Woman Kept Off American Airlines Plane For Allegedly Offensive Shirt

[nominak]

So what does it take for someone to offend you ...........you clearly dont mind them waving a placard in your face

Why does it matter to you?

You know what, if someone is ever offended by something I wear, I don't really give a ****. It's their issue not mine.

If something offends you, who cares? Why should anyone care what you think is offensive.

Don't like it? Tough ****.

[Dashel]

Wow people, you and the airlines really need a life. What is this jr high school? Pretty clear policies like this, that always sound good on paper, are crap in practice. You sure haven't stopped any of the smelly fatasses that can't manage to put on more than a pair of sweatpants but you really think I care about a funny T?

I can wear a t-shirt anywhere publically, with anything on it I choose. Your claim of 'vulgarity' is laughable. If I were her I would have whipped out the girls and given them a taste of that 'speech'.

I wear my 'Faith ****ing Failed Me' shirt when I fly and never had an issue. So again enforcement isn't exactly normalized. 'Respect for others' is most definitely a form of censorship, the most common kind if you look at history.

[Noir Angel]

If we do Neowin post awards I really think that one should win one for most random hate post of the year. Pssssst. The thread and the article weren't about religion in any way. I, personally, have no problem with religious people or non-religious people, that's their business and it's -none- of my business. I take issue with certain aspects of both (as an example the anti-religious zealots are becoming just as bad and stupid as the religious zealots.) but not the overall group or the people in those groups. The reason I mention this is because different people are offended by different things - I didn't find that shirt offensive, I thought it was tactless, but I didn't find it offensive. I recognize however that some people probably would. I have a shirt that has a pot arguing with a kettle and a little speech bubble that says "What the *%#! did you just call me?" - I accept that some people would be offended by that because it actually says the "bad" word. If I were on public transport and they told me to change my shirt because they were offended by that I wouldn't argue because I understand that for some that could be offensive. I knew that when I bought it.

Also you seem offended by the fact that a gigantic percentage of the world's population believes in something that you do not, personally, no offense to you, I find that silly because it really shouldn't affect you, but I understand and accept that you feel that way. I've had people attempt to preach to me and I wasn't interested so I just gave them the brush off, but I didn't get terribly offended by their desire to do so, or the fact that they had conflicting thoughts, feelings, and beliefs to my own. At the end of the day we're all humans and we all have to share a world and we'll always have differences whether we like or understand them.

I don't give a toss what nonsense people believe behind closed doors, but I do start to become offended when they try to stymie the rights of myself an others because of what they believe. Nor do I give a crap how many people believe it, having a large number of followers doesn't automatically make something right. And the fact is, that whether you like the fact or not, it's a fact that creationists and social conservatives can't help but try to make other people's lives their business at every given opportunity.

[nominak]

Whats next, if I cuss in line they will fine me?

I think they have a law for that :p

[devHead]

She got what she deserved? My god man are you insane? It's a t-shirt with a slogan on. We ALL wear t-shirts with slogans on.

Stop condoning this action as if it's okay and should happen again. It's a slippery slope the US is going down.

Did she wear the shirt because she hoped no one would mind and think it was funny? Not likely. A shirt with a phrase like that is worn for one reason. To shock other people with your opinion. Of course, she should have known that along with that shock (people don't use the 'f' word, especially in that context, on their clothing because they don't think it'll get noticed) she would run the risk of being called out for violating the airline's policy. It's a vulgar word! If she wants to wear it, let her try to wear it to work, see if she'll be allowed to by her boss. I have nothing against t-shirts with slogans, but do you really have to be so vulgar and base.

Let me change it; she didn't get what she deserved, she got what she wanted. Media attention. Of course, she missed her plane. Sorry luck that, the **** of a woman.

[devHead]

Wow people, you and the airlines really need a life. What is this jr high school? Pretty clear policies like this, that always sound good on paper, are crap in practice. You sure haven't stopped any of the smelly fatasses that can't manage to put on more than a pair of sweatpants but you really think I care about a funny T?

I can wear a t-shirt anywhere publically, with anything on it I choose. Your claim of 'vulgarity' is laughable. If I were her I would have whipped out the girls and given them a taste of that 'speech'.

I wear my 'Faith ****ing Failed Me' shirt when I fly and never had an issue. So again enforcement isn't exactly normalized. 'Respect for others' is most definitely a form of censorship, the most common kind if you look at history.

Wow, you sound like quite the creep of a human being. But that doesn't offend you right? I mean, I can say anything I want about you, since my opinions and my rights are all the most important thing in the universe. People are messed up around here.

[Noir Angel]

Did she wear the shirt because she hoped no one would mind and think it was funny? Not likely. A shirt with a phrase like that is worn for one reason. To shock other people with your opinion. Of course, she should have known that along with that shock (people don't use the 'f' word, especially in that context, on their clothing because they don't think it'll get noticed) she would run the risk of being called out for violating the airline's policy. It's a vulgar word! If she wants to wear it, let her try to wear it to work, see if she'll be allowed to by her boss. I have nothing against t-shirts with slogans, but do you really have to be so vulgar and base.

Let me change it; she didn't get what she deserved, she got what she wanted. Media attention. Of course, she missed her plane. Sorry luck that, the **** of a woman.

That's a both insidious and rather laughable stereotype. It just so happens that a lot of people, myself included simply don't attach the stigma that you apparently do to swearing because we don't see it as being all that big of a deal. I for one wear my bus w***ers T-shirt simply because I find the inbetweeners really funny. Granted, I don't really care if it offends people but I don't wear it with the intention of doing so it's just an unavoidable side effect. And if we banned the use in public of all actions, items, and phrases that could potentially offend someone... well let's just face it practically nothing would be legal.

The obsession with society to cater to political correctness is frankly pretty disturbing. As far as I am concerned unless something can actually cause tangible social harm (which swearing really does not) people should just be left the hell alone.

[Dashel]

Wow, you sound like quite the creep of a human being. But that doesn't offend you right? I mean, I can say anything I want about you, since my opinions and my rights are all the most important thing in the universe. People are messed up around here.

Of course I'm not offended. I wear them because I like them, because I know it will offend some people is a secondary issue which is really more of a civic duty TO OFFEND those types. People really just need to relax. I think wearing T-Shirts is already a pretty low bar if you want to get right down to it. Can't afford a nice shirt eh? I could give a **** what someone scrawls on it. Our INDIVIDUALITY is the most important thing in the universe, and frankly, I'm a wolf, not a sheep. So your 'rights' to a vulgarity free existence does mean little to me in the grand scheme of things.

What exactly is higher than personal expression again? Being a good little citizen that doesn't rile the herd? F that.

I'm also frankly surprised that someone who quotes Asimov is so conservative on this.

Its like how the damned Canadians apparently only watched the second Star Trek movie and still think it stopped with 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one' (if voluntary) which is superceeded by the idea (STIII) where 'the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the few, or the many'.

In cases of pure expression, the needs of the one are paramount.

[shakey]

You are the one being closed minded by insisting on people believing things the way you do, you can call it censorship, but you are also demanding that people censor their views to not offend you, you can't have it both ways, that's reality

Sure, call me close minded... I'm the guy whos for freedom, while the others want to oppress what people can wear because it "makes them feel things". Bugger off and go somewhere else in your fantasy world. If you think I'm closed minded, you must have a very very bad attitude towards everyone else, because I really am the total opposite. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean people can't do it. Get over yourself.

[KCRic]

On an airline run by a privately owned company? No, you really don't

Funny how they're "privately owned" yet ran, controlled, and secured by the government....

You sure you want to stick with that statement as an argument as to why she shouldn't be allowed to wear a shirt saying whatever she wants? Last time I checked "f**" was a word in the english dictionary used here in America. Thus allowing you the right to use it at will in whatever manner an individual deems necessary. Furthermore, a child can walk down the street, turn on the TV, get on the internet, go to school, listen to the radio, or play online games and hear much - much worse language than "f***" as a descriptive word for sex.

[shakey]

Funny how they're "privately owned" yet ran, controlled, and secured by the government....

You sure you want to stick with that statement as an argument as to why she shouldn't be allowed to wear a shirt saying whatever she wants? Last time I checked "f**" was a word in the english dictionary used here in America. Thus allowing you the right to use it at will in whatever manner an individual deems necessary. Furthermore, a child can walk down the street, turn on the TV, get on the internet, go to school, listen to the radio, or play online games and hear much - much worse language than "f***" as a descriptive word for sex.

Vegas is seen as a family friendly tourist spot.. .yet every single foot you walk down the sidewalk there, it is littered with porn promos that leave nothing to the imagination.

If America can deem Vegas OK for kids, then I'm sure a shirt with the word "****" is OK. People are just getting dumber and dumber... and they are trying to bring everyone else down with them.

[Amarok]

I don't give a toss what nonsense people believe behind closed doors, but I do start to become offended when they try to stymie the rights of myself an others because of what they believe. Nor do I give a crap how many people believe it, having a large number of followers doesn't automatically make something right. And the fact is, that whether you like the fact or not, it's a fact that creationists and social conservatives can't help but try to make other people's lives their business at every given opportunity.

On that first part I'm right there with you, I dislike it when someone tries to force the rules of their lifestyle on someone else and hinder someone else. I didn't say anyone was right or wrong, I just pointed out that both people who believe in something and people who do not make up gigantic portions of the world's population and we have to live with that. Best (imo) to just coexist and move on. I don't know about the woman in the article, but for me coexisting doesn't involve making a scene when my t-shirt is deemed unacceptable attire by a private company. It's a lot easier and less stressful for me to turn my t-shirt inside out or change into a different one than it is to create a scene and flip my biscuit about it. In the end all that woman accomplished was getting herself in a spot of bother, getting lots of negative attention, and gumming up the works for other travelers. Where if she just said "Well this is crap, but okay." and not made a scene she'd have had a story to tell and been on her merry way.

Second part there isn't a fact. It would be a fact if you said SOME/A lot of creationists and social conservatives do that. Not all of them. There are morons in every group on the planet. That would be like saying that every muslim is a terrorist, every democrat is immoral and evil, every republican is a sleazeball, every atheist is the angry petulant type that you find commonly on the internet rather than the totally laid back people that most of them seem to be, etc.

[Praetor]

Wow people, you and the airlines really need a life. What is this jr high school? Pretty clear policies like this, that always sound good on paper, are crap in practice. You sure haven't stopped any of the smelly fatasses that can't manage to put on more than a pair of sweatpants but you really think I care about a funny T?

I can wear a t-shirt anywhere publically, with anything on it I choose. Your claim of 'vulgarity' is laughable. If I were her I would have whipped out the girls and given them a taste of that 'speech'.

I wear my 'Faith ****ing Failed Me' shirt when I fly and never had an issue. So again enforcement isn't exactly normalized. 'Respect for others' is most definitely a form of censorship, the most common kind if you look at history.

Wow. just wow. So respect for others is censorship, eh? Well, since Neowin has rules and some of the folks here don't like Rules then maybe this board / site isn't the right for you.

btw: been seeing lots of anti-religion posts in here. kinda of sad, actually.

[rafter109]

Honestly, here in the Netherlands the vast majority most likely couldn't care less about a humorous shirt like that. Obviously if you're in a place where a certain dress code is expected it's a totally different story. Last time I checked public transportation isn't one of those places.

Here's a shocker as well: We can say the "f-word" (or "n-word" in Dutch) on television without being bleeped. American celebrities always seem so pleasantly surprised about that. :laugh:

I'm glad we haven't gone overboard with the political correctness thing yet.

I don't know about the Netherlands but in the US, airlines are private companies and may institute policies as they wish as long as they do not violate federal laws (state laws don't count much for airlines as they are governed by interstate commerce). When you buy airline tickets you agree to the terms of sale which include airline policies and is a binding contract. When purchasing an airline ticket, you agree to waive certain rights and liberties for the convenience of fast travel. City buses and subways on the other hand are typically operated as publicly funded private enterprise and as such usually only have policies in place in regards to safety and rarely have policies against offensive speech (verbal or non-verbal).

[rafter109]

Wow. just wow. So respect for others is censorship, eh? Well, since Neowin has rules and some of the folks here don't like Rules then maybe this board / site isn't the right for you.

btw: been seeing lots of anti-religion posts in here. kinda of sad, actually.

When you are using the facilities of a private company, you must abide by the rules they put in place. They can refuse service to anyone for any reason unless it can be successfully argued as discrimination. I have removed customers from my store with the assistance of police on several occasions for non-compliance of my demands that they stop using foul language. My store, as well as the airlines are operated as family friendly environments and any business that operates as such is well within their rights to protect that image by any means necessary. Your freedom of speech and expression only applies in public places. The moment you step foot onto private property, that goes out the window and you must conduct yourself in a manner that is consistent with the policies of that establishment otherwise you will likely be refused service and removed. Don't like it? Drive, bike, or walk.

[ShMaunder]

Some people here are seriously up their own backside and appear to have no consideration of others. I personally would never wear a T-shirt in public with socially "bad" words printed on just because I know it will offend others. There are always ways to convey a message without being explicit. This is also common sense IMO.

If the terms of the flight state this isn't allowed, then don't act surprised when told you must change. Though at the same time, I couldn't imagine a T-shirt causing a ruck mid-way through flight or something - so potentially there could have been a little overreaction on the flight staff's judgement.

However, this comes back to a point I was making in the thread about the 4 y/o school girl that was banned from having her photo taken because of her hair. If an organisation relies on discretion/judgement of its staff (i.e. policies that read "...if something is deemed offensive by staff...") in a set of rules/procedures/policies, then people bitch when they are judged against the rules and start calling discrimination and/or censorship etc. Basically, companies are forced to remove this discretion/judgement (aka common sense), and replace it with a very long list of acceptable/unacceptable things because of the few that originally abused it. Then people moan because the list is too long and/or limiting and demand for common sense.

[Lachlan]

On an airline run by a privately owned company? No, you really don't.

Thank you!.. I dont know why ppl are so uptight defending corportation and private companies but when it comes to airlines people assume its a public good and a right to use it.

[Noir Angel]

Thank you!.. I dont know why ppl are so uptight defending corportation and private companies but when it comes to airlines people assume its a public good and a right to use it.

Not really true. I don't really defend all corporations, in fact I dislike most corporations immensely, it just strikes me as somewhat laughable that people think that corporations should be given permission to break discrimination laws just because they're privately owned.

[devHead]

Not really true. I don't really defend all corporations, in fact I dislike most corporations immensely, it just strikes me as somewhat laughable that people think that corporations should be given permission to break discrimination laws just because they're privately owned.

Bro, you must not understand what the word 'discrimination' means. She wasn't not let on because of her gender, religion, race, but because she chose to wear a shirt that used vulgar offensive language to voice her personal opinion. She didn't have to, she chose to. And the rules of the airlines clearly state that such clothing can't be worn. I can't understand the people who gripe about having to show dignity and respect to others. Is the right of a person to use foul language wherever she wants (and in a digusting, perverted manner on her shirt) greater than the right of people to be treated with respect? Since when do the rights of those who want to offend supersede the rights of those who don't want to be offended.

You don't have to wear a shirt with a vulgar phrase on it, period. Foul language is childish, self-centered, arrogant and disgusting, that's all. You want to use it in your speech to make yourself feel good, fine. But don't wear it on your shirt and then force everyone to have to see it, and think 'hey that's their problem!' No, really, it's your problem.

It's a putrid, childish viewpoint of people that try to support a selfish woman like that at the expense of common human decency. So please, don't use the word discrimination.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

The level of absolutely retarded arguments in this thread is quite amazing. I'm out!

[ylcard]

Both are "retarded", the company for having this silly "rule" and the woman for being so stubborn about it, it could have been avoided by the use of common sense by both sides.

[Dashel]

Is the right of a person to use foul language wherever she wants (and in a digusting, perverted manner on her shirt) greater than the right of people to be treated with respect? Since when do the rights of those who want to offend supersede the rights of those who don't want to be offended.

You don't have to wear a shirt with a vulgar phrase on it, period. Foul language is childish, self-centered, arrogant and disgusting, that's all.

In a free society, absolutely. As I mentioned before, the individual's right of expression clearly trumps the 'rights of others to NOT be offended'. That's kinda the whole ****ing point. Now, while profanity isn't always 'protected' speech (as in this case), it is the vast majority of the time which is why it IS allowed in public places. I really like how you change offense to respect there, such a nice Orwellian touch from an Asimov fan.

Foul language is wonderful, creative, and expressive. Those who show an almost clinical revulsion to it are the ones who are childish, arrogant, and self-centered.

Let me guess, people with Tourette's are Satan's minions too.

[soniqstylz]

Its quite simple and has already been explained, the woman in question joined a communial form of transport which has clearly stated will not allow possibly offensive clothing to be worn what ever that form may take.It has nothing at all to do with race creed or colour and to say otherwise is just twisting the argument away from the facts.She could have complied with these regulations which applied to all passengers not just her,or chose a service which wasnt so regulatory.As with most wingers she chose not to and complained about the way she got treated because of it.

You dont like a sevice dont use it and it will quickly close if the community vote goes your way but to complain because of such a closed minded attitude to others feelings is ludicrous.

If I went on an American plane with a t bearing the wording "All American Women are Fat and Ugly" do you think Id even get through the gate or is her political belief better than my non-belief?

this.

[Packet1009]

Honestly, here in the Netherlands....

I'm glad we haven't gone overboard with the political correctness thing yet.

Give it time...

[soniqstylz]

In a free society, absolutely. As I mentioned before, the individual's right of expression clearly trumps the 'rights of others to NOT be offended'. That's kinda the whole ****ing point. Now, while profanity isn't always 'protected' speech (as in this case), it is the vast majority of the time which is why it IS allowed in public places. I really like how you change offense to respect there, such a nice Orwellian touch from an Asimov fan.

Foul language is wonderful, creative, and expressive. Those who show an almost clinical revulsion to it are the ones who are childish, arrogant, and self-centered.

Let me guess, people with Tourette's are Satan's minions too.

It's not a "public place". Free speech extends to the government not being able to censor you, but a private company can do what they want within the confines and where choice is concerned (ie, she chose to wear that shirt).

It's also in the ToS or Rules or whatever regarding flying on American Airlines, on the website, that they can deny service if you wear something deemed offensive.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/customerService/customerCommitment/conditionsOfCarriage.jsp#AcceptPass

American may refuse to transport you, or may remove you from your flight at any point, for one or several reasons, including but not limited to the following:

...

Your conduct is disorderly, abusive or violent, or you

...

Are clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or offense to other passengers,