' fluently (of which I do not).

How about spending some time to make your posts have structure, an actual point and if you are going to critique someones post then how about coming up with a coherent argument rather than the following garbage I see being posted:

If you can't somebody convince with your product you need to suit. WP7 is not so powerful but their lawyers are. Sad that Microsoft is going to be a patent troll.
Now for Google/Moto to get THEIR patents enforced the same way Apple/Microsoft does. F**k FRAND, sue the b**tards.
  • Like 2

One thing I want to quickly add: how the hell do you view the latest post in a topic on the mobile version? I use to post occasionally on the iPhone before the upgrade but now it's impossible cause I can't to to the last post. Everytime I view a topic I have to start at the first post, and that puts me off completely.

Unless there's a way already that I totally missed?

Looking for a solution to this too, really annoying :/

For me it is the half-assed half-baked replies that appear to be written by 10 year olds. Just because this is a forum and the atmosphere is relaxed doesn't give one a licence to write like a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, teeny bopper texting tosser whose sentences are almost impossible to decipher unless one speaks 'duuuhhh' fluently (of which I do not).

How about spending some time to make your posts have structure, an actual point and if you are going to critique someones post then how about coming up with a coherent argument rather than the following garbage I see being posted:

That's the point I was trying to make, to which Glassed Silver talked about possible pains of over-moderation due to being so strict.

I was a lot younger when I first came here (disregard my join date, I lurked for a year or two), but that didn't give me the right to just go around this board posting like an idiot. No, I was kept in line by the examples I saw from others. Hell, me putting off registration alone until I felt I was able to actually contribute something to the forums says something. These days, it seems no one gives a damn about what they're going to post. They just dribble it out as if it's gold.

I truly believe having stricter guidelines to how people post would be welcome, in areas that have no use for garbage posts. We don't need memes in more serious topics of discussion. Keep that for off-topic chats and whatnot. Hell, we have a whole joke forum for you to do that.

In all honesty, I don't see why people have to get butthurt so easily. I mean, if you're a grown man or woman, you should be able to deal with moderators just enforcing the rules. This whole idea of who should and shouldn't get warned, playing blame games, calling out the mods on bias, and so forth... I dunno. That just seems childish. Grow up, accept what happened, let it go, and keep posting. We all screw up once in a while, we're not perfect, and it's not like being warned on Neowin is going to hurt your resume... Well, unless you work here I guess heh.

The way I see it, you can have quantity or quality, but not both. Having greater numbers means attracting the less savory members. Having higher quality means you'll have to accept there'll be fewer visitors to the forums, but you'll also gain more quality members.

Never mind low quality gibberish posts at the moment. For now, I'd like the moderation team to *try* being more strict on personal attacks in the forums. There will be an inevitable backlash, but try it, stick with it for a little while and see what comes of it.

  • Like 2

That's the point I was trying to make, to which Glassed Silver talked about possible pains of over-moderation due to being so strict.

I was a lot younger when I first came here (disregard my join date, I lurked for a year or two), but that didn't give me the right to just go around this board posting like an idiot. No, I was kept in line by the examples I saw from others. Hell, me putting off registration alone until I felt I was able to actually contribute something to the forums says something. These days, it seems no one gives a damn about what they're going to post. They just dribble it out as if it's gold.

I truly believe having stricter guidelines to how people post would be welcome, in areas that have no use for garbage posts. We don't need memes in more serious topics of discussion. Keep that for off-topic chats and whatnot. Hell, we have a whole joke forum for you to do that.

In all honesty, I don't see why people have to get butthurt so easily. I mean, if you're a grown man or woman, you should be able to deal with moderators just enforcing the rules. This whole idea of who should and shouldn't get warned, playing blame games, calling out the mods on bias, and so forth... I dunno. That just seems childish. Grow up, accept what happened, let it go, and keep posting. We all screw up once in a while, we're not perfect, and it's not like being warned on Neowin is going to hurt your resume... Well, unless you work here I guess heh.

The problem with that is it can be seen as opinionated moderation. Honestly though, I'm all for that. Surprised? Well I would expect no less living in a world inundated with political correctness. Personally, I believe administration should be able to guide this forum to the level of quality they want. I don't think being accepting of mediocrity is going to get us there.

Too many religious/anti-religious republican/democrat zealots on here now!

This is one Reason. There are too many people that want to fight with you.

HOWEVER, this forum is great and really the only forum i'm on now.

Unfortunately I have found that I have less and less time to browse Neowin, I generally look at the news articles that I am interested in but find I hardly browse the forums now. Shame really, I enjoyed the community. Maybe I should try and find some time...

Moderation policies, choice of mods/MVPs, and generally dumber members.

I also loath the merging of many key threads that is absolutely disruptive to discussions. Getting rid of non-tech forums will be a good way to seal the 'never visit again' for me. They are the only place that generally has any discussion of interest. That and the MS beta forums. The main draw of Neowin originally was theming, which is pretty much dead today. Its second main draw is its international membership, which has little effect on tech issues (there are many better forums for that), but makes real world issues far better than some competing sites.

If anything, drop all the non-MS forums. Apple dorks and Droid nazi's are far worse than emotional political debates. That is the key worthless demographic that distorts any normalized tech talk.

I also dont understand why you added a like that has no 'karma' effect on post display order. Liked items should be boiled to the top of long threads.

My reason for posting less often is I find I don't always contribute positively when I post. As such, I usually limit how often I post and how much so I don't annoy the rest of the community :p

  • Like 1

My reason for posting less often is I find I don't always contribute positively when I post. As such, I usually limit how often I post and how much so I don't annoy the rest of the community :p

Usually you're amongst the highest quality contributors on here, so please, step it up again and don't let the butthurt people annoy you for speaking freely and most of the time sensibly.

Glassed Silver:mac

  • Like 2
One thing I want to quickly add: how the hell do you view the latest post in a topic on the mobile version? I use to post occasionally on the iPhone before the upgrade but now it's impossible cause I can't to to the last post. Everytime I view a topic I have to start at the first post, and that puts me off completely. Unless there's a way already that I totally missed?

Looking for a solution to this too, really annoying :/

Tap the bullet point (or star if you've replied to the topic) on the left of the title. I know it's a little odd to have to do that, but that's how you have to do it in the full version these days too, isn't it? I know I do.

Edit: Oops that's for first unread post, not the last post... Sorry!

It'd help to just be able to chose the page from a drop down list...

Large topic + mobile theme + wish to "just see the first post to check what this topic is all about" = rage quit.

Glassed Silver:mac

Neobond can you not merge all the gaming forums into one subforum now, with tags people can tag a thread with, Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/PC. It might make the gaming section seem more lively.

This is perhaps not a bad idea. If the gaming sections' individual subsections are deserted, why not merge them into the main Gamers Hangout section? Console specific threads can simply be prefixed as such (e.g "[Wii U] Super Mario Galaxy 3"), much like threads in other sections are prefixed.

The way I see it, you can have quantity or quality, but not both. Having greater numbers means attracting the less savory members. Having higher quality means you'll have to accept there'll be fewer visitors to the forums, but you'll also gain more quality members.

Never mind low quality gibberish posts at the moment. For now, I'd like the moderation team to *try* being more strict on personal attacks in the forums. There will be an inevitable backlash, but try it, stick with it for a little while and see what comes of it.

Implying personal attacks don't qualify as gibberish. :p But yeah, I can agree with that. It doesn't matter if the person didn't directly insult them either (like saying people who use or have X is an idiot, knowing users here have or use X), there's absolutely no excuse for being an ass to someone for no reason. If that's the attitude people are going to bring, they need to learn it's not welcome here.

Another thing I notice though is that people complain that only certain awful posts get deleted, and believe there must be some sort of bias and conspiracy against X company or Y product. Question is: if you see a bad post and never report it, why the hell would you expect it to get deleted? Yes, the staff patrol the forums, but they're not actively reading every single post and comment that's being made. If you see something that's breaking the rules or even questionably out of line, report it! Worst case scenario: the mods get a few more reports to sift through. Not a big deal... (unless you're a mod I suppose)

That's the point I was trying to make, to which Glassed Silver talked about possible pains of over-moderation due to being so strict.

Personally I find that the moderation as being misplaced and inconsistent rather than moderation being too harsh. Check out 'Fresh' on the politics/news board, or the number of people who reply to posts from the Mac section of the forum with stupid comments about how the original poster should sell their Mac etc.

I was a lot younger when I first came here (disregard my join date, I lurked for a year or two), but that didn't give me the right to just go around this board posting like an idiot. No, I was kept in line by the examples I saw from others. Hell, me putting off registration alone until I felt I was able to actually contribute something to the forums says something. These days, it seems no one gives a damn about what they're going to post. They just dribble it out as if it's gold.

I truly believe having stricter guidelines to how people post would be welcome, in areas that have no use for garbage posts. We don't need memes in more serious topics of discussion. Keep that for off-topic chats and whatnot. Hell, we have a whole joke forum for you to do that.

Or at least consistent guidelines that are consistently enforced which require moderators to actively read the forum rather than just waiting for someone to have a whine via the 'report system' because their precious feelings were hurt.

In all honesty, I don't see why people have to get butthurt so easily. I mean, if you're a grown man or woman, you should be able to deal with moderators just enforcing the rules. This whole idea of who should and shouldn't get warned, playing blame games, calling out the mods on bias, and so forth... I dunno. That just seems childish. Grow up, accept what happened, let it go, and keep posting. We all screw up once in a while, we're not perfect, and it's not like being warned on Neowin is going to hurt your resume... Well, unless you work here I guess heh.

Meh, I'd sooner just see posters not get so butthurt so easily because someone exposures their BS for what it is - be it using strong language. Debating in a forum is a full contact sport but far too many who sign up for the forum have this expectation of their opinions being automatically respected no matter how half-assed and half-baked the opinion might be.

The problem with that is it can be seen as opinionated moderation. Honestly though, I'm all for that. Surprised? Well I would expect no less living in a world inundated with political correctness. Personally, I believe administration should be able to guide this forum to the level of quality they want. I don't think being accepting of mediocrity is going to get us there.

IMHO I have a problem with opinionated moderation because then there is no consistency between the moderators - either there are a set of rules that are consistently implemented or you have a community based moderation system using 'karma' in much the same way reddit operates.

Moderation policies, choice of mods/MVPs, and generally dumber members.

I also loath the merging of many key threads that is absolutely disruptive to discussions. Getting rid of non-tech forums will be a good way to seal the 'never visit again' for me. They are the only place that generally has any discussion of interest. That and the MS beta forums. The main draw of Neowin originally was theming, which is pretty much dead today. Its second main draw is its international membership, which has little effect on tech issues (there are many better forums for that), but makes real world issues far better than some competing sites.

If anything, drop all the non-MS forums. Apple dorks and Droid nazi's are far worse than emotional political debates. That is the key worthless demographic that distorts any normalized tech talk.

I also dont understand why you added a like that has no 'karma' effect on post display order. Liked items should be boiled to the top of long threads.

In all due respects Neowin is a technology orientated forum, it was started as a technology oriented forum geared towards Windows users but then it expanded out to Mac and *NIX users with the non-technology parts of the forum being a non-core part of the forum.

As for 'Apple dorks' and 'Droid nazi's' then I suggest you look at the Apple forum and the number of 'Windows whingers' who post replies to Mac related topics who seem to be too lazy to check that they're actually posting in the Mac part of the forum. Most of the regular Mac users who do post outside of the Mac area don't bring any zealotry with them when compared to the overwhelming tsunami of ignorance that seems to sweep over to the Mac area from other parts of the forum.

Regarding the person further up this page talking abut personal attacks - learn the difference between a personal attack and an observation because the two are not interchangeable. If a person calls you something and uses that as a basis of their argument then that should be slammed but if it is an observation which is a part of a larger critique then quite frankly one should be the bigger man/women and move on with life.

I too noticed that Neowin has considerably slowed down. I guess upcoming windows 8 release is not peaking a lot of curiosity amongst people.

As for my reason..i am too busy with other stuff and have almost no time to spend on Neowin :(

Like many others have mentioned, we've lost many members because the technology talk has died down in the forums. Most posts seem to be about personal problems, and the few that are about technology seem to be nests for flamewars.

Another thing I've noticed is that discussion isn't really happening anymore and the mentality of the forums has shifted into something like a commenting system. What I mean is that people only reply to the original post and don't bother to read anybody else's replies (think of a Facebook status or photo, people usually reply to the original poster, but no one engages in a conversion within the comments). This makes many members feel ignored , as it makes it seem like their contributions go unacknowledged and are not "good enough".

Since many members aren't posting as much, I think that we need to start merging subforums. There are two big advantages to this:

1. It makes the forums seem more active because everything is more concentrated

2. It becomes easier for people to discover new topics that they might have missed because they might've not surfed a particular subforum, therefore leading to more conversation

I think that getting a lot of those political discussions out of the mini spy is a good start. Part of what used to make it really great is discovering new threads on topics that you're familiar with, and can contribute to. That's just about all been lost.

Usually you're amongst the highest quality contributors on here, so please, step it up again and don't let the butthurt people annoy you for speaking freely and most of the time sensibly.

Glassed Silver:mac

Thanks :D I'll post more frequently and lurk less.

  • Like 2
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  • Posts

    • Again, this is an irrelevant attempt to attack the messenger. The truth does not require any justification.
    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
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