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Microsoft faces an uphill battle with desktop users over the changes made in Windows 8. Therefore I'd like to see Microsoft release it at a considerably lower price point, which would easily be made up by the 30% cut they take from sales in the app store. It honestly seems like the best option to deflect criticism over the relatively radical design changes made.

Give me solid reasons why mouse/keyboard shortcuts represent the future and are more intuitive than conventional point/click interface? At best, the only thing you can say about them is that they're different, not better. How is it better to remove things from plain sight and replace them with keyboard commands that the user has to discover and memorize? Things should not be "Googled" in the name of almighty minimalism and simplicity. Keyboard shortcuts are fine as long as they're an option, not the primary means.

I hate Metro and all it stands for. Windows 8 is not the future, it's change for the sake of change. If you're going to do something, go all in, not this half and half **** being offered. Metro is nothing more than a bad idea being jackhammered down our throats by a very influental person within Microsoft that doesn't want to look like an ass if Windows Phone goes ###### up. There is serious disconnect between Microsoft's Corporate and Consumer divisions. For Business, I don't see anyone beyond some douche bag in a social networking company wanting anything Metro offers. Metro is just bird **** on the windshield for someone driving through their work day.

So Neowin forum sux because you have to use your keyboard to post? I though that it was either mouse&keyboard or touchscreen :/ /s

Anyway, you can do almost everything with the mouse too, the only thing that you can't do and who comes in my mind is the semantic zoom that requires a touchpad or mouse&keyboard, but most apps have a button to do so now.

You hate Metro because you don't know how it works, you should better watch for the tutorial before trying it. You are just part of those users who shouldn't try a non-final OS imo.

Are you dumb or ...?

MS added a LOT of a features to the Desktop, they are still supporting it and will support it for a long, long time. It looks like you don't know what you are talking about :/

No need to get personal and start calling me dumb... if you actually READ what i typed you are actually backing up what i said :/

I'm fully aware the desktop is been supported for a long time...

To quote myself:

I mean lets be honest the desktop is going no where, as much as people here are raving its dead.

Where did i say Microsoft are NOT supporting it? I get the impression a lot of people think its dead that's all...

My post was simply agreeing with Raa who said:

"An option to turn the Metro UI off on my desktop computer that does not have a touch interface."

I agree with him, a few choices about how Metro works on a desktop system would be of great benefit and keep everyone happy. If people want to set a PC up that will be used for productivity they should be able to, Metro adds no benefit to that in my opinion and only disrupts your workflow. It would still be there if it needed to be used.

I personally dont want to be thrown out the desktop on a 27" screen to use Metro for something...

By all means you dont have to agree with my view point, thats just what I would like to see in the RTM. Will it happen? No i know that.

Whats the point in making a personal attack out of it it? grow up.

windows vista didn't deserve most of its criticisms, yet it was enough of a failure to have MS quickly address the perceived short falls .. This POS is infinitely worse....it will fail on laptops and desktops ..there will be backlash...we will see an option to turn metro off and have a classic experience...if you think that isn't a contingency plan you are as high as the hipster elitists who designed this disaster

I want a really powerful media player to have on the go. I am sick of limited functionality apps that don't even display the bitrates or have detailed artists info or have a built in EQ. I also want a powerful playlist manager as well that I can "add as next to play" to easily que up the next song I want to play. There's only 2 android media players that have bitrates and one is paid and one has extremely invasive permissions and not to mention battery draining GPS use... arrrg.

I also want more android style task mangement but with easier task switching.

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So Neowin forum sux because you have to use your keyboard to post? I though that it was either mouse&keyboard or touchscreen :/ /s

Anyway, you can do almost everything with the mouse too, the only thing that you can't do and who comes in my mind is the semantic zoom that requires a touchpad or mouse&keyboard, but most apps have a button to do so now.

You hate Metro because you don't know how it works, you should better watch for the tutorial before trying it. You are just part of those users who shouldn't try a non-final OS imo.

I'm not a "user". I've been building, troublshooting/fixing PC's for over a decade. Admittedly, not as much on a personal level in the last 5 years, but its always been part of my job at work. I love trying out new stuff, and played with Windows 8 for a couple of weeks when the first preview was released. Sad for me to say this as a Windows guy first and foremost, but Fedora 17, Ubuntu 12.04 and OpenSuse 12.1 impressed me more. You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business.

To prove that I want to be fair, I'm skid marking my perfectly good HDD with this turd one more time to give it a fair chance. I predict nothing will change, but what the hell, right?

You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business.
It's funny because Windows 8 (along with Windows server 2012) comes with tons of new things for business only. Just look at the many articles posted on Windows 8 blog.

You are an user, you aren't part of any OS developments, neither an UI designer, or a system administrator. Troubleshooting PCs doesn't mean that you are capable of understanding all the new features/concept of Windows 8 in "more than 15 min". Also regarding your post contents, it seems that you have missed a lot of new features inside Windows 8.

Now keep calling it an "abomination", it makes me laugh really hard. Especially since your critics isn't constructive at all. You didn't point to ANY feature that is better in one of the many Linux distributions that you have listed; hence your opinion is pointless.

I will skip Windows 8, hoping for Windows 9 to have the following things:

1.- A truly and fully customizable metro experience (Change app tiles colors, change background color, total control of chrome color, etc)

2.- A better blend between old GUI paradigms and new ones.

3.- Icons in explorer that dont look like plastic.

4.- Better screen space management

Also, by the time Windows 9 it's released many companies would have developed metro versions of their apps, assuming total gui consistency.

I'm not a "user". I've been building, troublshooting/fixing PC's for over a decade. Admittedly, not as much on a personal level in the last 5 years, but its always been part of my job at work. I love trying out new stuff, and played with Windows 8 for a couple of weeks when the first preview was released. Sad for me to say this as a Windows guy first and foremost, but Fedora 17, Ubuntu 12.04 and OpenSuse 12.1 impressed me more. You don't need more than 15min to conclude this O.S. offers nothing in terms of productivity improvments over Windows 7 for normal day to day business. To prove that I want to be fair, I'm skid marking my perfectly good HDD with this turd one more time to give it a fair chance. I predict nothing will change, but what the hell, right?

Yesterday I installed ubuntu to a certain client that wanted to have it along windows xp, that OS seemed far more touch/keyboard/mice friendly that windows 8 (Vostro 1510, had to modify grub to make the touchpad work).

It's funny because Windows 8 (along with Windows server 2012) comes with tons of new things for business only. Just look at the many articles posted on Windows 8 blog.

You are an user, you aren't part of any OS developments, neither an UI designer, or a system administrator. Troubleshooting PCs doesn't mean that you are capable of understanding all the new features/concept of Windows 8 in "more than 15 min". Also regarding your post contents, it seems that you have missed a lot of new features inside Windows 8.

Now keep calling it an "abomination", it makes me laugh really hard. Especially since your critics isn't constructive at all. You didn't point to ANY feature that is better in one of the many Linux distributions that you have listed; hence your opinion is pointless.

My interpretation of his comment indicated that his use of "user" was meant too be some form of insult. What is your definition of System Admin? At my job, my daily routine encompasses, PC repair, setting up/configuring PCs/Users and Server maintenance. I am the only employee at my workplace that performs these functions. As for your claim that I missed a lot of busniess related things, well not really. I like quite a few things they've added such as performance improvements, better Explorer, File Copy dialog, task manager, etc. What ruins all of this goodness for me is Metro. It brings nothing to the table for Business, period. Honestly, the improvements that I do like won't mean alot when it comes to day to day operations for a non IT business employee. I'm no Linux fanboy, but those Distros I mentioned did have a more positve impact on me than my experience with Windows 8. No, I won't be typing out a long list as to why.

I have just finished installing Windows 8, Office and have begun dumping my data back over. I plan to use it over the course of the next few weeks to see if my opinion has changed. Funny thing though is that the minute I saw the Start screen, all I could think was Ugh.... I will give credit and say that its running much better than the first version they released.

My interpretation of his comment indicated that his use of "user" was meant too be some form of insult.

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

At best, you can say you're not an average user :p

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

At best, you can say you're not an average user :p

Agreed. I don't think of myself as awesome but I'm not an average user. People like Budman are awesome. That guy knows his stuff!

Yeah, I saw that. Oh well. If you use Windows, you're really a user - no matter how awesome you think you are. Even the Microsoft developers writing Windows 8 are Windows users... they develop Windows 8 on Windows 8, not some 1337 version of Linux or Midori or expert MinWin awesomeness.

If a CLI is your primary litmus of power operator, welcome to powershell and Core.

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    • Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 Ergonomic Office Chair review: The Ikea of chairs by Steven Parker I've reviewed a few gaming chairs over the past three years or so and generally found them to score well in our reviews. SIHOO reached out asking if I was interested in taking a look at their flagship chair, the Doro C300 Pro V2. I never got the chance to check out its predecessor, but the V2 is described as an "Adaptive Ergonomic Chair." It became available to buy in April of this year. Let's get things rolling with a closer look at the specifications and features. Specifications Doro C300 Pro V2 Model Ergonomic Materials Mesh Back and Seat; Soft PU Coated Armrests Height adjustability 45.5 - 53 cm / 17.5" - 20.9" Seat (w+d) 52 x 43 - 47 cm / 20.5" x 16.9" - 18.5" (adjustable) Backrest 52 – 60 cm / 20.5" - 23.6" (adjustable) Lumbar support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Armrest adjustability 8D Bionic Armrests Rocking angle 105°, 120°, 135° (fixed) Neck support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Net weight 27.3 kg / 59.64 lbs Weight support 150 kg / 330 lbs Colors Black, White Warranty 5 years (upon registering) Price $499.99, $539.99 Introduction At first glance, it looks like a chair that in another life wants to be a Herman Miller; It certainly looks like my Aeron Remastered, but the Doro C300 Pro V2 has quite a few more features and costs quite a bit less. SIHOO says that it is made up of a "DynaCore" system that tracks your movement and synchronizes the headrest, backrest, lumbar support, and armrests as you shift, twist, or recline. They also say that the "SyncroFlex Backrest" molds to your spine, which kind of describes how the mesh fabric works in most ergonomic chairs, but anyway. Below are the meat and potatoes measurements for the chair. Here is the same tech sheet, but in inches. Durability I would be remiss to not talk about the various durability testing this chair underwent before coming to market, as this is claimed on the product page. First of all, the chair is BIFMA-, SGS-, and TÜV-certified. As for durability, the tests undergone were: 100,000 Castor cycles tested 120,000 Armrest cycles tested 120,000 Recline cycles tested 120,000 Gas lift cycles tested 60,000 Armrest durability cycles tested 120,000 Rotation cycles tested Nothing about weights testing, though. Now that's all disclosed, now onto my own personal findings. Assembly The Doro C300 Pro V2 came in two large boxes (1) (2), and everything was packed very well, protecting the different parts of the chair. In the box, there is a folded sheet that explains the 12 steps to assemble it; they are: Remove the bottom cover on the aluminum base; Insert the five legs into the aluminum base and use ten screws to fasten them; Insert the castors into the legs; Replace the bottom cover on the bottom of the aluminum base; Place the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder into the aluminum base; Screw the bottom part of the arm rests, taking care of the orientation using two screws on each side; Use three torx screws to fasten the footrest to the bottom of the seat; Fasten the backrest to the seat using four torx bolts; Fasten the armrests to the backrest using four Torx bolts (two on each side), taking care to note the orientation; Place the chair onto the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder; Insert the headrest into the top of the backrest; Use two torx screws to fasten the headrest to the backrest. There's also an online guide you can refer to. Carefully unpacking the two boxes took around 15 minutes because almost everything is wrapped in plastic and protective foam; the chair assembly itself took around an hour. I say in the above assembly steps to take note of the orientation, because it's not obvious which way around the bottom portion of the armrests go, and although there is an L and R on the bottom of the armrests, it also wasn't clear from the instructions which was actually left or right, facing the chair, or in the seated down orientation? Anyway, I ended up putting the bottom portions on the wrong sides, and after securing one of the armrests, I discovered that although it was on the correct side, the armrest base could rotate a full 360°, but not when bolted to the chair, so I had to remove it, rotate it, and then bolt it back on. Truly an Ikea experience! Also, to complicate things further, although all the parts are labeled from A to X (yes, that's 24 parts) unhelpfully, these letters do not appear on the parts themselves or the package with the bolts, screws, and washers. There's also a pair of protective gloves in the box, but I think they were made for much smaller hands than I have. Even my friend, who is 5.1, had difficulty putting them on. Once assembled, I needed to sit down. Anyway, as I said, it looks quite similar to my Herman Miller. And here is the back of it. If you look at the product page and on Amazon, it seems like a lot of thought has gone into the chair itself and what it's capable of, but there is no mention at all about the castors, and this is an area where I think the chair trips up quite quickly. I found it difficult to move the chair in any direction. I asked a friend who came to visit me earlier this week to test my findings, and she said that the wheels were "no good," so it definitely isn't just me. I am 6'2 myself and a big guy, I work from home and gained a few pounds from mostly staying in and the hell away from other people. However, the Doro C300 Pro V2 is rated for up to 150kg (330lbs), which in my case is used well within its max rating. Ergonomics The number of adjustments you can make, right up to setting it in nap mode — which I haven't fully tested yet — is what you'd expect from a premium chair. Yes, you can go up and down (max 7.5 cm adjustment), rock back and forth (with tilt adjustment), and lock the chair between three stages of 105°, 120°, 135°, which is not quite as flat as the AndaSeat I tested at 160°. Some thought has also gone into the "8D" armrests, too, which are cushioned but quite firm; you'll only know it if you press hard into the PU-covered tops, which give about half a centimeter, but it's enough to ensure your skin won't get awkwardly stuck to it in warmer (or sweatier) conditions. It almost feels like plastic and is very easy to keep clean. However, the armrest positions move far too easily, and I am not sure what that "elbow" function is. Maybe it is good for a short person with short arms, anyway, I never used it and kept it flat at all times. There are eight levels of adjustment for the armrests, they are: backwards, forwards, swing left/right, height up and down, tilt, and 360° rotation, which can be handy for desk clearance. As I said, the armrest pads shift far too easily, which could give off an ergonomic vibe, but who wants the armrest sliding when you are shifting weight? The height adjustability does lock into place when lifting and adjusting. Comfort This is ultimately what it boils down to at the end of the day, right? Quite a lot of reviews praise the comfort of this chair, and I don't disagree that the mesh seating is quite comfortable. I am used to the material from my daily Herman Miller. However, the backrest cannot be locked into place, and this is actually a feature; as you shift or recline yourself on the chair, the backrest moves with your body. It took some getting used to. The lumbar gives ample support, but I would have preferred an adjustable one built into the seat base, as this causes the backrest to move up and down at will. Again, as with my previous chair review, this chair is also rated for tall people, but nowhere in the product documentation does it say how tall. Being 6'2 myself, I'm happy to say that the backrest is tall and wide enough, and thought has been given to being able to adjust the neck rest, but as others have mentioned in their reviews, people as tall as 6.2ft is about the limit for the neckrest. Conclusion What I didn't like The footrest is rated for 15kg (33 lbs), which to me seems a bit light, and after looking online, it seems like a chair footrest for adults must be at least twice that rating. In all honesty, they are just hollow metal tubes, so it is not recommended to let a kid sit on them. I also feel like it doesn't really go out far enough for my height, so that kind of puts the dampener on me being able to use it regularly. I'll just have to continue to use my subwoofer as a footrest! I do not like the armrests being able to shift around as easily as they can, and they are a little too forward-positioned in the chair to comfortably sit close to my desk, because even in the lowest height position, they don't allow me to go under the desk like is possible with my Herman Miller. I also feel like this chair could have been delivered partially constructed, especially the armrests on the seat, and why the aluminum base wasn't already pre-constructed (without the castors) is baffling, considering it would have fit in one of the two boxes that way. The instructions also need to be clearer. On the pamphlet, there's an A to X listing (which is also used in the steps), but none of the physical parts use this lettering system! What I did like I'll be honest, I haven't used it for very long, just one week, and seating comfort is subjective after all! Any spills wiped straight off it, the stitching, and the lines look great, not a fray to be seen or stitch out of place. It looks kind of cool, too. My favorite feature of these seats is the nap mode. While you're not lying completely flat, it leans far back enough to make you easily doze off after a heavy gaming or working session. Overall, this chair offers plenty of comfort features. The MSRP does vary quite a bit depending on the region, at £549.99 in the UK, and €580 in Europe, and $599 before tax in the U.S. However, shipping is free, which is a bonus for such a heavy item. Is it worth it, though? At three years' warranty, I think it's a decent deal. Another firm out of Germany sent me a free replacement hydraulic gas spring for a chair that failed after almost four years, so it was well outside its two-year warranty. My advice is to always try, as you might have the same luck I did. If I could fault it at all, it would be the constant shifting of the armrests and backrest. Where to buy Although the footrest variant normally costs $539.99, it has been discounted to $469.99 on the official website in Black or White. In fact, the non-footrest variant is only $40 cheaper. On Amazon, it currently costs more at $499.99 links below. Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $469.99 (official website) Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $499.99 at Amazon US SIHOO provided a free sample without any review or pre-approval. Good to know This Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Making US citizens pay is a prominent tool? Joke of the week…
    • Price Drop: Save 86% on Microsoft Office 2021 Professional Plus lifetime digital license by Steven Parker Today's highlighted deal comes via our Apps + Software section of the Neowin Deals store, where you can save 86% on a lifetime license to Microsoft Office 2021 for Windows. This bundle is for families and small businesses who want classic Office apps and email. It includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Teams, and OneNote. A one-time purchase installed on 1 Windows PC for use at home or work. Lifetime license for MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Teams, & OneNote One-time purchase installed on 1 Windows PC for use at home or work Instant Delivery & Download – access your software license keys and download links instantly Free customer service – only the best support! Microsoft Office Professional 2021 (for Windows) includes: Microsoft Office Word Microsoft Office Excel Microsoft Office PowerPoint Microsoft Office Outlook Microsoft Office Teams Microsoft Office OneNote Microsoft Office Publisher Microsoft Office Access No faffing about with subscriptions, just classic apps that don't expire. Good to Know ONE-TIME PURCHASE INSTALLED ON 1 DEVICE Redemption deadline: redeem your code within 30 days of purchase Access options: desktop Full versions No subscriptions – no monthly/annual fees Version: 2021 Updates included* *Support for this version of Office ends on Oct 13, 2026 A lifetime subscription to Microsoft Office 2021 Professional normally costs $219.99, but this deal can be yours for just $29.97, that's a saving of $190. For full terms, specifications, and license info, click the link below. Get Microsoft Office Professional 2021 for just $29.97, or learn more Although priced in U.S. dollars, this deal is available for digital purchase worldwide. Support queries If you have queries or need support for any of the Neowin Deals, please use the contact form here. Neowin Deals are managed and sold by StackCommerce who represent Neowin on an affiliate basis. Why we post these deals We post these because we earn commission on each sale so as not to rely solely on advertising, which many of our readers block. It all helps toward paying staff reporters, servers and hosting costs. So for those that keep moaning and complaining, be thankful we're still online for you to even do that. Other ways to support Neowin Whitelist Neowin by not blocking our ads Create a free member account to see fewer ads Make a donation to support our day to day running costs Subscribe to Neowin - for $14 a year, or $28 a year for an ad-free experience Disclosure: Neowin benefits from revenue of each sale made through our branded deals site powered by StackCommerce.
    • The only reason I want to know where you from is because if you are not from the U.K, then why should you care what we in the U.K do or don't do? Racist I am not, I am fed up with the amount coming over here and feel they can come over here and think we need to support them. Do you know how much it costs this country to support these people coming over here? Even when we give them a place to live it is not good enough. We had a barge that was being used to house immigrants, oh but that was not good enough. A mate said to me at the time, when he was homeless, he would have been happy to live on the barge, instead of ending up sleeping on a bench on the beach. I am not scared to say what my family heritage is, unlike you who is scared to say where they are from or where they live. Father side U.S, mother side Wales, still have family living in the U.S. A mate who sadly died a few years ago, had a load of people from different races recording in his studio, I got on with all of them. Skin colour don't bother me, where they are from don't bother me. Religion don't bother me as long as they don't push it onto me and it is not crazy stuff. I am not religious. But if you are not living in the U.K, then why should you care if we are in the E.U or not? This the problem, too many people poking their noses into where it don't belong. But you believe what you believe, if you think I am racist, then be it, I really do not care. Just grow a pair
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