Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

By SekaiStory
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

There's nothing great about the Metro start screen.

And there?s nothing great about rolling over and playing dead to your competitors either, just to please a minor group of Neowinians. There's no denying that iOS and Android are encroaching on Windows territory.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

What's it doing and which version? It looks from Telltale's forum that users have been having problems with the game on multiple platforms.

I see reports that running it XP SP3 compatibility mode and unplugging any Xbox controllers works.

Compat mode didn't work. Error in exe on launch. I have not unplugged Xbox controller. That's the only thing that makes games playable for me on PC. I'm gonna break down and buy it for Xbox and get some Achievements I guess. It's an awesome interactive story/game. As good as the TV series.

And there?s nothing great about rolling over and playing dead to your competitors either just to please a minor group of Neowinians.

When you say competitors you have to be talking tablets and Metro will be great there. I want a surface. But Office 2013 is, well, Office. For most there's no compelling reason to go to 8 other than things most believe could have been in Win7 SP2. We really need some apps. My #1 health app is actually not being upgraded much, but will have Win8 and WP7/8. That will be reason enough for me. Need apps, and games.

Proficient

Anthonyd

Posted
Posted

No, they're forcing a tablet UI upon their desktop users because they're either too cheap to maintain 2 codebases or they just want a slice of the app pie. If one thing's became clear with Windows 8 it's that they don't give a toss about what their users want, it's for their benefit and their benefit only. There's nothing great about the Metro start screen.

They aren't forcing you to use a "tablet UI", you can rid of all the crap you want with 3rd party softwares that already exists for Windows 8.

Remember when techies used to love updates? To get into the new software, so they could see how things worked. Remember the excitement? Now everyone bitches about the littlest stupid things. :(

Remember when people on the internet were nice? That was a long time ago :>
Collaborator

Roxkis

Posted
Posted

Remember when techies used to love updates? To get into the new software, so they could see how things worked. Remember the excitement?

Yeah I was super stoked when the first builds of windows 7 leaked.

I can't say I feel the same excitement for windows 8 tho..

Grand Master

Noir Angel

Posted
Posted

And there?s nothing great about rolling over and playing dead to your competitors either, just to please a minor group of Neowinians. There's no denying that iOS and Android are encroaching on Windows territory.

Yeah, because there's simply no possible way to create a tablet OS without forcing all Windows users into the same paradigm, right?!

Mentor

blade1269

Posted
Posted

I've noticed there are many hate threads on Windows 8, with people downright disrespecting the OS. As an app developer for the Windows Runtime and daily user of the Release Preview with mouse and keyboard I want to do the opposite in this post and tell you why I love Windows 8.

UI

Windows 8 is all about change and that change is the Metro environment. While Metro is certainly touch-first, it works well with mouse/keyboard, and some apps look absolutely great.

Many people seem to hate how Microsoft crammed the ?Tablet UI? in our throats but I find it a clever move. No OS has changed how apps essentially worked on traditional PCs (windowed, resize buttons, dull controls, static icons,?). With the Metro UI, people will have to learn a lot of new gimmicks. Many people desperately want that start menu back, or want the Metro environment shut off. I don?t get them. People should embrace change if it?s for the better and give things a chance. I had trouble using the Developer Preview, but I?m blasting through the Release Preview now getting things done faster and loving some Metro style apps.

This day and age everything that?s different seems to be regarded as bad. I see friends automatically installing Firefox/Chrome without them being aware of IE9, I see friends going to Google instead of Bing. When I ask them why, they reply something along the lines of ?Internet Explorer sucks, Bing sucks?, without them knowing about any of the features. People are having similar reactions with Windows 8, not knowing what it is. The only thing they know is that a tablet running Windows 8 crashed during the Surface announcement, because that YouTube video went viral on Reddit or some other site. Microsoft isn?t cool, it?s disregarded and won?t be given a fair chance unless it has an Apple or Google logo. Microsoft barely makes it into the news and when it does it talks about ?Microsoft announced (x), trying to catch up to [apple product here]?, together with a lot of footage from the Apple product, and few of Microsoft.

I fear that it?s too late to change anything about that impression, partly because Microsoft hasn?t been very forthcoming to the general audience of Windows 8, and their corporate identity isn?t exactly inspiring.

On the note of the UI, it?s certainly premature but together with the pre-installed apps it?s pretty powerful. For now. Microsoft can?t wait another 3 years to update the framework or add features, but I think they know that. I?d love to see an improved file picker/save dialog, 2 snapped apps for large screens, a decent Metro desktop, and some improvements to built-in apps.

In my dreams, and this will never happen, I?d like better blending between desktop apps and metro apps. I?d love to see desktop apps being chromeless and appearing in the multitasking bar on the left, with the ability to close them by dragging them down. The taskbar and desktop mode should be removed and desktop apps just run on top of Metro apps.

I really love how people will be able to buy a PC, and thanks to the built-in apps/Flash be ready within minutes to get great experience (without needing to download an email client or Flash installer)

Back-end

As a developer who invested many hours in learning WPF and Silverlight for Windows Phone, I?m having a blast developing for Windows 8. I?m able to port lots of my code. WinRT neatly integrates with C# and feels really great to use. The APIs feel familiar and expose some great functionality like easily roam settings or set up data sharing. The templates are handy and often a good starting point. Rich online documentation is also super handy.

Hands-down, WinRT might be the coolest platform EVER. It feels like home if you?re familiar with WPF/Silverlight/XAML, is super powerful and really extensible, making me believe business apps (like Photoshop, 3DSMax, Office) can be rewritten to a Metro app. What surprised me most is how much online information is available, from tutorials to guidelines, blog posts to case studies to an entire collection of sample apps. Together with the Windows Store and possibly having the largest customer base on day 1 makes WinRT the coolest framework.

I?m seeing lots of badly written software out there, often with a crappy UI, others rely on Access/Win32 as environment/API. Many people [unlike us] don?t have lots of IT knowledge but have to learn awkward gimmicks or awkward UIs to get around. PCs are generally still hard to use for some and that?s why they?re transitioning to tablets. I think Windows 8 is, like iOS, easy to use and bringing the UI to PCs as primary interface might result in something great in the future. It?s on all levels better, easier, faster and more powerful than what iOS or Android has to offer today, and I really hope Metro becomes mainstream.

Bottom line about Apps is that there won?t be any bloatware-quality apps, and they will finally look good. The technologies Microsoft carefully crafted over the years can finally be put to use by a broad audience.

People don?t like change, some people don?t like the Windows 7 taskbar or Vista settings re-organization and want the classic Windows XP way back. Metro is a much more major change and many people will hate it and will have a hard time using it at first. I believe that eventually they?ll adapt and get a better, richer and faster experience. I really hope Metro style apps and ways of working become more refined and (in the longterm) mainstream (with less to no desktop apps anymore).

Windows 8 is a bold risk and even though the above is possible, I have my doubts and hate things as well. I?m wondering whether it will be marketed right so people will get to know it and the Intel vs ARM differences. I?m wondering whether OEMs will trash it with bloatware. I?m wondering whether Microsoft can flush out the remaining bugs, improve apps and get their identity and logo straight for Windows 8. (Official website shows classic Windows flag instead of window, Surface website has 2 Microsoft logos). I wonder whether Microsoft gets around the issue of updating their OS and framework)

Nevertheless I see Windows 8 as a phase, it?s the beginning of a new Windows, the beginning of a new era of PCs thanks to bringing this UI to the mainstream audience. It?s more than an iPad in every single way, and with a good form factor it can be a tablet device. I feel like I?m witnessing the release of the SNES, the iPhone. I feel like Windows 8 is going to change a lot of things, and I can?t wait to see if people will adapt and embrace it.

I really don?t get how people can outright say ?I hate it?, and sometimes not even give it a chance, while Microsoft clearly explained their reasons for doing certain things in their blog posts on the Start Screen and File Explorer. I really hope that those people will give it another shot and ultimately use desktop and Metro apps concurrently.

It?s 3AM so I?m going to stop writing and post this thread. It came out to be even lower than my lowest expectations (been thinking about this since the D9 announcement and I suck at writing). I?m no Microsoft fanboy, just a user who uses and loves some of Microsoft products and someone who feels like Windows 8 is a risk in the right direction.

Bear with my grammar and thanks for reading, do you also think Windows 8 is a step (or risk) in the right direction?

Apperantly you have never had to provide tech support for some non-tech people before.. Even worse over the phone... Metro with a touch screen will be awesome, but without one it is a nightmare..,( example, mom click on the start screen... Mom replies what is the start screen thingy?)

Experienced

Wyn6

Posted
Posted

Apperantly you have never had to provide tech support for some non-tech people before.. Even worse over the phone... Metro with a touch screen will be awesome, but without one it is a nightmare..,( example, mom click on the start screen... Mom replies what is the start screen thingy?)

Mom, look at the lower left of your keyboard. Do you see Ctrl? Look to the right of that. Do you see a symbol that looks like a flag or four little squares together? Press that. OR... Mom... move the mouse so that the pointer is in the lower left corner of your screen. What do you see? Okay. Click that.

Consumers in general aren't receptive to being told they're "wrong" for not liking a product. That kind of arrogance from Microsoft has dogged this project since the first build, and the end result will be a commercial disaster.

Er... um... I was asking Fehu a question. I'm not sure how your response relates to MY response.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

An OS designed for use on tablets. Something I don't want on my desktop.

Windows 8 isn't a tablet OS. It's a device neutral OS. It?s meant to accept all input methods equally without hassle. If it was a tablet OS, you wouldn't have a desktop, mouse, or keyboard shortcuts included.

Stay away from Windows 8 RT if you don?t want a tablet OS.

Experienced

Wyn6

Posted
Posted

if it's not broken why fix it? just because they made the metro UI, doesn't mean it's going to be greeted with open arms as MS thought. to be quite honest, the UI has been quite nice and I enjoyed the changes it took over the years. this is akin to pc games. Ghost Recon Future soldier. it's a hand held experience rather then the tactical experience we came to expect. at any rate. the UI has been the cornerstone to the OS and I've seen some great innovations such as customization's (windowblinds). also android and apple wouldn't overtake MS. they steal ideas from each other anyway.

when I enjoy something, let ME enjoy it the way I want to. I don't need anyone telling me how to enjoy windows

I can name a million things that weren't broke when someone attempted to improve upon them or move them along to the next phase of its evolution. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to name a million things.

Hey... if you'd be happy using the same user interface for computers as we have now in the year 2030 when everyone else has moved waaay beyond that... more power to ya. The rest of us, which includes Microsoft, will move on. And, nothing is going to change that short of the end of the world.

I mean, you could go back to monochrome screens and a keyboard. How about a nice Tandy? Or, a Commodore 64. No, wait. That was a color monitor. Sorry. ;)

Windows 8 is Vampires

Watching the game. Drinking some blood. True Blood. True.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

when I enjoy something, let ME enjoy it the way I want to. I don't need anyone telling me how to enjoy windows

Hate to tell you, but you've been using Windows the way Microsoft wanted you to for years. The Start Menu was also a take it or leave it approach. You cannot uninstall it or turn it off. Same thing with the Start Screen Dashboard. If you don't want to use it, than install RocketDock and Start8, and never look at the Start Screen again.

Grand Master

TheLegendOfMart

Posted
Posted

And there?s nothing great about rolling over and playing dead to your competitors either, just to please a minor group of Neowinians. There's no denying that iOS and Android are encroaching on Windows territory.

How does not having metro mean rolling over and playing dead?

Microsoft needs to hire some new analysts before they run the company into the ground.

Metro makes sense for mobile OSes, Windows Phone and Surface, the market that Microsoft are trying to brute force they way into.

IOS and Android are not encroaching on Windows territory, they are run on SUPPLEMENTAL devices, instead of walking over to the desktop and waiting for it to come on its easier just to pick up a tablet and check your email, or do a quick search on IMDB for that persons face you recognise but you don't know., etc.. the desktop computer is much more powerful and flexible than that, there's a reason why laptops and desktops sell triple figure millions a year.

Enthusiast

fehu

Posted
Posted

You had to show them how to open a program that is represented by a large, colored tile, a large, white icon, and text that reads, Mail, Messaging, Photos, Map, Video, etc.? Or, are you saying they couldn't figure out how to open a program from the desktop? Did you unpin everything from your taskbar, or delete all of your desktop icons, whichever you have? I've installed Win 8 on several of my friend's computers. Not one complaint and they all think it's pretty cool. Actually, the only issue was one of my friends' forgot that I told her about the -right-click navigation in many Metro apps and couldn't figure out how to pull up her open tabs in IE Metro.

When in the desktop they were unable to do anything else

Sure they can open IE and Explorer that were pinned on the taskbar, but nothing else. They simply can't find the start menu.

Then when i explained how it works, they had some problem but were almost able to do anything, at this point i asked them to restart windows. They searched frantically everywhere, but nobody was able to do it.

I showed them ho and averyone exclaimed "whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"

There's simple and there's intuitive, modern OS lack the second

A good ui can't force you to try any key near your hands and any pixel on the screen

Sorry for bad english, is not my primary language

Enthusiast

Windows Nashville

Posted
Posted

And there?s nothing great about rolling over and playing dead to your competitors either, just to please a minor group of Neowinians. There's no denying that iOS and Android are encroaching on Windows territory.

And Microsoft has hit upon the innovative strategy of destroying itself before its competitors can.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

How does not having metro mean rolling over and playing dead?

Microsoft needs to hire some new analysts before they run the company into the ground.

Metro makes sense for mobile OSes, Windows Phone and Surface, the market that Microsoft are trying to brute force they way into.

IOS and Android are not encroaching on Windows territory, they are run on SUPPLEMENTAL devices, instead of walking over to the desktop and waiting for it to come on its easier just to pick up a tablet and check your email, or do a quick search on IMDB for that persons face you recognise but you don't know., etc.. the desktop computer is much more powerful and flexible than that, there's a reason why laptops and desktops sell triple figure millions a year.

It means that Microsoft has an image of being old, outdated, slow. It?s something old people use at work. Staying with that image will mean eventual death of the company as new technology passes them by while they please a small set of people. If you come to think of it, the Windows UI has been essentially the same for almost 20 years old. In that time we have had many, many advancements that change the way we work, yet Windows hasn?t really changed to reflect those advancements. With Windows 8, it finally is getting the facelift it needs to remain competitive, and reflect on the technology we enjoy today.

And yes, iOS and Android are competitors. People use iPads as laptop replacements, and Android looks to want to take on the desktop space with some tablets of its own. They even have a mouse to use. If Microsoft doesn?t act now, they will find themselves left behind. There?s no question that Microsoft needed to act, and shed the ?clunker? image they have.

Metro is an ?all around? UI that given time, will mature and change the way we interact with technology. It?s a dynamic UI that adapts to the way we work. Personally, I?m tired, of the dull, static, grey UI we?re forced to deal with, grids of icons, and pointing and clicking on everything. There is not one law or rule in the books saying we cannot have a dynamic and interactive UI on the desktop. Just because you say so, doesn?t make it so. Having Metro in Windows opens it up to running on any hardware you can imagine. Tablets, wall mounted displays, transformers, all in one workstations, etc. without needing special software or anything else. The desktop is still there, and still runs all your classic apps. That?s a biggie. The Start Menu is nothing compared to that.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

How does not having metro mean rolling over and playing dead?

Microsoft needs to hire some new analysts before they run the company into the ground.

Metro makes sense for mobile OSes, Windows Phone and Surface, the market that Microsoft are trying to brute force they way into.

IOS and Android are not encroaching on Windows territory, they are run on SUPPLEMENTAL devices, instead of walking over to the desktop and waiting for it to come on its easier just to pick up a tablet and check your email, or do a quick search on IMDB for that persons face you recognise but you don't know., etc.. the desktop computer is much more powerful and flexible than that, there's a reason why laptops and desktops sell triple figure millions a year.

Over the past year, I have noticed more and more "higher ups" at my workplace using iPads than their laptops(which are not too shabby when it comes to thin+ light part). This for a workplace which uses a lot of Microsoft products (Exchange, SharePoint, Office, LCS, Windows, FEP etc.) I think Microsoft would rather have them use a Windows tablet.

Grand Master

trag3dy

Posted
Posted

It means that Microsoft has an image of being old, outdated, slow. It?s something old people use at work. Staying with that image will mean eventual death of the company as new technology passes them by while they please a small set of people. If you come to think of it, the Windows UI has been essentially the same for almost 20 years old. In that time we have had many, many advancements that change the way we work, yet Windows hasn?t really changed to reflect those advancements. With Windows 8, it finally is getting the facelift it needs to remain competitive, and reflect on the technology we enjoy today.

And yes, iOS and Android are competitors. People use iPads as laptop replacements, and Android looks to want to take on the desktop space with some tablets of its own. They even have a mouse to use. If Microsoft doesn?t act now, they will find themselves left behind. There?s no question that Microsoft needed to act, and shed the ?clunker? image they have.

Metro is an ?all around? UI that given time, will mature and change the way we interact with technology. It?s a dynamic UI that adapts to the way we work. Personally, I?m tired, of the dull, static, grey UI we?re forced to deal with, grids of icons, and pointing and clicking on everything. There is not one law or rule in the books saying we cannot have a dynamic and interactive UI on the desktop. Just because you say so, doesn?t make it so. Having Metro in Windows opens it up to running on any hardware you can imagine. Tablets, wall mounted displays, transformers, all in one workstations, etc. without needing special software or anything else. The desktop is still there, and still runs all your classic apps. That?s a biggie. The Start Menu is nothing compared to that.

You sound like you work for Microsoft and you're trying really really hard to sell a product you're not quite sure about yourself.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

You sound like you work for Microsoft and you're trying really really hard to sell a product you're not quite sure about yourself.

Unsure of? Buddy, I've been saying all along the need for change is there. Some people just blissfully ignore it. Touch technology and iPads aren't going away. Sorry.

Grand Master

trag3dy

Posted
Posted

Unsure of? Buddy, I've been saying all along the need for change is there. Some people just blissfully ignore it. Touch technology and iPads aren't going away. Sorry.

The way you always go on and on about why you think others should like it just reminds of a salesman. Even in how you replied to me.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

The way you always go on and on about why you think others should like it just reminds of a salesman. Even in how you replied to me.

I think a better way to discuss his argument is to provide a counter point instead of resorting to a border line personal attack. I also think anti-metro arguments should be more than "metro sucks", "i need start button" and "this tablet OS doesn't belong on the desktop".

Grand Master

trag3dy

Posted
Posted

I think a better way to discuss his argument is to provide a counter point instead of resorting to a border line personal attack. I also think anti-metro arguments should be more than "metro sucks", "i need start button" and "this tablet OS doesn't belong on the desktop".

Why? So you can try to tell us how we're doing it wrong? The reasons why people don't like the metro start screen have been listed many many times and you guys constantly gloss them over into "metro sucks".

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