University sues student who 'studied too fast'

[Arpit]

my best friend went through a somewhat similar issue in canada when she completed all her degree requirements one term early. they didn't sue her but they wouldn't let her graduate because the student "had to be in school for 8 terms". she just made the best of it and went on a student exchange term to australia instead.

[ZakO]

Unless they aren't using a typical 4.0 scale, a 2.3 GPA sounds pretty crappy anyway.

In the Germany university grading scale 2.3 is above average (1 = very good, 5 = very poor / fail). The 4.0 scale is 'typical' in USA/Canada, not in many other places.

[ILikeTobacco]

In the Germany university grading scale 2.3 is above average. (1 = very good, 5 = very poor / fail)

A graduating GPA of a 2.3 is well below average for the USA. The average here is around 3.1 I believe. Important to note we have a different grading school. 1 is D(60-69%) and 4 is A(90-100%). However, for the average college student, that is a normal grade point average considering the time he took. Freshmen students do poorly usually. The first year of college is when the majority of dropouts happen. Considering the time schedule he was on, the grade seems about right since he wouldn't have had time to master any particular subject but just learned enough to pass the tests.

[DocM]

Youngest just turned 14 and has half the credits for his Bachelors already, but no sign of lawsuits yet.

[majortom1981]

"Pohl completed his turbo degree by dividing up all the simultaneous lectures with two friends and then swapping notes. At the same time, he completed an apprenticeship in a bank."

How did he pass some of the classes without actually being there? IF I read that line right had had friends attend classes for him? Colleges by me would not allow that. The colleges I attended you had to attend a certain amount of classes. You couldnt just take a test.

[DocM]

Testing out is commonplace here too - but you still have to pay for the credit.

[ILikeTobacco]

"Pohl completed his turbo degree by dividing up all the simultaneous lectures with two friends and then swapping notes. At the same time, he completed an apprenticeship in a bank."

How did he pass some of the classes without actually being there? IF I read that line right had had friends attend classes for him? Colleges by me would not allow that. The colleges I attended you had to attend a certain amount of classes. You couldnt just take a test.

You read it wrong. He took one class, his friends took another. They exchanged notes and then used the notes to study for exams to take tests that allowed him to not have to take the classes at all. In the USA, we have what are called CLEP tests in general ed classes. They are designed to test general subjects like math and english so a student doesn't have to waste their time in a regular classroom if they already know all of the material. In this case, I would assume the school offered a sort of CLEP test for all of its courses. If that is the case, it is the schools own fault.

[majortom1981]

Testing out is commonplace here too - but you still have to pay for the credit.

He cheated though. He had his friends attend classes for him

[ILikeTobacco]

Testing out is commonplace here too - but you still have to pay for the credit.

The cost for taking a CLEP and getting the credit is 1/3 the cost of taking the course at the school I went to. I would have done this to safe time and money if they would have offered core courses as CLEP tests.

[ILikeTobacco]

He cheated though. He had his friends attend classes for him

Thats not cheating if he wasn't ever enrolled in the class. It would be no different than him studing for the tests using google. Click on CLEP on this site and its the same thing for the USA.

http://www.free-test-online.com/clep-math-and-science/clep-calculus-tests

[majortom1981]

You read it wrong. He took one class, his friends took another. They exchanged notes and then used the notes to study for exams to take tests that allowed him to not have to take the classes at all. In the USA, we have what are called CLEP tests in general ed classes. They are designed to test general subjects like math and english so a student doesn't have to waste their time in a regular classroom if they already know all of the material. In this case, I would assume the school offered a sort of CLEP test for all of its courses. If that is the case, it is the schools own fault.

Yes but thats only available for general ed classes. IN actual degree classes you needed to have actually attended class. Most of my classes if you missed 3 classes you were automatically failed.

[ILikeTobacco]

Yes but thats only available for general ed classes. IN actual degree classes you needed to have actually attended class. Most of my classes if you missed 3 classes you were automatically failed.

That may have been true where you went but thats not the case here. If it were, he wouldn't have passed or got to graduate. They are not suing him for cheating and getting away with it, they are suing him because he didn't pay for courses because he was able to test out of them. There is a difference. Had he cheated in any way, the school would have pulled his degree in a heartbeat since it risks them losing accrediating if they don't crack down on it.

[neufuse Veteran]

"Pohl completed his turbo degree by dividing up all the simultaneous lectures with two friends and then swapping notes. At the same time, he completed an apprenticeship in a bank."

How did he pass some of the classes without actually being there? IF I read that line right had had friends attend classes for him? Colleges by me would not allow that. The colleges I attended you had to attend a certain amount of classes. You couldnt just take a test.

yeah I knew there was more to this then just he graduated early, basically he cheated by not attending the classes.. all the major universities around me attendance is required and they even make it part of the grade

[neufuse Veteran]

That may have been true where you went but thats not the case here. If it were, he wouldn't have passed or got to graduate. They are not suing him for cheating and getting away with it, they are suing him because he didn't pay for courses because he was able to test out of them. There is a difference. Had he cheated in any way, the school would have pulled his degree in a heartbeat since it risks them losing accrediating if they don't crack down on it.

technically he did cheat and possibly stole, to have someone go to a class for your to get the course work to study from, you are taking something everyone else is paying for away from the univeristy for free basically then using it to your own advantage... thus theft and cheating

[ILikeTobacco]

technically he did cheat and possibly stole, to have someone go to a class for your to get the course work to study from, you are taking something everyone else is paying for away from the univeristy for free basically then using it to your own advantage... thus theft and cheating

Read the article. It wasn't cheating or theft because he had permission to do it.

""We didn't get any freebies, and we agreed our plans in advance with the school," Pohl said."

[ILikeTobacco]

yeah I knew there was more to this then just he graduated early, basically he cheated by not attending the classes.. all the major universities around me attendance is required and they even make it part of the grade

He didnt get grades for courses. He got grades for exams that he took instead of the courses. Huge difference. He was allowed to, with the schools permission, to take the exams instead of the courses.

[ILikeTobacco]

...

...

Both of you really should read the article before making further comments claiming it was cheating.

"We didn't get any freebies, and we agreed our plans in advance with the school," Pohl said."

[Julius Caro]

this sounds so much like one of those stories everyone in the world would of said "Only in corporate greed america where you have to pay for school!" but oh wait, its not! it's in Germany!

in america he would have been sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. he was sued for ?3000

[neufuse Veteran]

He didnt get grades for courses. He got grades for exams that he took instead of the courses. Huge difference. He was allowed to, with the schools permission, to take the exams instead of the courses.

but the basis of their lawsuit is that he stole from them, hipocricy at it's best if they actually did grant permission

[neufuse Veteran]

in america he would have been sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. he was sued for ?3000

no he wouldn't of, they'd of sued for the value plus court / lawysers fees... courts don't just dish out larges sums of money without some type of backing... those outragious lawsuits you see are ones where they twist facts to get the numbers like the RIAA/MPAA saying one file share gave x thousand users a copy for free times the value to get some large number... technically the numbers are true values that COULD of been made, but we all know those people never would of bought it to start with... but that's another story for another topic

[Julius Caro]

I dont know what's CLEP, but in europe in certain universities/degrees, your entire grade boils down to whatever you get in the final exam, regardless of whether you attended class or not.

[Julius Caro]

no he wouldn't of, they'd of sued for the value plus court / lawysers fees... courts don't just dish out larges sums of money without some type of backing... those outragious lawsuits you see are ones where they twist facts to get the numbers like the RIAA/MPAA saying one file share gave x thousand users a copy for free times the value to get some large number... technically the numbers are true, but we all know those people never would of bought it to start with... but that's another story for another topic

what I meant to imply was that the cost of higher education in the US is HIGH, not that they would randomly come up with a high figure to sue him.

[neufuse Veteran]

what I meant to imply was that the cost of higher education in the US is HIGH, not that they would randomly come up with a high figure to sue him.

higher ed in the USA doesn't cost hundreds of thousands... you can easily go to a 4yr degree for under $20k at a public school (i am talking about degree, not room and board and all that other BS you COULD tack onto your education bill to stack it high)

[ILikeTobacco]

but the basis of their lawsuit is that he stole from them, hipocricy at it's best if they actually did grant permission

What he "stole" is not paying for the credits. University fees are more complicated than a flat fee. You pay the base credit tuition, which is what they seem to be suing over. If I were to take a CLEP test, I would have to pay for the test itself which range from around 60-120 dollar here, regardless of if I pass or fail. If I pass, I then have to pay the school I want to apply the credits to for the hours it is worth. At the school I went to, they charged $159 per credit hour as the base tuition. If the class was biology, you got charged another $50 for lab supplies for example. There are other fees they tack on like Gym, technology, etc. If they take and pass the CLEP test, the school only charges you for a fraction of the tuition cost. The extra fees, such as lab supplies, are waivered since you were never in the lab.

Obviously this is Germany and not the USA though so his situation could be entirely different, however since the school apperently agreed to his method of completing the course, he didnt cheat. They gave him the degree after all. What they didn't agree with is the amount of payment.

[neufuse Veteran]

What he "stole" is not paying for the credits. University fees are more complicated than a flat fee. You pay the base credit tuition, which is what they seem to be suing over. If I were to take a CLEP test, I would have to pay for the test itself which range from around 60-120 dollar here, regardless of if I pass or fail. If I pass, I then have to pay the school I want to apply the credits to for the hours it is worth. At the school I went to, they charged $159 per credit hour as the base tuition. If the class was biology, you got charged another $50 for lab supplies for example. There are other fees they tack on like Gym, technology, etc. If they take and pass the CLEP test, the school only charges you for a fraction of the tuition cost. The extra fees, such as lab supplies, are waivered since you were never in the lab.

Obviously this is Germany and not the USA though so his situation could be entirely different, however since the school apperently agreed to his method of completing the course, he didnt cheat. They gave him the degree after all. What they didn't agree with is the amount of payment.

yeah, I am going by the USA point of view, not ever going to a college in Germany so can't really speak for it