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Microsoft faces an uphill battle with desktop users over the changes made in Windows 8. Therefore I'd like to see Microsoft release it at a considerably lower price point, which would easily be made up by the 30% cut they take from sales in the app store. It honestly seems like the best option to deflect criticism over the relatively radical design changes made.

Give me solid reasons why mouse/keyboard shortcuts represent the future and are more intuitive than conventional point/click interface? At best, the only thing you can say about them is that they're different, not better. How is it better to remove things from plain sight and replace them with keyboard commands that the user has to discover and memorize? Things should not be "Googled" in the name of almighty minimalism and simplicity. Keyboard shortcuts are fine as long as they're an option, not the primary means.

I hate Metro and all it stands for. Windows 8 is not the future, it's change for the sake of change. If you're going to do something, go all in, not this half and half **** being offered. Metro is nothing more than a bad idea being jackhammered down our throats by a very influental person within Microsoft that doesn't want to look like an ass if Windows Phone goes ###### up. There is serious disconnect between Microsoft's Corporate and Consumer divisions. For Business, I don't see anyone beyond some douche bag in a social networking company wanting anything Metro offers. Metro is just bird **** on the windshield for someone driving through their work day.

So Neowin forum sux because you have to use your keyboard to post? I though that it was either mouse&keyboard or touchscreen :/ /s

Anyway, you can do almost everything with the mouse too, the only thing that you can't do and who comes in my mind is the semantic zoom that requires a touchpad or mouse&keyboard, but most apps have a button to do so now.

You hate Metro because you don't know how it works, you should better watch for the tutorial before trying it. You are just part of those users who shouldn't try a non-final OS imo.

Are you dumb or ...?

MS added a LOT of a features to the Desktop, they are still supporting it and will support it for a long, long time. It looks like you don't know what you are talking about :/

No need to get personal and start calling me dumb... if you actually READ what i typed you are actually backing up what i said :/

I'm fully aware the desktop is been supported for a long time...

To quote myself:

I mean lets be honest the desktop is going no where, as much as people here are raving its dead.

Where did i say Microsoft are NOT supporting it? I get the impression a lot of people think its dead that's all...

My post was simply agreeing with Raa who said:

"An option to turn the Metro UI off on my desktop computer that does not have a touch interface."

I agree with him, a few choices about how Metro works on a desktop system would be of great benefit and keep everyone happy. If people want to set a PC up that will be used for productivity they should be able to, Metro adds no benefit to that in my opinion and only disrupts your workflow. It would still be there if it needed to be used.

I personally dont want to be thrown out the desktop on a 27" screen to use Metro for something...

By all means you dont have to agree with my view point, thats just what I would like to see in the RTM. Will it happen? No i know that.

Whats the point in making a personal attack out of it it? grow up.

windows vista didn't deserve most of its criticisms, yet it was enough of a failure to have MS quickly address the perceived short falls .. This POS is infinitely worse....it will fail on laptops and desktops ..there will be backlash...we will see an option to turn metro off and have a classic experience...if you think that isn't a contingency plan you are as high as the hipster elitists who designed this disaster

I want a really powerful media player to have on the go. I am sick of limited functionality apps that don't even display the bitrates or have detailed artists info or have a built in EQ. I also want a powerful playlist manager as well that I can "add as next to play" to easily que up the next song I want to play. There's only 2 android media players that have bitrates and one is paid and one has extremely invasive permissions and not to mention battery draining GPS use... arrrg.

I also want more android style task mangement but with easier task switching.

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So Neowin forum sux because you have to use your keyboard to post? I though that it was either mouse&keyboard or touchscreen :/ /s

Anyway, you can do almost everything with the mouse too, the only thing that you can't do and who comes in my mind is the semantic zoom that requires a touchpad or mouse&keyboard, but most apps have a button to do so now.

You hate Metro because you don't know how it works, you should better watch for the tutorial before trying it. You are just part of those users who shouldn't try a non-final OS imo.

I'm not a "user". I've been building, troublshooting/fixing PC's for over a decade. Admittedly, not as much on a personal level in the last 5 years, but its always been part of my job at work. I love trying out new stuff, and played with Windows 8 for a couple of weeks when the first preview was released. Sad for me to say this as a Windows guy first and foremost, but Fedora 17, Ubuntu 12.04 and OpenSuse 12.1 impressed me more. You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business.

To prove that I want to be fair, I'm skid marking my perfectly good HDD with this turd one more time to give it a fair chance. I predict nothing will change, but what the hell, right?

You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business.
It's funny because Windows 8 (along with Windows server 2012) comes with tons of new things for business only. Just look at the many articles posted on Windows 8 blog.

You are an user, you aren't part of any OS developments, neither an UI designer, or a system administrator. Troubleshooting PCs doesn't mean that you are capable of understanding all the new features/concept of Windows 8 in "more than 15 min". Also regarding your post contents, it seems that you have missed a lot of new features inside Windows 8.

Now keep calling it an "abomination", it makes me laugh really hard. Especially since your critics isn't constructive at all. You didn't point to ANY feature that is better in one of the many Linux distributions that you have listed; hence your opinion is pointless.

I will skip Windows 8, hoping for Windows 9 to have the following things:

1.- A truly and fully customizable metro experience (Change app tiles colors, change background color, total control of chrome color, etc)

2.- A better blend between old GUI paradigms and new ones.

3.- Icons in explorer that dont look like plastic.

4.- Better screen space management

Also, by the time Windows 9 it's released many companies would have developed metro versions of their apps, assuming total gui consistency.

I'm not a "user". I've been building, troublshooting/fixing PC's for over a decade. Admittedly, not as much on a personal level in the last 5 years, but its always been part of my job at work. I love trying out new stuff, and played with Windows 8 for a couple of weeks when the first preview was released. Sad for me to say this as a Windows guy first and foremost, but Fedora 17, Ubuntu 12.04 and OpenSuse 12.1 impressed me more. You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business. To prove that I want to be fair, I'm skid marking my perfectly good HDD with this turd one more time to give it a fair chance. I predict nothing will change, but what the hell, right?

Yesterday I installed ubuntu to a certain client that wanted to have it along windows xp, that OS seemed far more touch/keyboard/mice friendly that windows 8 (Vostro 1510, had to modify grub to make the touchpad work).

It's funny because Windows 8 (along with Windows server 2012) comes with tons of new things for business only. Just look at the many articles posted on Windows 8 blog.

You are an user, you aren't part of any OS developments, neither an UI designer, or a system administrator. Troubleshooting PCs doesn't mean that you are capable of understanding all the new features/concept of Windows 8 in "more than 15 min". Also regarding your post contents, it seems that you have missed a lot of new features inside Windows 8.

Now keep calling it an "abomination", it makes me laugh really hard. Especially since your critics isn't constructive at all. You didn't point to ANY feature that is better in one of the many Linux distributions that you have listed; hence your opinion is pointless.

My interpretation of his comment indicated that his use of "user" was meant too be some form of insult. What is your definition of System Admin? At my job, my daily routine encompasses, PC repair, setting up/configuring PCs/Users and Server maintenance. I am the only employee at my workplace that performs these functions. As for your claim that I missed a lot of busniess related things, well not really. I like quite a few things they've added such as performance improvements, better Explorer, File Copy dialog, task manager, etc. What ruins all of this goodness for me is Metro. It brings nothing to the table for Business, period. Honestly, the improvements that I do like won't mean alot when it comes to day to day operations for a non IT business employee. I'm no Linux fanboy, but those Distros I mentioned did have a more positve impact on me than my experience with Windows 8. No, I won't be typing out a long list as to why.

I have just finished installing Windows 8, Office and have begun dumping my data back over. I plan to use it over the course of the next few weeks to see if my opinion has changed. Funny thing though is that the minute I saw the Start screen, all I could think was Ugh.... I will give credit and say that its running much better than the first version they released.

My interpretation of his comment indicated that his use of "user" was meant too be some form of insult.

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

At best, you can say you're not an average user :p

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

At best, you can say you're not an average user :p

Agreed. I don't think of myself as awesome but I'm not an average user. People like Budman are awesome. That guy knows his stuff!

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

If a CLI is your primary litmus of power operator, welcome to powershell and Core.

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  • Posts

    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
    • Cheers everyone for the replies. It's been very useful. 👍
    • Compared to the 7735HS it is around 25-30% slower in multi-threaded tasks (according to Google search) I did a review of the 7735HS Beelink SER6 Max in 2023, but thinking about it, it's not comparable to the 7730U. For the example you gave about how it will be used, the 7730U is actually an excellent choice for its power and battery efficiency.
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