windows 8 Do you like or hate Windows 8?

[FloatingFatMan]

And no I cannot simply install a 3rd party program and be done with it.

THAT just proves you haven't tried. With Classic Start menu installed, you really can't tell the difference from the original W7 start menu...

Plus, there is no indication as to launchpad completely taking over the standard desktop in OS X. Is there an article somewhere saying OS X 10.9 will have launchpad as a requirement?

So they are bringing a few things from iOS over to OS X. That does not mean they will force launchpad on us.

When they eventually do, Apple fans will love it and see it as the way of the future and a dream to use.

[.Neo]

I just noticed Microsoft's Weather app has ads build in. Nice one.

[rhianntp]

Can't wait to see this product go down in flames, much like Obama will in November ...gonna be a happy new year for sure :) America has had enough

[Calum Veteran]

I just noticed Microsoft's Weather app has ads build in. Nice one.

Good. I'm happy that Microsoft will be rewarded and paid for the free software they're providing us.

[.Neo]

Good. I'm happy that Microsoft will be rewarded and paid for the free software they're providing us.

Are you for real? Last time I checked Windows 8 isn't free software and the Weather app is there by default.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Seriously I don't know how anyone could be for Metros methods. I can have a picture editor open in one window and an IM window open in another window and I can just drag pictures from left to right. No need to save, switch app, open an import dialogue window, navigate to where I saved the photo from the first app.

Seriously stop apologizing for these poor decisions. Also Apple allows both methods. Drag & Drop and an open button to import media. It pleases people like you and people like me. Microsoft? Just people like you. For a company that gets lambasted for not offering choice (Apple) they sure are doing a better job of it than Microsoft right now. I mean heck, I can even drag the Launch Pad out of my dock and never use it but I'm forced to use Metro on Windows 8 every time I start up my computer, install a new app, want to launch something I've not pinned yet etc

I really don't know what else to say about this OS it's an unmitigated failure in every way. I remember apologizers first started saying (around CP) that we would have a Metro off switch and Microsoft wasn't that stupid and we shouldn't be commenting negatively on a Consumer Preview. And now we are at RTM and nothing has changed except the apologizers rhetoric and now it's deal with it, you're a dinosaur the way you have used your computer is wrong. Based on what? Microsofts ambition to take on the iPad haha

I'm not "apologising" for anything. I'm supporting many of the decisions Microsoft made regarding Windows 8 because the user experience is tremendously better than the user experience provided by Windows 7 or Mac OS X. I don't agree with all of Microsoft's decisions regarding Windows 8, but I agree with the vast majority of them, especially the great, new, limited workflow, and I would hate for them to remove that in favour of the cumbersome, messy, less limited Windows 7 workflow. If Microsoft did that, I'd definitely switch to Mac OS X because I deem Mac OS X better than both Windows 7 and the Windows 8 Desktop environment.

The only thing that is currently putting me off Windows 8 is how the Start screen looks: It looks messy to me, at the moment, with all of the different colours, even though I love the idea of the tiles and the Start screen; pinned Desktop apps and websites look dreadful and inconsistent to WinRT apps; and there is an annoying, ever-present horizontal scrollbar, once a certain amount of tiles have been pinned, despite the fact we do not need to use the scrollbar in order to scroll across (we can just move our mouse to the side). Hopefully I'll get over my issues with the Start screen, soon :)

Are you for real? Last time I checked Windows 8 isn't free software and the Weather app is there by default.

The Weather app isn't Windows 8?the Weather app is an app that runs on Windows 8. It's included in the operating system, but it isn't a part of the operating system?it's a separate app, like the Messaging app, only installed by default. Yes, I am for real. I don't mind Microsoft placing ads in their software in order for them to make more money. I'd rather them do that than charge us more for Windows 8.

I tend to ignore ads. I don't remember the last time I saw an ad on Facebook, and I had to just actually scroll to the top of the screen to double-check that ads are still shown on Neowin because I couldn't remember the last time I noticed any.

[.Neo]

The Weather app isn't Windows 8?the Weather app is an app that runs on Windows 8. It's included in the operating system, but it isn't a part of the operating system?it's a separate app, like the Messaging app, only installed by default. Yes, I am for real. I don't mind Microsoft placing ads in their software in order for them to make more money. I'd rather them do that than charge us more for Windows 8.

I tend to ignore ads. I don't remember the last time I saw an ad on Facebook, and I had to just actually scroll to the top of the screen to double-check that ads are still shown on Neowin because I couldn't remember the last time I noticed any.

The second Microsoft feels the need generate additional income by the means of advertisements the app shouldn't be part of the default Windows installation. We have the Marketplace for that. Those apps that do ship with Windows by default can be considered part of the product you bought and should remain ad free.

[FloatingFatMan]

The second Microsoft feels the need to make additional money off of an app by the means of advertisements it shouldn't be part of the default Windows installation. We have the Marketplace for that.

Kinda hard not to agree with that, really. It's a valid point.

At a guess, I'd say this is one of the reasons why MS are able to offer W8 so cheaply...

[Calum Veteran]

The second Microsoft feels the need generate additional income by the means of advertisements the app shouldn't be part of the default Windows installation. We have the Marketplace for that. Those apps that do ship with Windows by default can be considered part of the product you bought and should remain ad free.

I'd updated my post just before you replied (just to let you know), although the sentiment in the updated post is the same.

I'm not sure whether I agree with you about this, so I don't really know what to say, heh :) I think you raise a great point, but as ads don't bother me much, I just don't know where I stand on the matter.

[abysal]

You have got to be kidding me. Every program I have ever installed on Windows 7 has put it in a nice folder and it becomes nicely organized. They even put 5 website shortcuts in a sub-folder labeled Support.

Maybe if you install some random open source software it becomes unorganized.

I've always thought it was organized nicely, and kept things hidden unless until you wanted to browse for that obscure program you forgot the name of (assuming you didn't try and search for it).

I just noticed Microsoft's Weather app has ads build in. Nice one.

Of course, your PC will be a commercial store front for Microsoft. Think Xbox experience with all of the advertising content you see there. Live tiles are prefect for that. This is also why you do not have a choice to boot into the desktop, let alone an option for the "legacy" Windows 7 explorer UI.

[.Neo]

I'm not sure whether I agree with you about this, so I don't really know what to say, heh :) I think you raise a great point, but as ads don't bother me much, I just don't know where I stand on the matter.

I just think it's a sleazy practice to sneak ads into the OS through default installed apps. Paid and ad supported apps should be distributed through the Marketplace. It also doesn't exactly give the OS that "premium" feeling. Rather are cheap one.

[BajiRav]

The second Microsoft feels the need generate additional income by the means of advertisements the app shouldn't be part of the default Windows installation. We have the Marketplace for that. Those apps that do ship with Windows by default can be considered part of the product you bought and should remain ad free.

+1 No ads in included apps. That includes all Xbox XYZ and whatever else including weather as you noticed. Is this new in RTM? I don't see ads in the RP app.

[.Neo]

+1 No ads in included apps. That includes all Xbox XYZ and whatever else including weather as you noticed. Is this new in RTM? I don't see ads in the RP app.

There's a big Advertisements "tab" in the RTM Weather app. Or if you just keep scrolling to the right.

[BajiRav]

There's a big Advertisements "tab" in the RTM Weather app. Or if you just keep scrolling to the right.

Yikes that sucks :s The last thing on the right in RP is "HISTORICAL WEATHER" by Wolfram Alpha.

This is really cheap on Microsoft's part :/ how much will they make from it anyway! If most people use it like I do, you set location/unit and let live tile do the job.

[VivM]

The only problem with that, is then you create TWO different Enterprise user experiences, and operating environments. Twice the work for your company to maintain for one OS

So?

Microsoft is a large company that prints money with its operating system business. Surely they can afford to maintain TWO interfaces. Especially when the 'business' one wouldn't require much new development, since hey... it'd just be mostly Win7's.

[VivM]

Spend some time tweaking it and it's almost exactly like Windows 7. But of course that would require work and heaven forbid that, so now I understand all the whining.

Why is it that users are expected to spend a few hours reversing as best they can the deliberate design decisions made by Steven Sinofsky et al.?

And Metro never goes away, anyways. Plug in a USB drive while you're in desktop... Oh look, here's a weird-looking modal (unlike before) non-dialog thing asking you how what to do with it.

[Dot Matrix]

So?

Microsoft is a large company that prints money with its operating system business. Surely they can afford to maintain TWO interfaces. Especially when the 'business' one wouldn't require much new development, since hey... it'd just be mostly Win7's.

That doesn't make sense. Going by what you propse, businesses are then spending twice as much in vertical development and support maintaining two different vertical app versions for two different operating environments. Leaving Metro in Win8 Pro gives the option to develop for either or.

You have got to be kidding me. Every program I have ever installed on Windows 7 has put it in a nice folder and it becomes nicely organized. They even put 5 website shortcuts in a sub-folder labeled Support.

Maybe if you install some random open source software it becomes unorganized.

It's trashed from the start. See my post on the state of the start menu for why it is, but long story short, all programs in the menu is messy, disorganized, and in need of fixing, which Windows 8 does.

[VivM]

That doesn't make sense. Going by what you propse, businesses are then spending twice as much in vertical development and support maintaining two different vertical app versions for two different operating environments. Leaving Metro in Win8 Pro gives the option to develop for either or.

I think you slightly misunderstood what I was thinking of, but to respond to your view, Isn't that what Apple is doing? If you are, say, Evernote, and you want your app on all Apple platforms, you're maintaining three interfaces: a small touch interface for the iPhone, a big touch interface for the iPad, and a keyboard/mouse interface for the Mac.

MS is no different. You need a small Metro for Windows Phone, a big Metro for Windows 8 tablets, and a classic desktop app for XP/Vista/7 plus people running 8 on large monitor keyboard/mouse systems... (unless you somehow think a big Metro app can be created that is better on keyboard/mouse systems than a traditional desktop app. So far, MS hasn't demoed one such app that I know of.)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

As of right now, Apple knows that you cannot make a tablet type interface on the desktop. Touch screens on the desktop DO NOT WORK. Period.

I will get out of the IT industry if I am forced to program using a touch screen. It will make my arms hurt having them up in the air 8 hours a day.

No one has ever suggested anything of the sort. No one thinks you're going to use a touch keyboard for programming.

But touch works great in concert with a keyboard. Particularly on laptops, which are the vast majority of machines sold today. Believe me, once you get used to touch devices, you'll start poking screens all the time. And when it's not a touchscreen, it will just feel broken.

Keyboard and mouse are...not....going...anywhere. The only next step would have computers read our minds. But a touch screen on a desktop WILL NOT WORK.

Right, that's why Windows embraces all three. And touchscreens *do* work on some desktops for some things. From personal experience I can say they work great for all-in-ones which you use while standing up.

No need to save, switch app, open an import dialogue window, navigate to where I saved the photo from the first app.

Share -> Mail

Done.

[Ravensky]

Piece of ****!

[VivM]

No one has ever suggested anything of the sort. No one thinks you're going to use a touch keyboard for programming.

So why does the programmer have to deal with the Metrified start menu? With Metrified wifi connection utilities? Metrified 'what would you like to do with this device you just plugged in' dialogs? etc.

And what about the sysadmin? How are you supposed to monitor 20-100 servers simultaneously using Metro?

[MorganX]

Good. I'm happy that Microsoft will be rewarded and paid for the free software they're providing us.

I get the sentiment, but, fail.

[Windows Nashville]

Can't wait to see this product go down in flames, much like Obama will in November ...gonna be a happy new year for sure :) America has had enough

"America has had enough of Windows 8" would be a hilarious article title to see on Neowin's front page one day.

[MorganX]

I just think it's a sleazy practice to sneak ads into the OS through default installed apps. Paid and ad supported apps should be distributed through the Marketplace. It also doesn't exactly give the OS that "premium" feeling. Rather are cheap one.

The only saving grace is MS is dramatically reducing the cost of upgrading to Windows 8. Self-serving yes, but in this day and age, a welcome price break.

[NEVER85]

After toying around with the RTM since it leaked, I can honestly say I'm very happy with it. When the CP came out, I was one of the Metro/Start Screen "detractors", but after playing around with it a lot more, I find it more useful than the Win7 and prior Start menu. Even if you don't like the Metro apps, it's as easy as right-clicking them and selecting either Unpin from Start or Uninstall. You can put literally anything you want on that Start Screen. Folders, drives, apps, you name it. Don't know why people are so whiny about it.