What do you want from Windows 8 RTM?

[mduren2445]

it to work! :rofl:

[JustGeorge]

A few observations since last night:

1. I think they severely screwed up the "Previous Versions" feature from Windows 7 by replacing it with "File History". It apparently now requires a separate drive to work and no longer accessible via right-click. Yes, it's more reliable in the event of HDD failure to be on a separate HDD, but I think they could've kept it like it was and added the ability to move the data to another drive. If they thought such a useful feature wasn't being utilized, they could've done a better job marketing it instead of crippling it and making it less configurable/accessible.

2. Was the ability to create a recovery image too straight forward and complicated? I see the option to make a recovery drive, but no option to burn a set of recovery DVD's. OEM's and Imaging Software vendors must've bitched that it cut into their business.

3. Metro's Mail Application devalues Windows 8 by $100.

4. Why is the Metro Start screen listing Adobe Reader, Imgburn, Windows LIve Mail, Paint.Net and Firefox under "Apps" but removes their executable from their Program category listing? Office 2007 applications shows on Metro Start and the exe's are also listed in program categories. This is very inconsistent and messy.

5. Why can I not choose a wallpaper backdrop for Metro?

As mentioned previously, this newer release is running more smoothly than the first release. Installation was performed on two different PC's and was a breeze. Didn't have to hunt down a single driver for either. Metro has become tolerable too me but certainly not preferred. System performance is on par with my Windows 7 install. I'm really trying, but I still have not found a justification for Metro's existence on a desktop or laptop. Touch capability would help its cause, but even with that, you still don't need it. As I see it, Metro is relevant for phones, tablets, Xbox and even HTPC with Kinect, but not a desktop O.S.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

3. Metro's Mail Application devalues Windows 8 by $100.

Well that's just a silly thing to say. If you don't like it, don't use it.

4. Why is the Metro Start screen listing Adobe Reader, Imgburn, Windows LIve Mail, Paint.Net and Firefox under "Apps" but removes their executable from their Program category listing? Office 2007 applications shows on Metro Start and the exe's are also listed in program categories. This is very inconsistent and messy.

Not sure what you're referring to here?

I'm really trying, but I still have not found a justification for Metro's existence on a desktop or laptop. Touch capability would help its cause, but even with that, you still don't need it. As I see it, Metro is relevant for phones, tablets, Xbox and even HTPC with Kinect, but not a desktop O.S.

What do you mean by "need it?" Do you mean, there aren't (yet) any Metro style apps that you'd like to use on your desktop or laptop?

[rfirth]

4. Why is the Metro Start screen listing Adobe Reader, Imgburn, Windows LIve Mail, Paint.Net and Firefox under "Apps" but removes their executable from their Program category listing?

It's consistent with the old start menu, and it's completely up to the developer to do. It's not removing the shortcut from their program category listing... it simply never existed.

Think start menu. In the old start menu, some programs would go in folders, and some would not. Basically, if there is more than one shortcut in the start menu for a program, it would get a folder.

Now, look at the current All Programs (now All Apps) screen. Listed first is all the apps that aren't in folders, in alphabetical order. Next comes the folders, where the folder name is the program category listing.

I think it all comes down to old installers. I'd expect new, updated programs to behave better in the future.

Office 2007 applications shows on Metro Start and the exe's are also listed in program categories. This is very inconsistent and messy.

All applications can be listed on Metro Start. Some installers force the shortcut to display on the start screen automatically on default. Not entirely sure what you concern is. Obviously all programs will be listed in "All apps", but the program categories are simply folders that the installer created.

If a CLI is your primary litmus of power operator, welcome to powershell and Core.

I'm not interested in constructing a hierarchy of users.

[psreloaded]

A proper desktop would be a good start, rather than what feels like a tablet OS being badly retro-fitted to the desktop.

This...

[contextfree]

Better unification of system bits. The mis matched tooltips have been irking me since Vista. Now there's another added to the mix. Good grief.

Notice that if you use desktop IE10, within the webpage it uses the new "Metro style" tooltips (because it uses the same rendering engine as Metro style IE10) but in the chrome it uses the old tooltips (because it uses the same chrome as IE9 basically) :laugh:

[Argi]

The Metro mail app is a usability nightmare for a mouse. Basic things like drag and drop are gone, replaced with selecting the item, moving the mouse down to the bottom of the screen to click move (why do you think they added the little floating formatting box in Office 2007 was it?), and then finally select the folder.

I've been generally supportive of Metro, and I do like it and think that it'll be bloody awesome on a tablet, but from a PC perspective it's pretty much going to be using desktop apps for the most part, as their new Metro counterparts are schizophrenic from a mouse usability perspective (each app seems to do its own thing, although the charm bar does try to consolidate some common functionality) - there's very little consistency in the way to do things.

Perhaps 3rd party apps will be better.

[contextfree]

The Metro mail app is a usability nightmare for a mouse. Basic things like drag and drop are gone, replaced with selecting the item, moving the mouse down to the bottom of the screen to click move (why do you think they added the little floating formatting box in Office 2007 was it?), and then finally select the folder.

+1, I really wish they'd copy the floating formatting box (or something that serves the same function) everywhere like they did the ribbon. There's also the approach taken by Music (in your collection) and Tweetro where they just put buttons directly on an item when it's selected.

It's not like drag and drop wouldn't be nice to have for touch too though.

[Dashel]

Well that's just a silly thing to say. If you don't like it, don't use it.

It is so abysmally bad, along with most of the other apps (Music, Video, Calendar, Messenger, People), 'just don't use it' isn't really a constructive position. These should be showcase apps, not reasons to run screaming back to the desktop.

[x-scratch]

to be honest nothing i tried the current release for 2 weeks & went back to win 7... metro is not for me

[PGHammer]

Not to be forced into using RT.

Actually, the only way you are forced into using RT is if you buy Windows RT.

If you run Windows 8 on x32 or x64 hardware, you can stick with the applications and games you run on Windows 7 (or older versions back to XP) today. (The ONLY game I have been unable to run in Windows 8 is Tera Online.)

I have three applications that are RT-based that I run on Windows 8 - Mail/Messaging (it's not the default - Outlook 2010 is the default for mail, and Yahoo is my defaunt messaging client for text, and Skype is for voice chat and video/VoIP), AccuWeather.com (which is the only RT application that replaced a Win32 appilication/utility - in my case, it replaced AWS WeatherBug) and SkyDrive (I used the browser interface before). Otherwise, I use the same software I did in Windows 7.

That may be, in fact, why Windows 8 is getting little respect - a lot of the criticism of Windows 8 has little or nothing to do with backward compatibility (in terms of software OR hardware) but in terms of the WinRT application space. I seriously have to wonder if that criticism is because they wanted to replace Windows 7 with WindowsRT (lower cost of entry than a Windows PC of today) as opposed to a tablet running Android (including forks such as the Kindle Fire). Windows RT isn't really ready because the WinRT app space isn't ready (how long has it taken for the Android and iOS app markets to get where they are?), and I expect it will take as LEAST as long as it took Android (largely because it will primarily be Android-based developers that will make the jump to WinRT as opposed to iOS developers).

Because I have been, in fact, through the growing pains of the Windows application space twice before (first, the movement out of Win16 to Win32 with 9x/NT/2000/XP, then the gradual and ongoing migration and pure growth of the Win64-native space beginning with XP64 through 7 x64 and now 8 x64 RP), I realized I didn't want to be trapped without backward-compatibility; by going with WindowsRT, I'd be just as trapped as purchasing a device based on Android or iOS. There is WAY too much useful (to me) software in the Win32 space to throw that away - that metric in and of itself leaves only 7 x64 and 8 x64. And looking strictly at hardware and software compatibility and performance, 8 beats 7 (and that includes 7 x64 + SP1) and beats it rather badly. (That has been, in fact, the biggest shocker so far - backward compatibility is something that new versions, and especially pre-release versions, of Windows usually get wrong, and often horribly wrong. So far, there's been one application issue , and one gaming issue, in *all* my Windows 8 testing - and the application issue - Skype - has been fixed.)

If you like backward-compatibility, but also like Windows 8's UI, then Windows 8 on x32/x64 is the hedge bet of hedge bets in software today.

[JustGeorge]

What do you mean by "need it?" Do you mean, there aren't (yet) any Metro style apps that you'd like to use on your desktop or laptop?

Meaning I haven't yet found a justification for Metro on a Desktop O.S. What exactly does Metro and it's separate "Apps" bring to the table that someone just couldn't create a Desktop Application to perform the same function? Could someone not write a desktop application in HTML/Javascript instead of Win32 if they chose to? Metro's addition to the Desktop just makes the O.S. look like it doesn't know what it wants too be. It's a solution looking for a problem. Again, no problems with Touch enabled phones, tablets HTPC's and gaming consoles but not a Desktop.

Well that's just a silly thing to say. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Have you used it? Because anyone with standards would conclude the same thing: It's a joke. Bing Weather is nice though.

It's consistent with the old start menu, and it's completely up to the developer to do. It's not removing the shortcut from their program category listing... it simply never existed.

Think start menu. In the old start menu, some programs would go in folders, and some would not. Basically, if there is more than one shortcut in the start menu for a program, it would get a folder.

Now, look at the current All Programs (now All Apps) screen. Listed first is all the apps that aren't in folders, in alphabetical order. Next comes the folders, where the folder name is the program category listing.

I think it all comes down to old installers. I'd expect new, updated programs to behave better in the future.

All applications can be listed on Metro Start. Some installers force the shortcut to display on the start screen automatically on default. Not entirely sure what you concern is. Obviously all programs will be listed in "All apps", but the program categories are simply folders that the installer created.

Yes, it's consistent with the traditional start menu, but the way it presents on Metro start makes it look awful. I agree though that as installers become Metro compliant, this will improve.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

<p>

Meaning I haven't yet found a justification for Metro on a Desktop O.S. What exactly does Metro and it's separate "Apps" bring to the table that someone just couldn't create a Desktop Application to perform the same function? Could someone not write a desktop application in HTML/Javascript instead of Win32 if they chose to? Metro's addition to the Desktop just makes the O.S. look like it doesn't know what it wants too be. It's a solution looking for a problem. Again, no problems with Touch enabled phones, tablets HTPC's and gaming consoles but not a Desktop.

I can't even count the number of reasons. But a huge one is user confidence. Metro-style apps always install and uninstall cleanly, they can't leave anything behind or reach outside of their sandbox (except with direct user consent like choosing a file in the File Picker). You don't get that with desktop apps. And there's the platform. "Write an application in HTML/JavaScript" is a far cry from writing a JS app using WinRT. And yes, there are many things you cannot do in traditional JS environments which are now ridiculously easy in a WinRT app.

Have you used it? Because anyone with standards would conclude the same thing: It's a joke. Bing Weather is nice though.

Yes I use it every single day and it's great. Remember that you're using a preview version. It's not done.

[contextfree]

I like the mail client. It lets me check my mail, durr. If I want to do something more involved I'll go to the Gmail web interface like I always have, but Metro style Mail is a quicker and more pleasant experience for quick checking.

The only thing I hate is that apparently there is no way to disable the "Sent from my Windows 8 PC" signature (other than manually deleting it each time). That is just incredibly obnoxious, but I am charitably assuming this will be changed in the final version. If it's not, I'll join the "devalues by $100" camp ... :angry:

[neo1911]

Meaning I haven't yet found a justification for Metro on a Desktop O.S. What exactly does Metro and it's separate "Apps" bring to the table that someone just couldn't create a Desktop Application to perform the same function?

Metro is designed with pure profit in mind.

[DKAngel]

for it to be installed on my computer :p

[theyarecomingforyou]

I can't even count the number of reasons. But a huge one is user confidence. Metro-style apps always install and uninstall cleanly, they can't leave anything behind or reach outside of their sandbox (except with direct user consent like choosing a file in the File Picker). You don't get that with desktop apps.

True, and it's something I like about the implementation of Metro apps. But there's no reason Microsoft couldn't have added such a system to the desktop, especially for x86/x64 apps distributed via the Windows Store. Metro apps - as they stand today - are poorly designed, poorly featured and poorly implemented for desktop use. They are, with very few exceptions, not suited to desktop use. Hopefully we'll see some really innovative approaches going into the future but that's pure speculation.

There's nothing wrong with Metro as a concept but the current implementation leaves a lot to be desired, as least on the desktop. Fortunately there is no need to use Metro - for the most part - on the desktop. The start screen is actually well implemented - it's just the hot-corners and charms bar do get in the way. So it's perfectly possible to continue using Windows 8 as a desktop operating system (as I currently am doing), as which it offers numerous benefits. I just hope that Microsoft can work through the issues with Metro / the UI for Windows 9, as currently it's very inconsistent.

[mduren2445]

this is probably a new topic but I think it pertains to this one --- Question -- will you be buying Windows 8 when it comes out? I personally will not unless I can get it cheap because there are no new features to me that scream "I GOTTA HAVE' personally I think Windows 8 is Windows 7 dressed up

[Dashel]

Yes I use it every single day and it's great. Remember that you're using a preview version. It's not done.

So, you have a different version than us or is that just rosey glasses?

I'll either get it via TechNet or VL, if I had to pay I probably would pass. It will be preloaded on my Surface anyway. ;)

[JustGeorge]

personally I think Windows 8 is Windows 7 dressed up

Even that is highly questionable. If they ported the enhancements to Windows 7 as a paid service pack (task manager, file copy dialogs, ASLR hardening, and pre sign-in wallpaper/clock screen) I buy it and be a happy camper.

[Xerino]

metro app support for netbook installs on 1024x600 resolution...

[giannisgx89]

I would to see the metro interface with not so big fonts and more mouse/keyboard friendly.

[Anthonyd]

I would to see the metro interface with not so big fonts and more mouse/keyboard friendly.

Like? There's no trouble to use Metro apps with mouse&keyboard shortcuts.

[Luka Radunovic]

Option to have Desktop as default screen on log on. Perhaps can be done through group policy on Domain.

[SYBINX]

An end to all these ****ing threads..

Here, here... Agreed. :woot: